General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Swimming input Rss Feed  
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2010-05-20 2:04 AM

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Subject: Swimming input
Alright so today was supposed to be my offday but at lunch I just felt worn down and tired so decided I need some exercise to get the blood flowing.  I went down and hit the pool (my major weak spot) for a quick swim, just under 20 minutes quick actually.  Here's how it went down.

50m pool

50x2 warmup (crawl) - I tried to go slow here but even then I was tired at the end of the second 50

50x2 with a PB (crawl) - First 50 I did with it between my ankles, second between my thighs.  Both ways I felt a lot more smooth in the water and felt like I was gliding better and putting out less effort than normal.  I was breathing comfortably every 5th stroke rather than every 3rd and struggling.

50x2 with PB (crawl) - First 25 with right arm, second 25 with left arm, etc.  Felt like my balance was just terrible.  I had a lot of trouble on rotation with almost rotating over, especially breathing and having to use my extended arm for balance by stroking slightly.

50x2 (breaststroke) - First time I've used breast in training, harder than I thought, not sure how I should be breathing.

50x1 cooldown (crawl)- Tired, struggled, may have rotated onto my back for the last 10-15m but I'll never tell.

I know there are workouts here that I have to try and I know I really need a swim coach for at least a session or two to try to work on stroke development.  Unfortunately, I forget to check the workouts and memorize them (not as easy to write when you're dripping wet, unlike weight training) prior to heading to the pool and a coach isn't always easy to find.

If you have any advice that I can use for now, please feel free to let me know.


2010-05-20 3:09 AM
in reply to: #2870048

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Subject: RE: Swimming input
I would try and do your work-outs when you are feeling strong and rested. To help remember the work-out plan I cut-paste on notepad and print and just carry it with me. On limited time like 20 min I would just swim non-stop at an easy pace. Most people default to the breaststroke because it allows you to keep your head out of water. I think a lot of your issues may be breathing. Every 5th stroke is probably not enough. If you are more comfortable with the PB you probably have body position/balance issues. I agree on getting a coach. It has made a tremendous difference for me.
2010-05-20 4:52 AM
in reply to: #2870048

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Subject: RE: Swimming input
If you felt better and easier with a pull buoy, it's a balance/support issue. I imagine you feel your legs are sinking when you swim without the buoy. That sensation usually leads to
- kicking more
- stroking faster
- using your arms to counter that sinking sensation, rather than to move forward
- and consequently more fatigue with less speed.

Q: What was your SPL on the first 2 x 50, the next two, and later? If there's a considerable change, your fatigue is making even a slower pace non-sustainable.

When you look to improve your swimming, focus on these qualities first
1) Comfort, balance and sense of support
2) Streamlining and stability - lower drag positions, less turbulence

These will allow you to move through the water with less effort, and consequently do a better job of sustaining your initial speed and efficiency.
2010-05-20 6:48 PM
in reply to: #2870066

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Subject: RE: Swimming input
Sorry about the delayed response, Tokyo time zone makes things difficult sometimes, anyway...  I didn't record yesterdays splits so I went in again this morning and I swam prior to lifting so that I was not fatigued and it's ugly.

Distance stroke - time - rest time
50 crawl - 1:00.9 - (33.13)
50 crawl - 1:06.93 - (26.74)
50 back - 2:47.20 - (29.80)
50 breast - 1:22.78 - (29.52)
50 crawl PB between ankles - 1:13.70 - (30.05)
50 crawl PB between thighs - 1:20.95 - (48.73)
50 combat side stroke, left side down - 1:39.19 - (41.43)
50 combat side stroke, right side down - 1:29.72

I do feel like balance is poor.  In crawl I am definitely kicking a lot with my legs.  Even when I try to push down with my chest I don't feel like my hips are gaining lift.

Funny enough, looks like my first tri will be next Saturday.  Thankfully it's a sprint with only a 400m swim in Tokyo Bay.  Just need to find a wetsuit!  I don't expect to correct all my deficiencies in a week, but I will try to be at the pool most days to work on comfort level and make the best of the swim.
2010-05-20 7:52 PM
in reply to: #2870048

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Subject: RE: Swimming input

If your goal is to go the distance then you could do worse than follow the 0-1650 plan - it is super easy to remember and works on steps to get you to 1650 (1mile+/-) .

Its 3 swims a week and progressively longer sessions - it works on increasing your breathing endurance, and of course your swim endurance. 

I know a couple of people who have done it and gone on to be comfortable and strong - yeah you may need stroke correction etc if you want to be a perfect swimmer but if you want to do the distance and dont intend being on a podium it may be good for you.

I think if you google 0 to 1650 swim you'll find it easy enough. Its nothing to do with technigue - its all about just getting int he pool and doing it. I will repeat I didnt say its going to be for the purists but for me its helped significantly.

2010-05-21 5:02 AM
in reply to: #2872502

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Subject: RE: Swimming input
Thanks, I'll look into that. There's a few different beginner programs I'm looking at.  Hopefully between using one of those and getting either some one-on-one lessons or a real coach I'll get whipped up into shape quickly.


2010-05-21 5:56 AM
in reply to: #2872851

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Subject: RE: Swimming input
Jonathan
If you're in Tokyo, there are TI facilities in Funabori (Endless Pool) and Ogikubo (25m pool). They have English-speaking instructors at both facilities (same instructors work at both) though if you work in Tokyo I imagine you're fluent in Japanese. Google TI-Japan to find contact info.

This video of Shinji Takeuchi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJpFVvho0o4has now been viewed by more people than any other swimmer on-line, except Michael Phelps. Pretty impressive considering that he's a 43 y.o. father of two, not a world-class athlete, who didn't begin working on his swimming until age 37. It was shot in the Ogikubo facility, which is called Skyfit. If you check out the youtube channel for TI-Japan http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_playlists&search_... you can see video of all the TI coaches and how remarkably similar their strokes are to Shinji's.

The critical caveat on the 0-1650 method, and other similar "incrementally add yardage" approaches is that while you may eventually complete a long swim, if you have fundamental existing inefficiencies in your stroke, each lap you add has the effect of making your "struggling skills" more permanent. Your initial post suggests that you probably have significant opportunity to reduce struggle and increase efficiency.
Swim well,
Terry
2010-05-23 7:15 PM
in reply to: #2870048

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Subject: RE: Swimming input
Watched some of those videos that you linked.  Tried to put it into perspective in the pool this morning and found some things out.

I slowed down, a lot.  Focused on the 2BK and keeping my head down and hips up.  I basically swam 50s focused on form, 3 stroke breath with catch-up.  It was slow, like, 1:30 50s (give or take a few seconds).  The difference was that I didn't feel worn out quickly or out of breath with burning legs struggling to stay afloat.

The second thing I found was that I appear to be sinking, all of me.  As I was rolling onto my side to breathe I would find that I was further below the surface than I thought.  There were times where I had to give some extra kick to resurface to breathe.  I'm not sure if that is an effect of swimming more slowly, trying to correct my form, or that I just happen to be slightly negatively bouyant.

I was going to have a video of my thrashing through the water in a vain attempt at a swimming mimicry yesterday but I failed.  I took my family to the pool to teach my son to swim (hates the water for some reason, but he's only 2) and I was going to grab the video camera to have the wife record a couple of laps but I forgot to grab the camera.  Anyway, one of these days I'll get that done right and in the event that I don't find a coach I'm hoping to find help here.  So far a lot of the info has been helpful for me and I hope that continues.

I did look at the TI coaches in Tokyo and I have to convince the wife to let me spend the money to give that route a shot.  We'll see how it goes.  Oh yea, and my Japanese is terrible at best so English speakers (or semi-English speakers) are best for me, but I am working on the indigenous language!
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