General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Training pace versus race pace Rss Feed  
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2010-04-06 11:15 AM

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Subject: Training pace versus race pace
I'm hoping to do my first HIM in the fall, and I'm trying to think about paces for each leg. (Leading ultimately to a hopeful finishing time.) In training thus far, I'm seeing performance on this level:

Swim - 1000 yards in 19:30
Bike - in my sprints I'm able to hold ~20 MPH and hoping to increase that. My current training has been on a trainer so I'm not sure what my actual road speed is. From experience, I tend to hold 20-23 MPH on the flats.
Run - I did my first 13.1 mile training run this weekend with 8:45 min/mile. I should note that I was fighting a 20 MPH head wind for part of that. I'm hopeful that my upcoming half mary will be around 8:30 pace.

I realize that once I get to the run, I'm not likely to hold a pace that I see when I run 13.1 fresh. I'm not sure how much my bike will suffer from the swim.

How should I go about setting my pace goals?

-Kirk



2010-04-06 11:21 AM
in reply to: #2771282

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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
start training, and adjusting goals as you get closer;-)

swim will be pretty easy to nail down through training,

bike, start riding, a lot, and watch how the rides go. for me, i did a lot of 2-3 hours rides at or just over HIM intensity, and through that i had a very good idea where the half would fall.

If you're not sure about how hard you are riding, do a short warm up, and then ride around the goal time (maybe a ibit longer to make up for no swim before), and jump off into a 4-6 mile run at goal pace and see hwo things feel. if you are dead at the end of that, adjust pacing and nutrition, repeat a few weeks later.

that should give yo ua good idea of how the bike/run is looking coupled with open run times.
2010-04-06 11:25 AM
in reply to: #2771282

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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
Or you could take a more structured approach by doing some field testing to estimate your threshold paces/HR and train based on a percentage of those. Race paces can then be dictated by your current fitness level in the few weeks prior to the event. You can do a race rehearsal at those paces, combined with bricks at target paces as well to make sure you're not going out too hard on the bike.

lots more details than that, but that's just a nutshell.
2010-04-06 11:38 AM
in reply to: #2771282

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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
Thanks for the tips! The training program I'm following has a number of 2X and 3X bricks along the way, which can certainly serve to help me estimate my paces. Also, everything is based on HR zones, and I've become familiar with how each zone feels and how to pace myself during my training.

Coupling the bike and run will be interesting. I have a few other events scheduled for the summer which may help there as well. I would REALLY like to hit the 5 hour mark, but I need to keep my expectations in check.

-Kirk

2010-04-06 11:40 AM
in reply to: #2771406

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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
if you are training with HR, just like with power, race your zones and let the speeds fall where they do that course that day.

i've raced at my threshold power in amny tris with VERY diff final speeds.
2010-04-06 11:41 AM
in reply to: #2771324

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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
Continue to train and then when you are about a month or so out set some benchmark training field tests (such as a 1,000 yard swim TT, a 20 mile bike TT and a 10k or longer run) to get a sense of where you stand at that moment.  Do not do them all on the same day.  Allow a few days between each hard effort.

From those you can set some realistic goals of a range where you would like to be.  But do not be afraid to adjust those come race day.  Doing a certain pace in each individual sport has less bearing when you are doing all three together in one race.

Key thing is to stay within yourself and keep the effort and pace realistic with your abilities.  Remember, it is a long race!  Good luck with your training.


2010-04-06 11:53 AM
in reply to: #2771282

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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
Zones it is!

As a follow up question, what are your typical zones during a race of this distance? My assumption is to stick in Zone 3 with an option to dip into Zone 4 on rare and short occasion.

-Kirk
2010-04-06 11:53 AM
in reply to: #2771305

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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
just remember when you are run training. you shouldn't be running your race pace all the time in training.  Google the daniels running formula tables and it will give you a decent idea of what pace you should be running based on prior race times.

For biking & running, pick whatever method you are going to use to train by and stick with it.   things get consufusing when you attempting to train for your run with HR, pace and RPE all at the same time.
2010-04-06 12:08 PM
in reply to: #2771282

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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
A couple of observations:

You talk about zones, and maybe I missed it in the thread, but I don't see if you've done testing to establish zones or some other method.  If you haven't, you should test to establish them.  There are numerous theories and methods for doing this, but no matter which you use, it's going to be better than and age formula.

I looked at your logs, and your run volume jumped from 5-10 miles per week to 30+ in the course of 2 weeks.  Be careful, because that kind of abrupt increase can lead to injuries.  Try to stick to the 10% rule - Don't increase your long run or total weekly milage by more than 10% over the previous week.

Shorter races tend to be in zone 3/4, but HIM and IM seem to be primarily zone 2 for most people.  Some of the people here with more experience than I have can elaborate more on this.

Don
2010-04-06 12:17 PM
in reply to: #2771282

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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
Yes, I have done the 30 minute field test to establish my training zones. Now that I'm at the beginning of a new training program, I plan to repeat them to make sure I'm still on the right track. That's a really good point to bring up, by the way.

As for run volume, I have increased it a bit lately in preparation for a half marathon in a couple of weeks, but I don't think by as much as you point out. I don't know if the link will work, but here's a weekly breakdown of run volume for the past 3 months:

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/training-repo...

A couple of weeks ago I was sick, so I had a low week.

The training volume brings up another good point - does this seem like an adequate volume for the beginning of an HIM plan? I'm sure I'll be increasing over the next few months, but this is my current baseline.

Zone 2 for longer distances, eh? That's interesting, and valuable to know. I'll keep that in mind and think about touching Zone 3 for those short bursts.

-Kirk



Edited by KirkD 2010-04-06 12:20 PM
2010-04-06 12:18 PM
in reply to: #2771282

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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
Many people find this calculator to be pretty accurate for predicting race paces:

http://www.triathloncalculator.com/


2010-04-06 12:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
Wow. That's depressing. It gives me a 6:30 finishing time for my HIM. My 5:00 hour dream may be slipping away quickly. 8^(
2010-04-06 12:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
KirkD - 2010-04-06 11:17 AM

Zone 2 for longer distances, eh? That's interesting, and valuable to know. -Kirk



NO.
For an Ironman maybe but NOT for a Half. You should be able to hold an effort level closer to your LT so you will very likely be in Zone 3 especially on the run.
2010-04-06 12:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
Road Phoenix - 2010-04-06 12:41 PM Continue to train and then when you are about a month or so out set some benchmark training field tests (such as a 1,000 yard swim TT, a 20 mile bike TT and a 10k or longer run) to get a sense of where you stand at that moment.  Do not do them all on the same day.  Allow a few days between each hard effort.

From those you can set some realistic goals of a range where you would like to be.  But do not be afraid to adjust those come race day.  Doing a certain pace in each individual sport has less bearing when you are doing all three together in one race.

Key thing is to stay within yourself and keep the effort and pace realistic with your abilities.  Remember, it is a long race!  Good luck with your training.

X2

You have a long way to go.  In the 6 months of training for my one and only HIM my fitness level went far beyond I thought was possible.  Have a great summer of training, remember not to do too much to soon.
2010-04-06 1:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
TriMyBest - 2010-04-06 11:08 AM
Shorter races tend to be in zone 3/4, but HIM and IM seem to be primarily zone 2 for most people.  Some of the people here with more experience than I have can elaborate more on this.

Don


Even for an IM bike leg, you should be able to ride at the top of Zone 2 for the race. HIM you can definately be in Zone 3 for the race.

Training paces however, d o not always need to be race pace.
2010-04-06 2:00 PM
in reply to: #2771596

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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
KirkD - 2010-04-06 11:29 AM Wow. That's depressing. It gives me a 6:30 finishing time for my HIM. My 5:00 hour dream may be slipping away quickly. 8^(


The calculator wasn't completely accurate for me either. However, it was only off by about 20 minutes. It might be something to revisit as you have new information to get a better sense of where you're at.


2010-04-06 4:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Training pace versus race pace
AdventureBear - 2010-04-06 2:25 PM
TriMyBest - 2010-04-06 11:08 AM Shorter races tend to be in zone 3/4, but HIM and IM seem to be primarily zone 2 for most people.  Some of the people here with more experience than I have can elaborate more on this.

Don
Even for an IM bike leg, you should be able to ride at the top of Zone 2 for the race. HIM you can definately be in Zone 3 for the race. Training paces however, d o not always need to be race pace.


Bryan & Suzanne - Thanks for the clarifications regarding longer races.  It sounds like I need to retest, or modify my training, because if I stayed in Z3 for 3 hours on a HIM bike, I'd be fine aerobically, but my leg muscles would be fried for the run.
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