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2010-05-06 10:06 PM

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Subject: Swim Power In The Hips?

A few months ago, I posted an article on "The Catch" which is one of the key points in a good stroke.  I came across a good article about another key point in the stroke - hip movement.  Read the full article here: Using Your Hips To Power Your Swimming 

Here is the important passage of the article:

When your right arm is extended in front, you should be on your right side with your left arm beginning its recovery. If you like, you can think of your arm as a lever that extends from the tips of your fingers, through your armpit, along your side and finally ending at the fulcrum: your hips. At this point, you should use your hips to power your right hand and arm quickly through the water with a powerful movement. The right arm should go through its full range of motion so that you are applying force as long as possible. At the same time you should complete your left arm recovery and reach for the catch, with your body now on its left side. Ideally, you should have a slight glide with every stroke so that your recovering hand (the one in the air) is at least up to your ear before you begin your stroke. 

You can work on the movement by doing a one arm stroke with you opposite hand at your waist.  If you do not use your hips in your one arm stroke, you will go sloooooow.  It is a great drill to understand how important it is to tap the power in your hips. 

Enjoy! 

 



2010-05-07 4:49 AM
in reply to: #2842779

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Subject: RE: Swim Power In The Hips?

thecaptin - 2010-05-06 11:06 PM

your recovering hand (the one in the air) is at least up to your ear before you begin your stroke.

I don't think I do this.  I'll check today, but I think I am just starting the recovery as I'm also starting the catch.  I've always thought my stroke was out of sync, and this might just be the problem.

 

As for one armed drills:  I like to call those drowning drills.  They kill me, but they are slowly getting easier.  I find one armed drills + fist drills has a big impact on my swimming.

Thanks for the info!

2010-05-07 6:12 AM
in reply to: #2842937

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Master
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Subject: RE: Swim Power In The Hips?

brown_dog_us - 2010-05-07 5:49 AM

thecaptin - 2010-05-06 11:06 PM

your recovering hand (the one in the air) is at least up to your ear before you begin your stroke.

I don't think I do this.  I'll check today, but I think I am just starting the recovery as I'm also starting the catch.  I've always thought my stroke was out of sync, and this might just be the problem.

 

As for one armed drills:  I like to call those drowning drills.  They kill me, but they are slowly getting easier.  I find one armed drills + fist drills has a big impact on my swimming.

Thanks for the info!

There is some debate on stroke - pool v OWS.  This article is advocating a glide period in the stroke.  Some camps have been pushing a shorter stroke and less glide for OWS.  This changes up the stroke significantly.  I shorten up at the start then go with the glide when I have more room to to operate.  I will see if I can find some information on this topic.

2010-05-07 7:48 AM
in reply to: #2842779

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Subject: RE: Swim Power In The Hips?
I've been working on speeding up the recovery phase of my stroke but I don't know if I'd go for less glide in an OWS than in a pool.  Gliding gives you more distance per stroke so, if you aren't going for record speed, you can do your long distance OWS with less effort expended.  Speeding up the turnover can wear on you.  I definitely don't think the "power" comes from the hips (unless you are talking about kicking) but hip rotation is critical to lengthening your stroke and getting a nice glide.  Good job posting "swimming tricks".  It is nice to focus on one small issue every once in a while.
2010-05-07 8:04 AM
in reply to: #2842974

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Subject: RE: Swim Power In The Hips?

Some Info addressing glide, stroke rate and OWS vs. pool:

http://www.swimsmooth.com/slowsr_adv.html

"Stroke Rate And Open Water
Here's something interesting about stroke rate.  It's well known in the elite swimming and triathlon world that low strokes are bad news in open water. You are very prone to being stalled by chop, waves and shifting currents.  A small wave or a push from another competitor can stop you dead during a pause in your stroke.  The solution? Increase your stroke rate and remove the dead spots Elite triathletes often switch to higher stroke rate styles in open water for exactly this reason."

Also:

"Glide' is a Dirty Word!
Swim Smooth believe that the word 'glide' has a lot to answer for! When you add an element of glide into your stroke you introduce a pause. That hurts your rhythm. Imagine riding a bike and pausing on every pedal stroke!  When you glide you also slow down. On your next stroke you have to re-accelerate yourself, which feels hard.  Have you experienced this? Do you have a long stroke but on each stroke it feels hard, like a lot of force is required to maintain the long stroke? That's because you're having to re-accelerate all your body mass on every stroke!  Remove the glide, don't decelerate between strokes and it'll feel easier and be faster."

 

2010-05-07 8:19 AM
in reply to: #2843187

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Subject: RE: Swim Power In The Hips?
Interesting.  I've never felt like there was a "dead spot" in my stroke when I swim in open water but that does make sense considering all the external factors that play a role in OWS.  But......here is a big caveat.  You need to practice swimming that way before hand so your shoulders adapt and the majority (if not all) of people's swim training is done in the pool.  I know my shoulders wouldn't tolerate a whole lot of swimming with the glide taken out.  So, do you do some glide work and some turn over work?   Maybe tempo swims with OWS turn over and then everything else with glide?


2010-05-07 8:59 AM
in reply to: #2842779

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Master
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Subject: RE: Swim Power In The Hips?

There is a test you can do to check for a "dead spot"...let me try to find it.  I did it a while back and sure enough, my left stroke had a dead spot.

My take on glide...it has a place for in stroke mechanics, but can be over emphasized.  I agree too much glide will more than likely result in other problems or worse make you slower.  LOL.  Not the desired outcome. 

On no power from the hips, I would suggest a 25 yard swim with no rotation in the hips followed by one with hip rotation.  You will see the speed difference and it is not just smoothness of the overall stroke.  A good snap in the hips can create a nice add to the power.  Also, the one arm swin drill will quickly point out the power in the hips.

2010-05-07 9:02 AM
in reply to: #2843237

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Subject: RE: Swim Power In The Hips?
I think that an extended glide *might* produce a small pause in the stroke, but for most longer distance races (1,000 m+) the elongated stroke with glide (more like the catch-up drill) is more efficient and less tiring than a shorter "sprint" stroke once you've escaped the pack.  At the Beast of the East this weekend, we had some chop (not heavy, but definite waves) and I didn't find that the glide impeded my progress through the waves once I got in sync with them so that I shot through them while my forward arm was extended rather than hitting them at mid stroke.  However, I can see where hitting the wave when not extended and attempting to glide could cause you to lose momentum as each wave would just push you back.

As smyrnian posted, the pros do appear to use a shorter stroke but I attribute that to (1) them being in a pack, and (2) going at sprint-pace.  If you watch Ironman and ITU racing (we've been watching a lot of Universal Sports this spring), the pros seem to use a 2 beat stroke cycle (the opposite of the catch-up drill) with one breath every 2 strokes.  I have tried to replicate this stroke in the pool but can only do it for very short sprints because it's really tiring - almost like the head-up drill.  They do still appear to have a tiny bit of glide, though, after each breath.
2010-05-07 9:05 AM
in reply to: #2842779

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Subject: RE: Swim Power In The Hips?
Hips are crucial. When I first started swimming I had little to know hip rotation. Someone described me as "looking like a polar bear swimming." Once I started adding a rotation and some power with the hips, it was like night and day. Speed went up, stroke rate, was down, and heart rate was down.

My swimming is no were near good, but I believe the hips really tie the whole stroke together.  
2010-05-07 12:49 PM
in reply to: #2842779

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Subject: RE: Swim Power In The Hips?

I am not sure I really understand what is being said. I do know that in general the less I think about my swimming when swimming the faster I can swim. I just in general do better at stuff if I don't have to focus on form.

When we do those pull or just kick stuff I am so slow, like way slower than Steph and Greg and I think we three have about the same swim times--but when I get to use my whole body and do my regular stroke I am a very efficient swimmer and have no problem keeping up with them. But those kick sets! It drives me crazy. I almost got lapped today when we were doing them.  This leads me to believe-- and I didn't think this at all until I started doing those pull/kick sets at Steph's "fun friday swim"-- that swimming efficiency had everything to do with body position in the water. I always thought my kick was my motor but it isn't at all.

I do know that when I swim-- and when even doing those pull sets but not with the kicking--, that I am swiveling or rotating with my stroke. I can feel my whole body shift side to side. I think of it more as rolling but I think this is what y'all are talking about regarding the hips and it does make your stroke feel very effortless. However, when all out sprinting I don't think I am rolling as much but maybe I am and it is just all happening so fast I don't feel it as much ????

Does that make any sense? I just want to be a part of the conversation.

2010-05-07 1:06 PM
in reply to: #2842779

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Subject: RE: Swim Power In The Hips?

Without watching you swim, it is hard to give you much to go on.  However, I bet you need to work on the front end of your stroke.  I would suggest reading my post that is linked on the start of this topic "The catch".  I am willing to bet you are crossing the center line of your body with your stroke, not getting your elbow high enough and not rotating your hips properly.  Pure guess.  How do I know this?  I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night (in other words take it with a grain of salt and talk with a tri/swim coach to get a real analysis). 



2010-05-07 1:14 PM
in reply to: #2843382

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Subject: RE: Swim Power In The Hips?

thecaptin - 2010-05-07 9:59 AM

There is a test you can do to check for a "dead spot"...let me try to find it.  I did it a while back and sure enough, my left stroke had a dead spot. 

Here is the test on Slow Twitch - The Stall

 

2010-05-08 3:57 PM
in reply to: #2842779

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Subject: RE: Swim Power In The Hips?

Did an MAP OWS today...I fooled around with glide a bit.  I will have to say IF you get some open water, long stroke with a medium glide, is just perfect.   Great discussion about that topic.  I may not have paid attention to it on this OWS without the posts from everyone.  Looking forward to pushing the PIT swim.



Edited by thecaptin 2010-05-08 3:58 PM
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