General Discussion Triathlon Talk » HM Nutrition quesdtions Rss Feed  
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2010-06-21 7:04 AM

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Expert
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Pfafftown, NC
Subject: HM Nutrition quesdtions
Survived my second sprint of the season, Sunday.  I have 2 more to go, but my main focus, now, turns to the half-marathon I signed up for on Oct. 3.  The 5K legs of the 2 sprints I've done are the only running events I've ever done.  I know the 12wk program I'll "likely" be following has me running a 5K and a 10K......so that should help (along with the 2 other sprints I have scheduled between now and then).

So - nutrition for a 1/2 marathon???

For my sprints....I've done nothing other than a squirt of gatorade, getting on the bike and just before the run.  "Maybe" 4oz., total.  That's all I needed, even though it was plenty hot.

What do I need to start thinking about for the 1/2?  If I had to guess, now, I'd say I'm hoping to finish it in just under 2hrs..

Thanks.

jeff


2010-06-21 7:06 AM
in reply to: #2933467

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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
I run a half marathon in about 2 hours and last one I did I only used one gel.  I only used water on the course.  That works for me.  Anymore then that and I'm probably going to have stomach issues but it is also plenty of energy for me.  I just had my usual breakfast of toast with peanut butter before hand, which is what I usually eat pre-long run.
2010-06-21 7:10 AM
in reply to: #2933467

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Runner
Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
I've always just had whatever sports drink they hand out on the course. But I'm a simple person with lots of practice and minimal needs. And I dislike gels.

You can most likely do fine with pretty minimal intake.

MTA: Time is not a factor for calories. Distance and runner's weight are the two primary things to consider. Terrain, weather, and training/current fitness matter as well, but they are hard to put a number on. If you focus on the distance and your weight, you can get a close enough estimate to calories burned.

Here is a discussion and formula.

Edited by Scout7 2010-06-21 7:14 AM
2010-06-21 7:15 AM
in reply to: #2933467

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Champion
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Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
For a half marathon, I will take a small sip of sports drink every couple of miles.  For someone finishing a half marathon under two hours, their breakfast and a little sports drink/gel before the start should provide all (or almost all of the calories they need) without having to worry about anything on course.

Many athletes drastically over estimate the amount of nutrition they need for a race that last less than two hours.

Shane
2010-06-21 7:15 AM
in reply to: #2933467

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Wilmington, NC
Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
With a goal of being out there 2 hours I am going to go with no nutrition. Take water and sports drink from aid stations as you need it and that is all I would do.
A few hours before the race take on a breakfast of 400-500 calories and you should be golden. (I try to take the bulk of my calories on the morning of a race in liquid form ie ensure, myoplex, muscle milk etc etc.)
Good luck.
2010-06-21 7:34 AM
in reply to: #2933467

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Dallas, TX
Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
Just do Gu and water. Always worked fine for me. Then again my tummy doesn't like a lot of liquid or food while running.

Good luck!


2010-06-21 9:20 AM
in reply to: #2933467

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Pfafftown, NC
Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
I'm definitely looking for the minimalist approach.  My pre-race for the sprints (breakfast) has been 3 slices of jelly toast.  I'm guessing that's (whole wheat) 400calories or so.  I guess I could throw a 1/2 a cliff bar in and get all I'd need.  I don't want to worry about it.  That's for sure.  I'm not gonna starve in 2hours....and at 190#'s (+/-), I've got plenty, stored!

I'd like to have a splash of gatorade or two along the way, though.  If nothing else, it's mental.  Something to look forward to.  I don't see me "drinking", though.  Course is proported to be "flat".  Weather in eastern NC in Oct. could be 50's - 70's (start). 
2010-06-21 9:44 AM
in reply to: #2933477

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Lafayette, CO
Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
Scout7 - 2010-06-21 6:10 AM I've always just had whatever sports drink they hand out on the course. But I'm a simple person with lots of practice and minimal needs. And I dislike gels. You can most likely do fine with pretty minimal intake. MTA: Time is not a factor for calories. Distance and runner's weight are the two primary things to consider. Terrain, weather, and training/current fitness matter as well, but they are hard to put a number on. If you focus on the distance and your weight, you can get a close enough estimate to calories burned. Here is a discussion and formula.


Thanks for posting that link.  I'm working toward my first HM as well on October 17th so this will start to become something for me to think about.  Because I'm definitely in the Athena category I know I burn more calories but wasn't sure how to calculate.  I'll be working through nutrition on my long runs through the summer to see what works and what doesn't.  I'll probably end up doing 1 Gu and water through the course and have a second Gu in my belt just in case. 
2010-06-21 2:58 PM
in reply to: #2933467

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Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
wheat beagle 3 hours b4,
gu 30 before,
gu mile 7,
plus water bottle in hand the whole race.

time: 1:50 (first half)

Keep it simple!

;-)
2010-06-21 3:06 PM
in reply to: #2933467

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Expert
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Colorado Springs, Colorado
Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
I use one gel and water. I don't use the race sports drink as it is often improperly mixed and has made me sick more than once. By using my own gels and getting water on the course, it is exactly how I train and I know how it works for me.

I eat my normal breakfast before a race the same as I have any other days.
2010-06-21 3:07 PM
in reply to: #2934969

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Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
camaleon - 2010-06-21 3:58 PM wheat beagle 3 hours b4,
 

;-)


do you eat the standard tri color beagles or more like the snoopy cartoon beagles


2010-06-21 3:10 PM
in reply to: #2933467

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Master
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Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
The best run I had was when I took maybe a couple sips of water and that was it.  I've also done one where I've taken 1 gel.  If anything, taking it slowed me down a little and I probably didn't need it.  Depends on the temperature too.  When it was cool out I just ran right through it.  This time of year I might drink more....
2010-06-21 3:13 PM
in reply to: #2934998

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Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
tallvinny - 2010-06-21 4:07 PM
camaleon - 2010-06-21 3:58 PM wheat beagle 3 hours b4,
 

;-)


do you eat the standard tri color beagles or more like the snoopy cartoon beagles


lol snoopy! u can't go wrong lol
2010-06-21 8:37 PM
in reply to: #2933467

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Expert
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Charlotte, NC
Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
Agree with others on the minimalist approach.  I don't bring anything with me when I run a HM and will just grab some sports drink or water at a couple of the aid stations.  This time of year I might drink something every couple of miles.  Really no need for gels during the race but if it makes you feel more comfortable, go for it.
2010-06-21 8:54 PM
in reply to: #2933467

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Master
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St. Louis
Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions

My HM time is just under 2 hour (I've only done two).  On both, I had a banana for breakfast.  On both I took a gu 10 minutes before, one at 45 minutes in then one at 1:30.  I know the one at 1:30 isn't needed, but it gives me something to look forward too.  On the first race I drank gatorade at every stop.  On the second, I drank a sip of water at every other stop.  The water goes better with the GU in my opinion.

Practice nutrition on your long runs and see what works for you.

2010-06-21 9:11 PM
in reply to: #2933467

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Pfafftown, NC
Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions

I'm hoping to do it on minimal nutrition.  I'll play around with it.  I have time.

This is the stuff I wanted (and needed) to hear.  I'm really not gonna over-think this.

Thank you.



2010-06-22 5:38 AM
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Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
Just a little medical FYI on this subject--the fuel your body uses most effectively during endurance events is glycogen, which is made from carbs, hence the importance of carbo loading for a few days before the race. However, no matter how much you train your glycogen will not last much longer than an hour, at which point your body switches over to burning other things that don't work as well as glycogen. This switch your body makes can be hard on your system and many studies have linked the depletion of glycogen stores to the common feeling of 'hitting the wall.' So, scientifically speaking, any endurance event lasting long than an hour will require some outside nutrition to keep your performance up. The best thing to eat is simple sugars, which are carbs your body can instantly use for energy. This is basically what Gu and sports drinks are, just a bunch of simple sugars, but they work great. When I run half marathons, I take 2 gels-- first one at 45 min and 2nd at 1:15. I usually run them around 7:45 pace. Good luck!
2010-06-22 5:51 AM
in reply to: #2935908

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Runner
Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
mateojives - 2010-06-22 6:38 AM

Just a little medical FYI on this subject--the fuel your body uses most effectively during endurance events is glycogen, which is made from carbs, hence the importance of carbo loading for a few days before the race. However, no matter how much you train your glycogen will not last much longer than an hour, at which point your body switches over to burning other things that don't work as well as glycogen. This switch your body makes can be hard on your system and many studies have linked the depletion of glycogen stores to the common feeling of 'hitting the wall.' So, scientifically speaking, any endurance event lasting long than an hour will require some outside nutrition to keep your performance up. The best thing to eat is simple sugars, which are carbs your body can instantly use for energy. This is basically what Gu and sports drinks are, just a bunch of simple sugars, but they work great. When I run half marathons, I take 2 gels-- first one at 45 min and 2nd at 1:15. I usually run them around 7:45 pace. Good luck!


I thought it was closer to two hours.
2010-06-22 9:58 AM
in reply to: #2935908

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Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
mateojives - 2010-06-22 6:38 AM Just a little medical FYI on this subject--the fuel your body uses most effectively during endurance events is glycogen, which is made from carbs, hence the importance of carbo loading for a few days before the race. However, no matter how much you train your glycogen will not last much longer than an hour, at which point your body switches over to burning other things that don't work as well as glycogen. This switch your body makes can be hard on your system and many studies have linked the depletion of glycogen stores to the common feeling of 'hitting the wall.' So, scientifically speaking, any endurance event lasting long than an hour will require some outside nutrition to keep your performance up. The best thing to eat is simple sugars, which are carbs your body can instantly use for energy. This is basically what Gu and sports drinks are, just a bunch of simple sugars, but they work great. When I run half marathons, I take 2 gels-- first one at 45 min and 2nd at 1:15. I usually run them around 7:45 pace. Good luck!


Carbo loading is entirely unnecessary if you intend on eating during the event anyway.

And your glycogen stores last well over an hour when topped off normally.

Scientifically speaking. 
2010-06-22 10:15 AM
in reply to: #2935918

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Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
Scout7 - 2010-06-22 6:51 AM
mateojives - 2010-06-22 6:38 AM Just a little medical FYI on this subject--the fuel your body uses most effectively during endurance events is glycogen, which is made from carbs, hence the importance of carbo loading for a few days before the race. However, no matter how much you train your glycogen will not last much longer than an hour, at which point your body switches over to burning other things that don't work as well as glycogen. This switch your body makes can be hard on your system and many studies have linked the depletion of glycogen stores to the common feeling of 'hitting the wall.' So, scientifically speaking, any endurance event lasting long than an hour will require some outside nutrition to keep your performance up. The best thing to eat is simple sugars, which are carbs your body can instantly use for energy. This is basically what Gu and sports drinks are, just a bunch of simple sugars, but they work great. When I run half marathons, I take 2 gels-- first one at 45 min and 2nd at 1:15. I usually run them around 7:45 pace. Good luck!
I thought it was closer to two hours.


quick google: http://ezinearticles.com/?Human-Body-Energy-Stores-and-Losing-Weight&id=79246

500 grams... That is around 2 hours.
2010-06-22 10:34 AM
in reply to: #2933467

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Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions

You've gotten some good suggestions...  However, make sure that you check to see what will be offered on the course.  I've done two different half marathons (for a total of 5) and neither one has anything but water available on the course.  Also good to practice with whatever brand/flavor will be available.

For what it's worth - I have finished mine in just under 2 hours as well.  The first two, I didn't know what I was doing and had just water the whole time (and survived just fine - in fact those were probably the fastest two of the bunch!).  The others I did a gel about half way and would be what I would do going forward. 

Whatever you decide make sure to test it out in training!  Good luck!



2010-06-23 7:40 PM
in reply to: #2936401

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Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
camaleon - 2010-06-22 10:15 AM
Scout7 - 2010-06-22 6:51 AM
mateojives - 2010-06-22 6:38 AM Just a little medical FYI on this subject--the fuel your body uses most effectively during endurance events is glycogen, which is made from carbs, hence the importance of carbo loading for a few days before the race. However, no matter how much you train your glycogen will not last much longer than an hour, at which point your body switches over to burning other things that don't work as well as glycogen. This switch your body makes can be hard on your system and many studies have linked the depletion of glycogen stores to the common feeling of 'hitting the wall.' So, scientifically speaking, any endurance event lasting long than an hour will require some outside nutrition to keep your performance up. The best thing to eat is simple sugars, which are carbs your body can instantly use for energy. This is basically what Gu and sports drinks are, just a bunch of simple sugars, but they work great. When I run half marathons, I take 2 gels-- first one at 45 min and 2nd at 1:15. I usually run them around 7:45 pace. Good luck!
I thought it was closer to two hours.


quick google: http://ezinearticles.com/?Human-Body-Energy-Stores-and-Losing-Weight&id=79246

500 grams... That is around 2 hours.


Sorry, that's what I get typing a post on my phone and not wanting to explain myself (I hate these new touch-screen keyboards!).  Yes, the body can hold around 500g or glycogen, but half of that is in the liver, and half is in the muscles.  The muscle glycogen is exclusive to the muscles and cannot be used by any other organ.  The liver glycogen is used to fuel the rest of the body, most importantly the brain.

You guys are right, without any other food, your body will definitely run out of glycogen in 2 hrs, but after 1 hour adaption mechanisms start to come into play.  Fatty Acid metabolism and protein metabolism  get ramped up the lower glycogen stores get, because first and foremost your body will always provide nutrition to the brain before any other organ.  Luckily the heart doesn't really on glucose for energy, otherwise we'd all be screwed!  

Anyway, if you just want to complete a 2hr-ish event without any calories, is it possible?  Of course.  But if you want to maintain a high-energy output and have better recovery afterwards, glucose is pretty important before, during, and afterwards.  I need to go study up on this stuff some more, though.  Thanks for keeping  me honest  
2010-06-24 6:59 AM
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Subject: RE: HM Nutrition quesdtions
mateojives - 2010-06-22 7:38 AM

Just a little medical FYI on this subject--the fuel your body uses most effectively during endurance events is glycogen, which is made from carbs, hence the importance of carbo loading for a few days before the race.


Actually, at half marathon intensity, the body is using a combination of glycogen and fat.  It is not until the higher intensities that the contribution of fat metabolism becomes less important.  For an athlete running a half marathon under two hours, the percent of energy produced from fat metabolism is going to be on the order of 45-50%.

A trained individual will typically store 75-120 minutes worth of glycogen which means that any running under two hours for a half marathon will require only minimal on course nutrition and may not require any extra calories on course depending on how much glycogen they store and what they have eaten prior to the race start.

Here is an article on substrate utilization during exercise (it's a little older but it's free to read):

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/61/4/968S

Shane
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