Minimum Long Bike in prep for first HIM...again minimum

you need to hit the bike a lot harder than that... that 2:41 on the bike is almost a 21 MPH average.

I don't really like to flat-out say it's not gonna happen... but it is really, really unlikely.  I wouldn't worry so much about your running... you need to hit that bike, hard.

Looking for similar numbers at Lonestar in 1 month, I think I have had 3-4 50 mile rides already and more scheduled.  3 x 60 minute interval rides during the week and one 3+ hr ride on the weekend.  Edit: would have had more long rides but due to weather, they were hour interval rides vs. long rides.

Not sure what I would consider mininimum requirement though.

I guess thats kind of like how many 20+ mile runs do you need for marathon training, depends on what kind of results you want and how your training plan is structured.

Edited by dalessit 2010-03-26 7:55 AM

Good luck with Eagleman!

I am going to survive my first HIM this fall... Muskoka 70.3

the bike is going to be BRUTAL... very hilly

I wouldn't be as concerned with the minimum distance, but I would say get on the bike much more if you want to hit your goal time. Like at least 4x rides per week. Two tempo rides of 1 hour, one hill ride, and one long ride.

Two rides over 40 may be OK, two over 50 would be better. With ten weeks to go you should be able to increase your long ride by 3 miles a week and get there.

Edited by Bossman 2010-03-26 8:32 AM

Mike, I don't know if you're interested or not but this is the plan that I'm *trying* to follow.  See attached, I found it on the web somewhere and it looks pretty good, slightly on the aggressive side, I'm assuming you'll need something like this if you want to average 21mph on the bike.







Attachments
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Eagleman-Torture.xls (37KB - 56 downloads)

Sorry, Mike, but you put "minimum" in the subject line twice ... and then put in a goal time? (and not a modest one)

10 weeks is plenty of time to stuff in some great bike volume and quite a few long rides--if you want your goal time.

If you want minimum, then you could probably stagger your way through a half-iron without much training. Unhappily, with some recovery time, but you could do it.

So which do you want?

If you're worried about your run I would train on the bike.  It might be a lot harder than you think to run a good 13.1 after 56 miles at a pretty good clip if you only do 2x40 miles.  I agree that the bike should be 4x/week, unless you're already a fantastic rider.

Just looking at the last month of your riding, you've averaged around 14-15 miles per hour.
Your goal is to average almost 21 miles per hour?

Also your runs have been averaging between 9:30/mile and 12:30/mile.
Your goal is to average 9:33s, correct?

And out of order, but your swims have averaged 2:04/100yd to 2:49/100yd.
Your goal is to average 1:49/100yd?

To be honest I think you should re-evaluate your goals.
 
It's hard to answer your original question since we're not sure if you are asking the minimum to reach your goal (of nearly 21mph) or to simply finish.
 

Minimum would be different according to your level of bike fitness. I was very close to your expected times in my last HIM and finished just a few seconds over 5:30. I did maybe 4 or so rides of about 35 miles and one ride of about 60 miles. However, the guy I rode the 60 miler with was slower and he had 3 flats during the ride. So the ride was not a continuous effort. I ended up averaging just a bit over 20 mph for the HIM. Not great, but considering the very minimal amount of biking I did last year it wasn't that bad either. The thing is, I had a base of about 30+ years of biking so it takes almost no training for me to perform at that level. In fact, since the HIM last August I haven't even been on my bike and I could very likely go out and ride 40 miles at 20 mph on my first ride.

So your minimum long bike would depend on where you were to begin with. Is averaging 21 mph normal for you or is it a stretch? Is the bike course at Eagleman conducive to faster times?

And do you really have the fitness to run 2:05 off the bike? Are you normally running a HM in 1:45-1:50, because you will lose some time in a HIM? Bike and run fitness go together. Even though my bike ws OK in the HIM, I think my lack of training contributed to my run being slower than it should have been. I only ran 2:01 in the HIM, but just a few weeks later I ran a HM in 1:41. If I had trained more on the bike I may have both improved my bike time and run times.

Though in his defense, the NoVA area is fairly hilly with lots of lights, so it's hard to determine what you're "actually" training at and compare it to the Eagleman course.  The Eagleman course is pancake flat (I think I read an elevation change of 15 ft for the entire course) so that may change his speed compared to his training rides.  Though I do agree, the goals seem pretty steep.

For me it's my first HIM so I'm just looking to finish.  I've got some secondary goals (like sub 5) that probably aren't realistic but I'm going to try anyway.

Typically yes.  Its flat as flat can be. But the wind and heat can take a lot out of the athlete.

Not to pile on here but if you are asking about a minimum input for and aggressive output, then maybe you need to readjust your goals.  2 bikes of over 40 miles isn't going to get your a 2:41 for 56 miles unless you are already riding north of 21. 

You have 10 weeks left which is PLENTY of time to jumpstart your training and put in some serious volume.  I would likely try to get in about 50-75 miles a week for the next 10 weeks.   To give you some perspective, I rode a 2:33 at Gulf Coast last year with over 1000 miles on the bike going in. 

Agree Mike.  I've heard Eagleman is fast, but it is still pushing it.  It is good to be aggressive and have a goal though IMO.

Sounds like you already understand you are at a disadvantage from your post. 

Just keep in mind though this that when you hit that Oly up in mid-September last year,  your volume leading up to it was almost double what it is now and now you are doing a race twice as long and your volume is half as much.  It's going to be tough.

To take a different approach, is there something seriously preventing you from tacking on more bike mileage?  Can you wake up a little earlier.  IMO, if you can squeeze a weekly 30 and 40 miler in during the week and then get your long bikes during the weekend to 50-60 you could make big strides.  Problem is that 40 miles is not a long bike and you should be able to hit that on a regular weekly ride.  Even if you get your power to the point where you are hitting the speed you want, your endurance is a big question mark right now.  56 miles is going to seem pretty far to you right now...never mind at 21mph.  Just trying to take a real look for you but your rides aren't even close to being long enough right now.

Anyway, it's all been said.  I was just trying to take a look to see what you can do with the cycling....I won't even address the run.

^^ I agree. Get some time on the trainer if time is limiting you. But your temp ride should be 20-25 miles and long ride increasingly over 40. You should easily be pushing 100+ miles a week.

I'm a short courser, but mu husband did his first with one long ride of about 58 miles (rest all under 40, typically 20-35); one long swim of 30 minutes; and a lot of running.

He finished in 4:50...but blew up BADLY on the run. Which he blames on a lack of bike training. He averaged about 22 mph, and felt fine...but he was shooting to run well under 7 mm, and ended up with a 1:40 half. Which is well OVER.

So I'd say ride more, not to better your bike necessarily...but to help you not fall apart at the end.


Edited by mmrocker13 2010-03-26 5:22 PM

I appreciate your thoughtful responses.  I will be carving out the time to do at least 50 miles twice in the next 4 weeks.

(Side note: I'm bummed.  Liver proteins in my blood.  Further doctoring needed).

I was able to do a 2:38 bike split (with a lot left for the run) at my first HIM with 3 rides over 35 and a total of four months of cycling/triathlon training; one 50, one 60, and one 72 in consecutive weekends ending one month out. However, I was already pretty fit from playing a lot of different sports, I have a fairly good body composition for triathlon/cycling (6'0 155lbs, huge leg muscles), and a decent carbon tri bike with a wheelcover and aero helmet. So I'd say it's definitely doable with a good bike and a knack for cycling.

Don't want to beat a dead horse, but for what it's worth, I've put up pretty much the same bike split as that at an Oly three weeks before my PR HIM and was nowhere near that avg speed for the half...did around 21 mph for the Oly but only just over 18 mph for the half.  But you'll have a better idea where you'll be for an HIM bike split once you've done a couple 50 milers.

I had a lot of bike prep, and a TON of run prep, leading into my 2008 White Lake Half.  Even at that, I had a 48 swim (lousy swimmer), 2:44 bike (20.5mph), and a 2:08 run.  I cooked the bike and my quads were toast for the run.  I had six rides over 50 miles in the 2 months leading up to it, and 2 more over 40.  I would definitely hit one over 50, with a run of at least 6 miles right off the bike.

Minimum? .... I am not the guy to ask ... have never done a HIM. Bu that seems a little light. I am also training for Eagle this year, my first HIM. Bike is my weak link ... I am genetically similar to pencil-legged fowl (chickenlegs . But I think you need a lot more bike... I'm doing a 3+hour ride almost weekly since about mid-Feb. 

Last year I rode 1250 miles total , and finished my season at Nation's Tri at 19 MPH on the bike and had a pretty good run, but my pace was nowhere near my fastest half-marathon pace. (Hmmmmmm get faster on my run by biking more, I think to myself...) This year I'd like to go 20 MPH at Eagle and finish in 5:45, and have been biking a lot compared to last year. Since January 1, I have about 750 miles on the bike, most on the trainer (where I give myself 16.7 miles per hour of spinning), and have done five rides of more than three hours in the last eight weeks. I'm building to a 5:45 ride in April ... the length of my race .... and then will start backing off a little for Frederick HM, COlumbia and Eagle.


Are we really ten weeks out? Wow . See you out there, bro.

its not the long ride you need to be worried about at this point, its your volume.

one long ride a week on 4-5 hours of riding is very very diff than a 2:30 long ride on 8 hours a week (or whatever your levels are).

I only went over 3 hours maybe 3 times total last year, but my bike volume was WAY up, 1-2 hours almost daily, with two rides in the 2-2:30 range.

that did a lot more for my riding than one longer ride.

personally if you are good to go as far as comfort on the bike, i think volume and intensity needs to be your focus.

if you have a trainer and time is limited, get on and ride anytime you can. a long ride without the overall training load is not going to do much.

For someone that has had the bike fit/comfort issues you do, and going into a flat half, you need to get on your bike a LOT. do not underestimate how much a flat course can wreck your back if you are not comfortable on your bike. Unlike a rolling course you will be in your aerobars a LOT more.

something else to consider.

If you want to be able to bike 21mph and run after that, you need to be in shape to do something like 23mph for that distance, because you're going to really need to dial it back to not tank the run.