General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL Rss Feed  
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2010-06-02 1:56 PM

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Subject: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL

Really unfortunate happening in Jacksonville this past weekend.  Following an annual Memorial Day cycling event, there was a confrontation between a vehicle driver and some cyclists.  At the end of the day, two cyclists were stabbed and the driver was arrested.  See here and here for news articles.  In my opinion, there's no circumstance where violence should be acceptable (by either the cyclists or the driver).

Clearly, a sad situation for all involved.  Even more sad is the vitriol seen in the follow-up comments and posts by both cyclists and non-cyclists.  Lots of "cyclists think they own the roads," and "drivers don't pay enough attention to us" type comments.  There's clearly a split in terms of thoughts regarding cyclists being allowed on the road.  It's a shame that so many folks take a pure black or white perspective on this issue.

What's it like where you live?  Is there an equally obvious disdain for cyclists in your city?  What (if anything) could be done?

Discussion, please.



2010-06-02 2:23 PM
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Expert
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL

It's not quite that heated here in the Triangle portion of NC, but we're about one major incident away from it being a hotbed.  Lots of tensions between motorists and cyclists, especially those that partake in group rides.  I ride 90% of the time solo, so I don't encounter it all that much.  I try to be the courteous cyclist, giving road up when I can, but taking it when I need it.

2010-06-02 2:44 PM
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Sarasota, FL
Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL

Bad deal all around.  Sounds like the kid driving the truck was the instigator, but too bad that the cyclists couldn't have just backed off and called the cops.

That being said, I would categorize stabbing someone six times as attempted murder, not assault.

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

2010-06-02 2:48 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
I clearly run across some hot heads, but overall, most people are friendly and easy to get along with. I think there is just alot more hatred on anonymous comments.
2010-06-02 2:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL

Where's the fire?  I say that flippantly.  But, why is everyone in such a hurry as to be absolutely insulted that there time is being disrespected......at the mere sight of a cyclist on the road in front of them?


On the flip-side of this --
I've said it before, here....and I'll say it again.  Cyclists (as a whole) are their own worst enemies.



Edited by nc452010 2010-06-02 2:51 PM
2010-06-02 3:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
RedCorvette - 2010-06-02 2:44 PM

Bad deal all around.  Sounds like the kid driving the truck was the instigator, but too bad that the cyclists couldn't have just backed off and called the cops.

That being said, I would categorize stabbing someone six times as attempted murder, not assault.

Mark

x2... stabbing someone in the back as they're trying to flee the scene and after you've already stabbed them in the stomach indicates a desire to kill.  Just my opinion.  But seriously, how could you justify stabbing someone repeatedly in the back as necessary self defense?

 

 

 

 



2010-06-02 3:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
I think I'll sell my bike and buy a kayak. Being a triathlete I rarely go on the big group rides, but I have been on a few with over 75 people. I have been over the Shands Bridge (just 2 lanes with a speed limit of 55 mph) with a large group taking up the whole lane and forcing cars to follow behind at less than 30 mph. I can see how that would a driver off especially if they were in a hurry. I can also see why we needed to do that for safety reasons. That is why I prefer to go out by myself or in a group of 5 or less and try and pick routes that at least have a decent shoulder to ride on. I would never intentionally a driver off, but there are plenty of them that me off when they seem to have little regard for my safety. Sometimes I wonder if they did it on purpose or if they were distracted and didn't even see me. Which is worse?
2010-06-02 3:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
JPS0135 - 2010-06-02 11:56 AM

 In my opinion, there's no circumstance where violence should be acceptable (by either the cyclists or the driver).


First off, this quote is the most important.  I've been pretty pissed at drivers from time to time, but taking it to violence is NEVER acceptable.

Here in central Oregon, I rarely have problems.  But I usually ride alone and try to be very smart about how I ride.  Of course, there will always be a-holes no matter where you are and I just try to smile and blow them a kiss after they buzz me. 
2010-06-02 3:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
First: it's never okay to stab someone.

Second: my mom used to say "right of way doesn't matter if you're dead." Sometimes -- as hard as it is -- to just LET IT GO, it's better and safer to do just that. I was once riding my bike in the city and a boy SPIT on me. I was so mad I was seeing red. BUT: it's not uncommon in Baltimore for a kid to carry a knife or a gun, and I knew the smarter thing to do was to just keep pedaling.

Third: there are a lot of stupid comments (from the gallery in the article, not on here!), but this one makes a ton of sense: Over the last 25 years in Jacksonville, I've seen bad behavior from both groups, and I've experienced it personally. Each side could use a change of attitude, since both must co-exist. Like ^^ said, cyclists are often in the wrong. I've seen MANY run lights, cut off cars, weave through traffic, run stop signs, etc.

All of this makes me so nervous to go back on the road.
2010-06-02 4:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
Have to agree as well that cyclists are our own worst enemy.  When I am motorist I am constantly annoyed by the group riders around here.  It's embarrassing to call myself a cyclist watching some of the arrogant things they do every Saturday and Sunday. Typical running stop signs blocking 2 lane roads, yelling at cars trying to get around them etc.  I am amazed we haven’t had any major confrontations. The stabbing down in Jacksonville is just nuts.  Thankfully I am a triathlete and they prefer I don't join the group rides and I am happy to oblige! 

 

2010-06-02 4:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
Sad.  This is a perfect example of how obnoxious behavior can quickly escalate into 'critical condition'.  Driver buzzes cyclist; cyclist yells; driver pursues and gets physical; cyclist throws a punch; driver stabs.  And now life is going to suck for all involved.

IMO, the driver is by far the more guilty party, being the one who instigated, the one who first resorted to physical violence, and the one who attempted deadly violence.  But both parties probably could have ended it early on (the cyclist by not yelling; the driver by not pursuing).  After that, the outcome became more and more difficult to avoid.


2010-06-02 4:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
Such a bad incident all the way around.

The driver said he was "jumped" by a group of cyclists....well, that's what happens when you follow them into the parking lot and confront them.

The cyclist punched him in the face after it sounds like the kid was trying to act tough and then got stabbed....well, that's what happens when you punch someone in the face.

Sounds to me like the pick up driver was just a kid...he had his dad come down and talk to the police and just by his actions.

Looks like another tough guy contest that got out of control.

Another great example of just let it the hell go...who cares. If the kid brushed up against someone and no one was hurt....just let it go. No good will ever come from yelling and confronting the driver....
2010-06-02 4:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
The irony is the driver was most likely upset because the bicyclists were slowing him down and costing him time.  So I wonder how much time his response is going to cost him?
2010-06-02 5:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
Well not cycling but a person was stabbed during The Sun Run (huge 10km race) here in Vancouver... didn't appear to be any provocation or motive either, person was just packing their bag up after the race!
2010-06-02 6:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
It saddens me to hear of violence of any kind.

As mentioned in some of the other postings, in these situations, there is only one thing that you can control and that is ourselves. Not to Dr. Phil this, but we also need to examine the way we are as cyclists and drivers. Its amazing that whenever I have a gripe session with people about drivers, I must hang out with the best drivers because everyone else are the worst. I know as a cyclist, I am torn between being a vehicle and following the laws of a vehicle or being a pedestrian and following those rules. Thats a whole other thread.

Can't we all just get along?
2010-06-02 6:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL

Clearly no winners in this situation
T?ragic all the way around 
V???iolence never solves the problem??
??It is about respecting each other as humans and realizing that two wrongs do not make a right??.



2010-06-02 7:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL

I'll post here what I've written elsewhere, just to add some detail about what happened.

This ride is a tradition and all of the racers in town come out; there's usually a small lead group left at the end. There were about 20 of us in the lead group this time, and the whole thing happened very quickly. I had just entered the parking lot and grabbed a cooler from the car when I heard the yelling between a couple of guys and this guy in a pickup. He followed them into the parking lot and stopped in front of us and got out. More yelling; I actually leaned my bike on a tree and was thinking, "man, I'm too tired to deal with this ".

The guy did the classic chest bump with one of the young guys who had been yelling at him, and then a friend of mine was there and fists were flying. Another guy tried to pull them apart; the pickup guy was flailing around and then jumped back into his truck and peeled rubber getting away. The whole thing lasted maybe 30 seconds. We were yelling to get his tag #, but it took a few seconds before we realized that it had been more than fists flying and that the truck driver had had a knife.

The poor guy who'd tried to break it up was streaming blood from a big slash in his arm, and my friend John had been stabbed multiple times. We laid them under a tree, called 911, and waited for the paramedics. One of the women who rides with us has a medical background and did a great job of stopping the bleeding from the arm wound; there wasn't much we could do for John as he wasn't bleeding a lot and was conscious and talking.

The assailant called his father who told police where to find him; he's been charged and hopefully will see some good jail time. John was stabbed 6 times, one of which punctured a lung.  I just talked to John on the phone a few minutes ago; he's doing better than you might expect and I made a few jokes about chicks digging scars... he'll be in the hospital a few more days at least.  I'm glad it wasn't worse.  

We did our usual Tuesday night ride last night; it was more subdued than usual and I know we were all thinking about the incident.  I hope that something positive comes of it with increased awareness from motorists and cyclists alike.




Edited by KendallF 2010-06-02 7:32 PM
2010-06-02 7:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
Kendall, thanks for posting that.

Edited by Experior 2010-06-02 7:40 PM
2010-06-02 8:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
Sad indeed, but at least better outcome than the situation in Quebec a few weeks ago where motorists killed 5 cyclists in separate incidents within a week.  Vehicles not knives, but dead is dead.  
We all need use our heads 'cause it can be a dangerous world out there.
2010-06-02 8:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
"Road Rage" is real. There are people who can't handle the stress of driving and do crazy things. As a cyclist, these people pass us all the time. All it takes is one small trigger to set them off. I pray for a speedy recovery for the stabbing victims but in reality the outcome could have been a lot worse. I'm sure the driver didn't have a gun because he probably would have pulled that out instead.

There is no shame in backing down IMHO.
2010-06-02 8:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Two Cyclists stabbed in Jax, FL
There are idiots everywhere.  I ride on some back country roads with few cars but I do get some of the rednecks that like to see how close they can get to me on my bike.   No real problems yet and hopefully I never will.  Everyone ride careful.


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