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Running woes - high HR and awkward
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 2010-03-18 5:00 PM |
Member  139   Athens |  Subject: Running woes - high HR and awkwardHi all, I've never been much of a runner, most of my endurance background is casual swimming and cycling. My first tri (a sprint) was last fall in FL, I did OK on the swim and bike, but the running was the problem. Running is STILL the problem, and I'm signed up for two races so far and hoping to pick up two more and a half mary at the end of the season. I'm running 2x-3x a week on an indoor track. I was doing 3x consistently but my knee and shins didn't really like it much. I'm taping my shins now, which seems to help, but have minor meniscus damage in my right knee and don't know yet how aggressive I can get given that. So, here's the problems. 1. As soon as I break into even a light run, my HR jumps WAAAY up to 165-170 and stays there. Forget "conversational pace", I'm sucking wind. For reference, I don't get HR above 155 on the bike unless I'm really hammering or going up a steep hill. By about a mile, I'm running out of breath, and have to take a walk break. I read about people running with HR in the 140-150 range and it just boggles my mind. 2. Running just feels clumsy and jarring. I'm trying to keep my feet coming down under my center of gravity, but it still feels like I'm sinking all the kinetic energy into my joints rather than bouncing with it. I ran a little bit (2-3 miles a day) when I was in my early 20s, and don't remember it feeling anything like this. I suspect the problems are related. Any suggestions? My training logs for the past few weeks are online. HTFU is an acceptable answer, in fact it's the answer I'm hoping for, i.e., put in the volume and it will fix itself. On the other hand, I feel like I've got to be doing something wrong here. |
| 2010-03-18 5:15 PM in reply to: #2734433 |
Expert 1310 Alabama | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward Let me preface my advice, by the fact that I'm no running expert, but a couple of things jump out to me: |
| 2010-03-18 5:19 PM in reply to: #2734433 |
Champion 7595   Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward Yes, I would say that putting in the volume (increasing it conservatively) you will get better. But it sounds like you are going too fast too often. Slow down, as previous poster said. FWIW, when I run 2-3x/week I'm MORE, not less, likely to be injured (or at least start to feel little aches and pains during and after running). When I run 4-6x/week I generally feel better. ETA: And don't get fixated on your HR, and especially don't compare your HR with others. My suggestion that you are going too fast was not based on your HR, but on your statement that you are 'sucking wind'. Edited by Experior 2010-03-18 5:20 PM |
| 2010-03-18 5:20 PM in reply to: #2734433 |
Expert 774 | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward STFD. You should be working on time, not distance and running at a pace that may not allow you to have an easy conversation, but doesn't leave you gasping for air. Edited by greyg8r 2010-03-18 5:21 PM |
| 2010-03-18 5:28 PM in reply to: #2734433 |
Veteran 169 Oak Park, Il (Chicagoland) | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward My heart rate when running is right around 165,. I run right around a 9:30 pace. My heart rate on the bike is way lower, which is typical. But HR is really not comparable between people. If you are having trouble with breathing, slow down. Sucking wind is a sign you are running WAY too fast. I was in the 12-13 min pace when I started, and HR was up around 175, and very gradually increased distance, but did not try to run faster. As my running improved, my speed increased, but I did NOT force myself to run faster. I also went with a time based running program, not distance. My distance increases were just because my time gradually increased. Also, I NEVER ran before I started my tri training. I suggest trying to run slower purposely. I know this sounds odd, but in the long run it can help, especially if you are starting to get splints, etc. Worry more about good form, and try to have a midsole strike on your foot by shortening your stride, which can really help reduce the impact on your legs. Also make sure you have the right shoes. If you have not done it, go to a running specialty store and get fitted. DO NOT go to sportsmart, wal-mart, etc. Those people don't know jack about running. A proper shoe can make WORLDS of difference. I had shin splints galore till I got fitted with a motion control shoe - have not had any since that. Edited by trigertas 2010-03-18 5:35 PM |
| 2010-03-18 5:30 PM in reply to: #2734462 |
Veteran 169 Oak Park, Il (Chicagoland) | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward greyg8r - 2010-03-18 5:20 PM STFD. You should be working on time, not distance and running at a pace that may not allow you to have an easy conversation, but doesn't leave you gasping for air. X2^^ |
| 2010-03-18 5:36 PM in reply to: #2734433 |
Master 2327 North Alabama | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward Just slow down and take it easy. Keep it conversational and don't worry about your pace. We all want to be 5min/mi runners, but it takes time. Just slow down and it'll come to you. If it's been a while since you ran, you just need the time back. Also, 2 things: 1. check your shoes. do you need new ones since you're worried about shin splints? How old are they? Are you positive they're correct for your gait and foot style? 2. Could your shin splints be because you're going out too far too fast? Are you following the 10% rule to increasing your runs? Check those things and your fitness will improve. |
| 2010-03-18 6:06 PM in reply to: #2734433 |
Master 1346 Gold Coast | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward Just to add my opinion....Ive been running for years and years and Im really not a fast runner but I do a lot of it. Running and tri are secondary to other sports for me, but I am fit, and my HR usually sits at around 160 when Im running, even at that "conversational" pace. I really wouldnt worry about that (its also MUCH lower on the bike). As far as shin problems go - can you find an off road/grass track that might be easier on you impact wise? I really can't help with running style though I'm afraid, except to say that I suspect time and volume WILL help and also getting fitted for the right pair of running shoes will definitely help too. Good luck! |
| 2010-03-18 6:09 PM in reply to: #2734433 |
Member 139 Athens | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward Thanks all. The shoes are fairly new, got them last fall from a well-recommended running store, they did a gait analysis and recommended something with moderate support. I'll slow down -- which is fairly difficult for me actually, I have trouble running slower than about 10 min mile -- and see if that improves things. I suppose I'm expecting too much too soon. Also it sounds like I'd be better off running more often. I imagine if I do this I should keep my total weekly volume the same and redistribute it among more days? |
| 2010-03-18 8:52 PM in reply to: #2734433 |
Veteran 169 Oak Park, Il (Chicagoland) | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward You can try an interval approach. Run for 3 min/walk 1 min. That will give your HR a break, as well as your knees/shins. Do that interval 5 times, then 6, then 7. That will get you 3 runs a week. The next week, repeat. If you are ready to increase duration, then add another interval to the counts, so you do 6, 7, 8 intervals. After you get to 10 intervals, increase you running time by a minute and start the interval ladder progression again. Rinse and reuse. This progression worked wonders for me. If you are feeling real sore, don't be afraid to skip a session and let the body recover. Don't worry about distance or pace. Edited by trigertas 2010-03-18 8:53 PM |
| 2010-03-18 9:45 PM in reply to: #2734770 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward With the info given, this is what i would do in your shoes (he he). Take a few days OFF of running, ice daily. if the shoes have more than 300-400 miles on them or you walk in them a lot outside of running, check into a new pair. Get off the indoor track, they are typically fairly hard (if its a gym track and not an indoor compition track its going to be even harder). And the tighter turns are doing nothing to help. get outside (or heck even a tredmill), trails or grass if you can. start over and slowly build milage, running at whatever pace allows you to finish and not feel flattened. slow down a bit. 8-9 min miles sounds WAY too fast for where you are. some of my runs are in the mid 8 min range and i'm racing around 5:30-40 per mile. slow down. start with 2-3 20 min runs the first week or two. after that is comfortable, add in another 15 min run, and then lengthen that the next week. get used to 4 per week. then lengthen out the runs a bit (again dont add a ton per week). assuming there is not something else wrong, this slow build will get you running more, moreoten, and hopefully with less issues. |
| 2010-03-18 10:02 PM in reply to: #2734433 |
Expert 1138 Texas (Houston area) | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward You have gotten some really good advice here. The one thing I didn't see was making an effort to contol your breathing. I saw that somewhere online and it helped me a lot. Inhale for 2 steps and exhale for 2 steps. Simple and it works. |
| 2010-03-18 10:59 PM in reply to: #2734861 |
Veteran 169 Oak Park, Il (Chicagoland) | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward newbz - 2010-03-18 9:45 PM Get off the indoor track, they are typically fairly hard (if its a gym track and not an indoor compition track its going to be even harder). And the tighter turns are doing nothing to help. get outside (or heck even a tredmill), trails or grass if you can. start over and slowly build milage, running at whatever pace allows you to finish and not feel flattened. AMEN! Those indoor tracks are almost always over concrete/cement, which is just about the worst surface you could possibly run on. I always run on the streets by me instead of sidewalks because the streets are blacktop, which is significantly softer than concrete. And if you need to JUST WALK to build up the joints, especially if you have not been running regularly. On days you are not running, walk for half an hour or more just to build the joints and bones. The skelo-musculature systems take much, much longer to build up than cardio does, so take your time. |
| 2010-03-18 11:10 PM in reply to: #2734923 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward trigertas - 2010-03-18 9:59 PM The skelo-musculature systems take much, much longer to build up than cardio does, so take your time. this is one of the biggest reasons people get hurt when newer to running, cardio fitness improves and they start trying to run harder sooner than they should. On a side note to the OP, part of what makes elite, or faster runners look so effortless and not awkward when running is due to the huge amount of time most of them spend running. As you do something more and more, your body adapts to and becomes better at it. Its jsut like anything else, the more you do it, the more effortless and natural it becomes. |
| 2010-03-18 11:35 PM in reply to: #2734433 |
Veteran 295 | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward Yes, definitely don't compare heart rates. I learned that fast after posting on here. Everybody's zones are different. Although my heart rate averages around 183 for running..I feel comfortable and not out of breath. I still feel like my rate is extremely high compared to every other person on this site who has listed their's. I struggle to stay in Zone 3 towards the end of 1 hours runs 188-190 range. I also know it has nothing to do with fitness as I'm in really good shape. It seem like you just need to pace yourself better....Also realize your heart rate may be higher with higher temperatures which I learned this week. |
| 2010-03-19 12:31 AM in reply to: #2734433 |
Member 139 Athens | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward Again, thank you all. Yes, I think my cardio fitness far outpaced my connective tissue gains here. I hate the thought of cutting back on intensity, but I'd rather run for the next 15 years instead of burning out in the next 15 weeks. I wish I'd known about the track, I thought they were supposed to be easy on the joints! I'm not a fan of treadmills, ran on one for a year and found I got very good at running on a treadmill but couldn't handle any actual running. But there's a nice blacktop bike path next to grass and plenty of trails in the area to work on. |
| 2010-03-19 8:00 AM in reply to: #2734433 |
Master 2158 | Subject: RE: Running woes - high HR and awkward Go to throw in here. As a recent running convert (last 3-5 years) I found that when I started, it sucked. i would try to runat what seemed comfortable, but really wasn't. I was going too fast. Although going slower will most likely feel less mechanically comfortable, it will help some. Focus on your exertion, you should be able to get a sentence or two out from time to time. After you build up, and your body gets used to it (skeleto-muscular), then you will be able to work on fun stuff like speeding up. Good luck, and keep on running! |
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