General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2010-03-22 11:40 AM

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.


2010-03-22 11:47 AM
in reply to: #2740230

Veteran
288
100100252525
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy

My LT and speed are similar to yours, I'm not real experienced but I would have taken the first lap out faster for sure plus keep the average HR closer to LT around 160 thru out the race then hoped I could hold out at the end. Generally I try to stay as close to LT as possible without bonking but that maybe risking it.



Edited by rockrunner 2010-03-22 11:49 AM
2010-03-22 12:19 PM
in reply to: #2740230

New user
50
2525
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy

Negative splitting is not a bad strategy generally.  However, if you had a specific goal to break 1:30 (6:52 pace) by running a negative split, with the first half at 7:10 pace, then that isn't so great because it requires a second half pace of 6:34, which 36 seconds per mile faster.   In my opinion, the best strategy for a half marathon when you have a specific time goal is even split or a slight negative split, like 5 seconds per mile faster (at most) over the second half.  Since you had gas left in the tank at the end I think you can definitely be more aggressive in your pacing strategy next time.

2010-03-22 12:24 PM
in reply to: #2740342

Champion
11989
500050001000500100100100100252525
Philly 'burbs
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy
trunner400 - 2010-03-22 1:19 PM

   In my opinion, the best strategy for a half marathon when you have a specific time goal is even split or a slight negative split, like 5 seconds per mile faster (at most) over the second half. 



Me too, for any race. I try to stay at or a few seconds faster than my targeted average pace. I do not believe in the "banking time" concept. I know some people really like the idea of going out fast in case something happens later in the race that causes you to slow down. I've found that what causes me to slow down more than anything else is going out too fast.
2010-03-22 12:30 PM
in reply to: #2740342

Master
2021
2000
Alpharetta, GA
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy
trunner400 - 2010-03-22 1:19 PM

Negative splitting is not a bad strategy generally.  However, if you had a specific goal to break 1:30 (6:52 pace) by running a negative split, with the first half at 7:10 pace, then that isn't so great because it requires a second half pace of 6:34, which 36 seconds per mile faster.   In my opinion, the best strategy for a half marathon when you have a specific time goal is even split or a slight negative split, like 5 seconds per mile faster (at most) over the second half.  Since you had gas left in the tank at the end I think you can definitely be more aggressive in your pacing strategy next time.



Agreed. An even split pace is your best bet to reach your goal. I ALWAYS tend to neg split runs, so if you are on pace to hit your target by an even split, then that last .50-.25 of a mile where you are hammering to the finish should either bring you in right on target or just under.

2010-03-22 12:53 PM
in reply to: #2740230

Pro
3906
20001000500100100100100
Libertyville, IL
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy

Personally I would start working after about 4-5 in and gradually pick up the pace.  With your paces, I think that 710 for 7 miles is waaay too conservative.  I would generally try and stay 10-15 seconds away from uncomfortable and then make it hurt with that last two holding on for dear life.



2010-03-22 1:12 PM
in reply to: #2740230

Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy
Ditto the others.  Close to even is the best strategy (for a marathon as well).  Your risk increases the closer you get to there as you may "blow up" and end up with a huge positive split, so shooting for a slight negative split tends to be the "safer" route.  But that's an awfully steep drop for your times.  Unless that's impacted by the course (uphill/into wind, etc.), you probably should have been running around 6:50s out of the gate.  Certainly no slower than ~7:00s for the first few miles and then dropping to goal pace much faster.

If you are looking for a specific time, I wouldn't worry about HR much.
2010-03-22 1:13 PM
in reply to: #2740459

Master
1610
1000500100
Kirkland, WA
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy
jszat - 2010-03-22 10:53 AM

Personally I would start working after about 4-5 in and gradually pick up the pace.  With your paces, I think that 710 for 7 miles is waaay too conservative.  I would generally try and stay 10-15 seconds away from uncomfortable and then make it hurt with that last two holding on for dear life.



x2 - races hurt.  For a half, I am definitly pushing my self the whole time, but obviously have a lot left in the tank. . until mile 10 or 11, when it catches up to me and I am just holding on and trying to keep a similar pace! 

This seemed to work for me during the  marathon too, except it felt like a breeze until mile 20, and miles 21-24 were like death, and then I knew I could finish   first half and 2nd half of marathon were within :30 sec of each other. 
2010-03-22 2:01 PM
in reply to: #2740230

Expert
1087
1000252525
Portland
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy

My high school track coach used to HATE when athletes would "weenie dog it" meaning they would conserve in the beggining JUST so they could have a big finish.  Whenever I've raced I've always tried to "earn" my PR.  This meaning I pushed myself slightly out of my comfort zone (that I KNOW I could finish the race in).  In a half Mary (which I haven't done one YET, but plan on it in a few weeks), I'm thinking that will get me to about 10-11 miles.  This is where the "earn" comes from....  Those last 2.1 miles you really have to hold on and dig deep.

I know you could blow up and just totally bonk the end, but I hate the thought of finishing and feeling like I could have given more.  Its the only way to reach your full potential, (IMO).

2010-03-22 3:03 PM
in reply to: #2740230

Veteran
812
500100100100
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy
UrsusAdiposimus - So I am curious, what do you guys do for your 1/2 marathon pacing strategy?


I do the first mile at about 15 seconds slower than my goal pace to get warmed up and so that the crowds dissipate a bit. 

Then, I run the rest at very close to my target pace until the last two miles.  At that point, if I have reserve energy, I go for it. 
2010-03-22 3:11 PM
in reply to: #2740230

Runner
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy
Here's my half marathon strategy (which happens to be the same strategy for every race):

Just run.

Seriously, I don't pay attention to paces, and I don't slow down/speed up based off the numbers. I run based on how I feel, and a desire to pass people.


2010-03-22 3:36 PM
in reply to: #2740230

New user
50
2525
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy
If you have a specific time goal that you really want to make, then I think it's important to go for that even pace or slight negative split.  This will maximize the chance of making that goal.

If you don't care as much about a certain specific time goal and just want to run as fast as possible, then I agree that it is better to forget about splits and run by feel.  This will increase the chance of a bonk, but also increases the chance of a breakthrough (sort of like pulling the goalie in a hockey game).

This is what I did in my last last half mary and I ended up going over 3 minutes faster than I had originally planned (with a negative split to boot).  I did the same thing in my last mary and I ended up paying for it.
2010-03-22 3:45 PM
in reply to: #2741124

Runner
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy
trunner400 - 2010-03-22 4:36 PM

If you have a specific time goal that you really want to make, then I think it's important to go for that even pace or slight negative split.  This will maximize the chance of making that goal.

If you don't care as much about a certain specific time goal and just want to run as fast as possible, then I agree that it is better to forget about splits and run by feel.  This will increase the chance of a bonk, but also increases the chance of a breakthrough (sort of like pulling the goalie in a hockey game).

This is what I did in my last last half mary and I ended up going over 3 minutes faster than I had originally planned (with a negative split to boot).  I did the same thing in my last mary and I ended up paying for it.


I disagree.

I often have a time goal. But I don't use that goal to determine how to run my race, because the time is going to be whatever it's going to be.

And it does not necessarily increase the likelihood of a bonk. I have bonked all of twice in races, and I can directly say I was not as prepared for those races as I should have been. Assuming you train this way, it works quite well.
2010-03-22 3:53 PM
in reply to: #2740999

Pro
4277
20002000100100252525
Parker, CO
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy
Scout7 - 2010-03-22 2:11 PM Here's my half marathon strategy (which happens to be the same strategy for every race): Just run. Seriously, I don't pay attention to paces, and I don't slow down/speed up based off the numbers. I run based on how I feel, and a desire to pass people.

THIS

It's been a long time since I have PR'd in a running race but I do know that anytime I was going for a PR my strategy was to go out at a pace I wanted to hold for that distance.  I didn't have a heart rate monitor or know anything about LT back then but I had some pretty decent results (sometimes not so decent).  Data can help in the training but come race day your body will tell you how to run!
2010-03-22 4:06 PM
in reply to: #2740230


1072
10002525
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy
My old high school track coach used to say,"Go out as fast as you think you can and then pick up the pace"

When I followed this, I found it works as long as you are honest with yourself when figuring out the "going out as fast as you think you can" pace. If you have judged your fitness level correctly and trained for the distance to pace yourself well from the start, you have enough left to push near the end to get the the best possible time you are capable of in the race and leave nothing on the course..
2010-03-22 4:12 PM
in reply to: #2740999

Pro
3906
20001000500100100100100
Libertyville, IL
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy

Scout7 - 2010-03-22 3:11 PM Here's my half marathon strategy (which happens to be the same strategy for every race): Just run. Seriously, I don't pay attention to paces, and I don't slow down/speed up based off the numbers. I run based on how I feel, and a desire to pass people.
i can agree with this to an extent.  there should be a gameplan loosely on when to make it really hurt and hold on.  in general terms, i personally will keep it strong and steady for the first few miles but not near unsustainable obviously and negotiate with myself based on how i feel on when i am going to try and open it up.  that is, breaking a race down into segments can be helpful for race strategy.  that said, if i am feeling fine in the context of that plan and faster than perceived goal pace, by all means i will ride it out but keeping the level of exertion for that point of the race in mind i.e. getting the first few miles in aggressive but not overzealous, then notching up level of discomfort when i feel i am in range to keep the jalopy flying and then bring er in for a crash landing hopefully.  so there should be a plan but i agree that it doesnt need to be based on time or HR (which i stopped using a few seasons back)



2010-03-22 4:13 PM
in reply to: #2740230

Expert
1116
1000100
Thornton, CO
Subject: RE: Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy
I think the idea of an even (slight negative) split for half or full mary is great, IF you're dealing with a flat course, in which case your heart rate should be pretty steady throughout as well if your nutrition/hydration is right.  Once you get to a course with hills you're not going to want to maintain that same pace for each mile.  If you keep an even pace when one mile is 300ft of elevation loss, and another is 300ft of elevation gain, then you did one of two (or both) things wrong: either, went too slow on the downhills, or went too fast on the uphills.

I don't see a problem with doing a 30-60second/mile slower pace during one mile and then doing a 30-60second faster pace during another mile if the terrain dictates.  I think the most important thing with any pacing strategy is to take the course topography into consideration. 

You may need to "bank time" early on if the first half is a negative elevation change and the second half has overall elevation gain.  It's great to hit the half way point below half your goal time, it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but the course doesn't always allow that.  Try doing that with a course like Pikes Peak Marathon, 7,815ft elevation gain in the first half, then you turn around at the top and go back down for the second half.  I doubt you'll be able to 'bank time' during the first half of that. (yes, that race is an extreme, but it illustrates the point).
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Please tear apart my Half Marathon pacing strategy Rss Feed