General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Help with Video Analysis - SWIMMERS???? Rss Feed  
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2005-07-11 12:02 PM

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Subject: Help with Video Analysis - SWIMMERS????
Hey, all... the flaws in my stroke are pretty obvious from the swim video I took this weekend (HIGHLY recommend taping your swim. The feedback is PRICELESS - even from just a buddy with an 8mm camcorder on the pool deck!).

Anyway, here are the things I noticed are bad. I'd appreciate some specific drill suggestions to fix them...

1) Crossing over, especially with the left hand. Causing me to "fish" back and forth instead of going straight.

2) Fingers open instead of hand closed and cupped.

3) Lead arm falling out of position when I breathe (still lifting head??)

4) I seem to be stopping my elbow and anchoring it just above my head and swinging my arm below it like a pendulum in the recovery. Not sure if this is right or not.

5) (Along with 4?? Consequence of 4?) I think my hand is entering the water too far ahead of my head.

6) Maybe not enough body roll... maybe too much. Opinions on how much is enough?

If anybody can tell me how to post video clips, I'll try to post it for analysis...





2005-07-11 12:20 PM
in reply to: #194846


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Subject: RE: Help with Video Analysis - SWIMMERS????
alright here are some swim tips and drills that might help. The cross over, this will help when you work on body roll and just being aware of what you are doing. When you swim pay attention to your hands and there is a imaganry line down the middle of your body, your hands/arms should not cross over, i.e. your belly button, to pevent this you should roll this way it shouldn't happen. When people swim flat, this is a tendency. One of my fav drills to do to work on the whole stroke and it allows me to watch my hands and what they are doing is what is called the "six, kick switch" you should be rolled on your side, one arm up in front, half of a streamline, your head relaxed near your extended arm, face in, hips should have one up in the air and one pointed down at the bottom, same goes for shoulders, you hold this position for a coutn of six, then you switch sides by taking a stroke and rolling to the other side, when you need to breath just roll your head to the side, your body should all ready be rolled. This drill works your balance, rolling hand entry, etc.

With the fingers, you don't want to force a cup but you don't want to swim all opened hand, try using some swim paddles, those sometimes help, all lot of it is just being more aware of what your body is doing, like say if you are going to swim like a 200, just think about what your hands are doing, practice makes perfect.

With the hand entry you do not want it close to your head, cause you won't pull yourself very far, as long as you are rolling you should have nice extension. It is very imporant during the pull phase of the stroke (underwater part) to keep the elbow up and pull with the whole forarm, its like a lever.

Also something to look for in your pull, see how much air bubbles you have if, you have a lot you are pulling more air than water, the key is to baerly have any bubbles when you pull under the water.

Again with the roll, you should not roll to your back, just so that you are on your side. Hope this helps.

Take care,

Kelly in Tampa
2005-07-11 12:24 PM
in reply to: #194846

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Subject: RE: Help with Video Analysis - SWIMMERS????
1) This isn't an official drill, but imagine a straight line down the center of your body, head to toe(s)...now, don't ever cross that line with your hands. Sounds simple, but it's difficult sometimes to do. Also, try doing the catchup drill (if you don't know this one, lemme know and I'll explain it!) because I find with myself that most of the crossing over is due to my hands dropping too soon and of course, crossing.

2) There aren't really any drills that I can think of...just do laps where you concentrate on that. Note: your arms will probably hurt a bunch when you transition from open to cupped hands -- so work up to doing a significant number of laps with cupped hands :-P

3) again, I'd suggest the catch up drill to keep your hands up, but this sounds like it could be due to you lifting your head up to breath instead of turning your head. So work on breathing by turning your head -- try to swim and when you breath, always keep one goggle in the water (your mouth should just be barely out of the water)....this really only will work in a pool, not in OW, but at least you can work on side breathing instead of breathing via lifting your head

4) that should be about right -- just keep that swinging hand close to your body! (the video would be good here )

5) er yea, would have to see it

6) you should definitely be rolling your body. But make sure it comes from your hips, not your shoulders (here's where a strong core comes into play!). I can't think of like a proper angle that your body should be...again, the video would help for this.


Hope this helps!

And don't hesitate at all to post additional questions.
2005-07-11 12:35 PM
in reply to: #194846

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Subject: RE: Help with Video Analysis - SWIMMERS????
Thanks for the responses so far...

Let me clarify a couple things... as for the "hand in the water too far out" - Several of my form "sources" (TI, TriSwimCoach, etc.) indicate that one should enter the hand in the water just beyond the head (while the elbow is still bent) then extend the arm underwater (or nearly so) to full extension as you rotate...

This as opposed to fully extending the arm above the waterline and dropping the whole thing into the water at full extension (an exaggeration of what I'm doing).

I do understand that this hand entry thing is apparently a bit of a controversial issue... just not sure what's "right", and pretty sure what I'm doing is "wrong"...

I'll definitely do the "catchup" drills some more, as I can definitely see how they would help me get a feel for where the centerline is.

Also, is it possible I'm dropping my hand during the breath because I'm breathing at the wrong *time* in the stroke? It kindof feels like I'm pulling with that hand at the same time as I would if I were not breathing (rhythm is the same), but I'm still breathing as my arm comes back... I dunno... I need to get the video up... anybody know how???
2005-07-11 12:51 PM
in reply to: #194846

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Subject: RE: Help with Video Analysis - SWIMMERS????

BGTwinDad - 2005-07-11 12:02 PM Hey, all... the flaws in my stroke are pretty obvious from the swim video I took this weekend (HIGHLY recommend taping your swim. The feedback is PRICELESS - even from just a buddy with an 8mm camcorder on the pool deck!). Anyway, here are the things I noticed are bad. I'd appreciate some specific drill suggestions to fix them... 1) Crossing over, especially with the left hand. Causing me to "fish" back and forth instead of going straight. 2) Fingers open instead of hand closed and cupped. 3) Lead arm falling out of position when I breathe (still lifting head??) 4) I seem to be stopping my elbow and anchoring it just above my head and swinging my arm below it like a pendulum in the recovery. Not sure if this is right or not. 5) (Along with 4?? Consequence of 4?) I think my hand is entering the water too far ahead of my head. 6) Maybe not enough body roll... maybe too much. Opinions on how much is enough? If anybody can tell me how to post video clips, I'll try to post it for analysis...

My $0.02:

1) One-armed drills are good. Also, emphasising really stretching in front of you, as in reaching for the opposite wall (goes hand-n hand with emphasizing body role).

2) Actually, swimming with your hands open isn't a bad thing. http://www.coachesinfo.com/category/swimming/153/

3) You may be lifting your head.  With a good body rool, you shouldn't need to turn your head much to breath. If you just let it rotate along with your shoulders, your lead hand shouldn't slip water as much.

4) Sounds like exactly what you want to have happen.

5) Try fingertip drills. On your recovery, drag your fingertips across the top of the water and brush your ear with your thumb. That'll keep you from over-reaching.

6) You can roll so the your side is pointing toward the bottom of the pool, no more.

2005-07-11 1:07 PM
in reply to: #194846

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Subject: RE: Help with Video Analysis - SWIMMERS????
How big is the video clip file?  I can post it in my personal web space if it isn't too large.


2005-07-11 1:12 PM
in reply to: #194892

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Subject: RE: Help with Video Analysis - SWIMMERS????
BGTwinDad - 2005-07-11 11:35 AM

Also, is it possible I'm dropping my hand during the breath because I'm breathing at the wrong *time* in the stroke? It kindof feels like I'm pulling with that hand at the same time as I would if I were not breathing (rhythm is the same), but I'm still breathing as my arm comes back... I dunno... I need to get the video up... anybody know how???


Dropping your hand while breathing happens to everyone (yet another reason why it's better to learn to do many strokes per breath -- breathing messes up your stroke!) but I don't know about when to breath, like in relation to where my hands are.

Again, if you've got the video....

RE:Video....if you can get it onto your computer you can probably use something like Windows Movie Maker to edit it and get it into a nice size for the internet (small!) and then once that's done, usually with your isp you'll get free webhosting, or just signup for a free website from tripod or something...
2005-07-11 3:34 PM
in reply to: #194953

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Subject: RE: Help with Video Analysis - SWIMMERS????
Dunno yet. I just got the DVD today. I'll have to get it on my Mac at home to work on it. It's less than 2 minutes total, though...
2005-07-11 10:00 PM
in reply to: #194846

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Subject: RE: Help with Video Analysis - SWIMMERS????
open handed is no big deal. Watch the Endless Pool sales videos online and you'll see a former Olympian swimming exactly like that. Just be relaxed. Crossing over should be correctable with catch-up drills, either with or without the kickboard. Also underwater swimming, ie entire stroke done under water with no elbow in the air arm recovery. Imagine pulling yourself along an underwater rope. Ti drills should help with the falling arm, ie learning to just roll to the air.

Crossing over can also be a symptom of weak shoulder muscles. If its just one arm, look into some rotator cuff exercises, and drills to strengthen subscapular muscles that help keep the shoulder in line.
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General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Help with Video Analysis - SWIMMERS???? Rss Feed