FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING (Page 2)
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2010-06-26 5:13 PM in reply to: #2945230 |
Master 1325 Lake Oswego, OR | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING Interesting discussion, butr the question has no simple answer. However a few observations. Fat without a doubt floats better than muscle or bone, but triathletes who struggle with the swim don't do so because they are too lean. Remember the goal is not to float but to move forward. Good technique trumps fat every time. Triathletes don't focus on technique enough. That is not just doing drills, it is understanding what the drills are for and how to integrate them into your stroke. Also it's hard to focus on your stroke when you have Led Zeplin blasting in your ears. Black Eyed Peas are no better. It takes years to learn how to swim well. When did you learn to run? When was the first time you rode a bike? Good technique and power in the water make fat irrelevant. That's why masters swimmers can get away with more fat that a triathlete. A wetsuit in a triathlon floats so well it makes fat look like a lead weight in comparison. If you are short on breath, breathe as much as you can. There is a reason they put air restrictors on Indy cars - to reduce the power they can produce. Use alternating breathing in training only to even out your stroke. Better yet breathe to one side for a length and switch to the other side on the way back. Try to hold your form. Never swim after your stroke breaks down. It is counter productive and only reenforces bad technique. If you are winded at 500, take a 5 second rest at each hundred. It really makes a difference. If you don't swim well spend almost all your time in the water working on technique. Develop fitness during you cycle & run training. Before you take advise from people, ask if they have ever coached, or swam competitively. If not how fast can they swim. If people express opinions you want to know that they either taught people to swim fast, or learned the principles and could apply it to their own swimming. I could go on but I think what should be said is that with a few exceptions, people on this website are here to learn and help others. However, not everyone knows what they are talking about. You will never hear me give anyone here advise on cycling or running. I'm here to learn about those sports. |
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2010-06-26 6:39 PM in reply to: #2945666 |
Member 63 | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING DerekL - 2010-06-26 4:30 PM aquageek - 2010-06-26 4:25 PM It's almost incomprehensible that anyone is still stuck in the 1950s and still making assertions about body fat and swimming. If your only hope for swimming is fat, you've got rather dramatic swim problems. Learn good technique and lose weight, you will be faster. If you for a single second think fat will in any way assist with your swimming, you are 100% flat wrong. So are you going to just keep proclaiming that you're right and everybody else is wrong, or are you going to back up what you say with some evidence? Um, are you really asking me to back up that proper technique and being leaner is a better bet for swimming fast than being fat and floaty? Is that really the question? I'm not aware of any fast swimmer who has adopted the fat training method, but you knock yourself out. |
2010-06-26 6:50 PM in reply to: #2945760 |
Champion 8936 | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING aquageek - 2010-06-26 6:39 PM DerekL - 2010-06-26 4:30 PM aquageek - 2010-06-26 4:25 PM It's almost incomprehensible that anyone is still stuck in the 1950s and still making assertions about body fat and swimming. If your only hope for swimming is fat, you've got rather dramatic swim problems. Learn good technique and lose weight, you will be faster. If you for a single second think fat will in any way assist with your swimming, you are 100% flat wrong. So are you going to just keep proclaiming that you're right and everybody else is wrong, or are you going to back up what you say with some evidence? Um, are you really asking me to back up that proper technique and being leaner is a better bet for swimming fast than being fat and floaty? Is that really the question? I'm not aware of any fast swimmer who has adopted the fat training method, but you knock yourself out. You're having your own argument that has nothing to do with what everybody else is posting. |
2010-06-26 7:05 PM in reply to: #2945230 |
Expert 1690 | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING stop feeding the troll.... |
2010-06-26 8:01 PM in reply to: #2945230 |
Member 63 | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING Good drills for swimming (regardless of body fat): TTT (touch touch touch) - start both arms out front. Keep one arm out front and with the other do a straight arm back and touch your mid thigh, then straight arm forward again to top and then the other arm does that. Done partially on side. Catch Up (do 25 5 second delay, 25 four second delay, 25 three second, 25 two second, 25 one second, 25 regular) Both will reinforce proper body position. |
2010-06-26 9:49 PM in reply to: #2945760 |
Master 2372 | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING aquageek - 2010-06-26 6:39 PM DerekL - 2010-06-26 4:30 PM aquageek - 2010-06-26 4:25 PM It's almost incomprehensible that anyone is still stuck in the 1950s and still making assertions about body fat and swimming. If your only hope for swimming is fat, you've got rather dramatic swim problems. Learn good technique and lose weight, you will be faster. If you for a single second think fat will in any way assist with your swimming, you are 100% flat wrong. So are you going to just keep proclaiming that you're right and everybody else is wrong, or are you going to back up what you say with some evidence? Um, are you really asking me to back up that proper technique and being leaner is a better bet for swimming fast than being fat and floaty? Is that really the question? I'm not aware of any fast swimmer who has adopted the fat training method, but you knock yourself out. It has much less to do with fat content and more to do with frontal area. Correlation does not necessarily mean causation. The OP got a pretty darn good answer in post 2. |
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2010-06-27 3:18 PM in reply to: #2945230 |
Veteran 812 | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING I just found a great page showing various "swimmer types" and their various problems. Those with big strong muscles and low body fat might fit into the "Arnies" category. Geckoboy, does this sound like you: "• A tendency to fight the water rather than holding it, resulting in a relatively short stroke with a fast stroke rate. • Often complains about being out of breath and can only swim limited distances continuously. • Lifts their head high to breathe. • Large cross-overs at the front of the stroke and scissor kicks are common to see. • Generally quite frustrated that they are not as proficient at swimming as in other sports. Sometime this frustration is very strong and is bubbling just below the surface! • Finds relaxing in the water quite difficult (although they may be in denial about this!) and can be seen to be holding their breath in the water rather than exhaling. • Very poor body position due to high head position, lack of exhalation (buoyancy in the lungs), poor leg kick technique and limited core stability. • Limited swimming experience and low enjoyment of swimming. • Swimming speed is typically 1:45 to 2:10 per 100m." http://www.swimtypes.com/arnie.html There is also bunch of info on the ways to fix the problems common with each swimmer type. |
2010-06-27 3:49 PM in reply to: #2946554 |
Master 1325 Lake Oswego, OR | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING Interesting analysis. Clearly some of the statements are generalizations that do not apply to everyone, but some of it is right on. As for me I am a Swinger "Lots of rhythm and timing in the stroke - plenty of oomph. As a result they tend to race very well in open water"enty of oomph. As a result they tend to race very well in open |
2010-06-28 7:03 AM in reply to: #2945230 |
Extreme Veteran 536 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING Being highly muscular may be a disadvantage in swimming, at least in my opinion. Large, bulky muscles used for lifting heavy weights for few reps fatigue quickly in the repetition of a swim stroke. Keep swimming and the muscle endurance will come. All based on my personal experience from a weight lifting background. N=1. |
2010-06-28 7:35 AM in reply to: #2945230 |
Master 2277 Lake Norman, NC | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING Hey guys! Without my copius amounts of bodyfat I would sink like a rock! It's the only excuse I've got for keeping it. Please don't take that away from me! Nah! It's all in your head. It's all about form. It's all about steady smoothness. But mostly, it's in your head which is causing your breathing to get all screwy. Parts of this post may help: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=117554&start=1 A coach and some lessons are totally invaluable. You need someone trained who can watch you from the deck and from under the water to correct your form mistakes. Good luck! |
2010-06-28 8:01 AM in reply to: #2947525 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING fgray - 2010-06-28 8:03 AM Being highly muscular may be a disadvantage in swimming, at least in my opinion. Large, bulky muscles used for lifting heavy weights for few reps fatigue quickly in the repetition of a swim stroke. Keep swimming and the muscle endurance will come. All based on my personal experience from a weight lifting background. N=1. I agree 100%. That is why I was suggesting the WU / stretch / WU routine. I find that helpful to get my chest, triceps and shoulders loosened up so they get out of my way. After a while they seem to go back to sleep and let the slow twitch take over. I will stop lifting as part of my taper so I can remove that factor. |
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2010-06-28 8:05 AM in reply to: #2945230 |
Member 32 Belfast | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING How entertaining is this post? Crumbs we're a highly strung bunch aren't we. My input from experience follows. I swam competitively as a school kid - 6 days a week in the pool. I was ok, but not brill. This year I did a 5000m charity pool swim (1:19:13) and took up triathlon. For the charityswim I looked at and worked at Total Immersion( TI) technique and paced the swim at about 1:34/1:35 per 100. I could not have done this with my "school boy" technique. I simply would have burned out. TI got me through it. HOWEVER One thing I noticed whilst initially transitioning to TI was a chronic loss in swim fitness / ability to swim fast. So much so that my initial attempt a couple of years ago was abandoned. I didn't want to swim slower. I appreciate that for anything I want to do in Triathlon I will not be able to swim as fast as I can using TI, even in open water. I have however learned to lengthen my stroke and spend more time in streamlined position in the water. The TI training has improved my stroke in that respect and I believe I swim, maybe not necessarily much faster, but certainly more efficiently as a result of modifying my stroke. What I'm working on now is strength training and speed drills to get the times down. To the original poster. TI will not make you the fastest in the field, but in the early days, it will get you comfortable through the swim and in a fit state to complete the race. A work colleague who could not swim 50m at Christmas completed his first Oly last month in 1hr 20min (2nd in his age group only because his timing chip got caught on wet suit in T1) because he taught himself the TI technique. He has only one speed in the water, but he more than makes up for it in the other 2 disciplines. Ultimately you want to enjoy the race. I understand a lot of triathletes look at the swim as something to be endured. I don't believe it has to be that way. Swim fitness will come with more swimming. Stick with it. |
2010-06-28 8:16 AM in reply to: #2945230 |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING A work colleague who could not swim 50m at Christmas completed his first Oly last month in 1hr 20min Seriously? |
2010-06-28 8:34 AM in reply to: #2947643 |
Member 63 | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING Really - that's rough, 5:20/100 pace. |
2010-06-28 8:48 AM in reply to: #2947643 |
Member 32 Belfast | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING Oops my bad. 2hr 20. He's fast on the bike but not that fast. If it hadn't been for the 5 foot swell everyone (including him) would have been 10-15 minutes faster. |
2010-06-28 11:22 AM in reply to: #2945230 |
10 | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING Ive been swimming for close to 7 yrs competitively. form is everything. you need to make sure that you have high elbows, are breathing in the right place, a straight back and are kicking without much knee bend. on another note, exhaustion is relative. even after swimming for 7 yrs i still pant like a dog after a long or short race. you should keep swimming, form and power will come with experience. |
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2010-06-28 11:22 AM in reply to: #2945230 |
10 | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING Ive been swimming for close to 7 yrs competitively. form is everything. you need to make sure that you have high elbows, are breathing in the right place, a straight back and are kicking without much knee bend. on another note, exhaustion is relative. even after swimming for 7 yrs i still pant like a dog after a long or short race. you should keep swimming, form and power will come with experience. |
2010-06-28 11:38 AM in reply to: #2945230 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING geckoboy - 2010-06-26 12:17 AM Looking for any advice anyone can give me. I did my first tri in March of this year it was very short but enough to get my feet wet. My problem is i'm a decent runner and biker but swimming is without a doubt my weakness. I have been attending swimming classes since last October. My question is I get so fatigued during lap swimming for example today we swam 500 meters without stopping when I finally finished I was panting and out of breath and this happens during long swim sessions. My swim coach said the reason this is happening is because she is pushing us in class. I think I may be doing something wrong because no one else seems to be as worn out as I am during these long swims. I'm 200 pounds, muscular build with 7 percent body fat so you get the picture. My swim coach told me this is the very reason why it's so hard for me. Can anyone recommend any exercises and or drills to help me? Your issues more likely are due to lack of specific swim fitness and poor swim technique (body position, stroke, balance, etc.) I beg to differ with you swim coach; I personally don't think body composition is a major issue at all, but that's my 1st impression with the little info provided. I coach or have coached athletes with 20> % body fat and some with ~5% and trust me, body comp. is not their bigger limiter as to why they struggle performance-wise. It took them a lot of swimming (certainly a lot for what the average AGer swims per week) for them to learn how to fix their technique, swim faster and be able to go distance without fatiguing as much. |
2010-06-28 11:39 AM in reply to: #2945666 |
Expert 934 FL | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING Back to the OP's question. Sounds like you are getting fatiged in the middle of your swim session. How about going to the pool when you are not doing a plan/swim session with coach and with a day break after the last time in the pool. Do a 100yrd warm up, take a break for a few min and then try to swim a controlled pace for as far as you can go. I bet you will be able to go alot more than 500. |
2010-06-28 12:31 PM in reply to: #2945230 |
Regular 75 | Subject: RE: FATIGUE DURING SWIMMING If the OP is 200lb and 7% BF, couldn't muscle-mass be an issue with fatigue? I am new to swimming and biking, but I know with running the more muscle your body has to get oxygen to the quicker you get winded. Just a question/point from a new member. |
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