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Pacing for IM bike
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 2010-07-26 12:32 PM |
Extreme Veteran  1942     In front of computer when typing this. |  Subject: Pacing for IM bikeI'm curious how people pace their IM bikes. I have heard that the actual IM ride should be at a pretty easy pace given the other things you have to do that day. I'm curious how most people define it. Since power numbers don't mean much to me, lets assume you are on a course that mimics your training routes very closely and conditions are similar (just to get the "every race is different, wind varies, etc. out of the way). So assuming similar terrain/conditions, how would you pace your IM bike. As a benchmark, say your long training rides (80-100miles) average 20mph, just because that is a nice, round number to work with. Would you ride the IM at 20? 19? 18? |
| 2010-07-26 12:44 PM in reply to: #3004975 |
Champion 9600  Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike In general, it's a good idea to pace based off of a percentage of your bike LT/AT, but that what it may and depending on your fitness. You can use power or HR or RPE to manage that once you make the determination. MPH is not a great way to pace. |
| 2010-07-26 1:05 PM in reply to: #3005010 |
Master 2381 Frisco, Texas | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike Agree with Bryan...mph is not a good way to pace. Let's try this. Using an RPE scale where 1 is very easy, 5 is moderate intensity, 10 is very hard intensity. I would pace the I'M bike this way: first 1/3 at RPE 4; second 1/3 at 5; depending on how the day is going and how I'm feeling the third 1/3 would be at RPE 6 if feeling good or 5 if feeling not so good. |
| 2010-07-26 1:09 PM in reply to: #3004975 |
Pro 4277 Parker, CO | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike I agree that mph is not a good way to pace. having only done one IM I wore my heart rate monitor. my goal was to stay in zone 2. which for the most part I did. In hindsight, I think I could have pushed it a little more...but you never know. |
| 2010-07-26 1:09 PM in reply to: #3005010 |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike bryancd - 2010-07-26 1:44 PM In general, it's a good idea to pace based off of a percentage of your bike LT/AT, but that what it may and depending on your fitness. You can use power or HR or RPE to manage that once you make the determination. MPH is not a great way to pace. I know MPH is not great but to me it ties in closely with RPE. I am not keen on using HR because I find my HR to be "strange" in races because it is usually high coming out of the water- higher than it normally would be starting a bike. The last HIM I did, my HR was in the mid-150s coming out of the water and my normal average HR on a long ride is in the 125-135 range (depending on effort, etc.). So the swim before throws things off, at least for the first part of the bike. And I don't have a power meter, hence the question about pace. If you were to go on RPE, would that be an RPE equivalent to that of your long rides, slightly less or a lot less? I was trying to get at that in my MPH scenario. For me, 20mph is a solid long ride. 19 would be quite a bit easier and 18 would be an easy pace. I'm just trying to get a sense of how that ride would ideally be paced. |
| 2010-07-26 1:10 PM in reply to: #3004975 |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike Sorry, while I was being long-winded several others chimed in. Sorry guys :-) |
| 2010-07-26 1:16 PM in reply to: #3005095 |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike MPH is not a great way to pace. This is especially true if the course is hilly or windy. HR is better, but even that will get some drift over a long course, and you may hit threshold on steep climbs before your HR spikes. Power meters are instant unbiased feedback, but they're expensive of course  Edit: another good thing to practice if you're not using a power meter, is to try and ride the 2nd half equal to or better than the 1st half. That forces you to really pace yourself early on. Edited by spudone 2010-07-26 1:17 PM |
| 2010-07-26 1:17 PM in reply to: #3005069 |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike zia_cyclist - 2010-07-26 2:05 PM Agree with Bryan...mph is not a good way to pace. Let's try this. Using an RPE scale where 1 is very easy, 5 is moderate intensity, 10 is very hard intensity. I would pace the I'M bike this way: first 1/3 at RPE 4; second 1/3 at 5; depending on how the day is going and how I'm feeling the third 1/3 would be at RPE 6 if feeling good or 5 if feeling not so good. zia_cyclist, what RPE would you do your long rides at? Around a 5? 8? I'm pretty consistent in my long ride RPE and pace (in general, all else being equal) and know what that feeling is. They tend to be, for me, in the 5+ range (I don't noodle around and try to hit a pace that I can maintain for the duration of the ride). |
| 2010-07-26 1:20 PM in reply to: #3005095 |
Extreme Veteran 408 Spokane, Wa | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike I agree with everyone else. MPH is not a good way to pace, but I think it's because I tend to be a little faster on race day without putting out much effort. Heart is also a little tricky for the fact that you have some adrenaline going and that make your heart rate a little higher. I train with a heart rate monitor but i don't race with it. I think its important to know how you feel at different heart rates, but don't be a slave to technology. I guess in a round about way I'm saying just do what feels right. However, if your planning on racing hard you have to train hard. Don't expect any race day magic. |
| 2010-07-26 1:25 PM in reply to: #3004975 |
| over a barrier | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike I generally tell people, if they feel like they are working, slow down. |
| 2010-07-26 1:28 PM in reply to: #3004975 |
| Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike Certainly no expert, but my long rides had traffic, etc, so my IM speed was actually a bit faster than my long training rides. I was told, and tried to listen to, the advise that if you feel you are in the right gear, downshift one gear..... Not so sure I was always able to do that, but at IMAZ (3 loops) my 2d and 3d loop were about the same, and slightly faster than my first, although I felt much worse. |
| 2010-07-26 1:29 PM in reply to: #3005089 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike louiskie - 2010-07-26 12:09 PM bryancd - 2010-07-26 1:44 PM In general, it's a good idea to pace based off of a percentage of your bike LT/AT, but that what it may and depending on your fitness. You can use power or HR or RPE to manage that once you make the determination. MPH is not a great way to pace. I know MPH is not great but to me it ties in closely with RPE. I am not keen on using HR because I find my HR to be "strange" in races because it is usually high coming out of the water- higher than it normally would be starting a bike. The last HIM I did, my HR was in the mid-150s coming out of the water and my normal average HR on a long ride is in the 125-135 range (depending on effort, etc.). So the swim before throws things off, at least for the first part of the bike. And I don't have a power meter, hence the question about pace. If you were to go on RPE, would that be an RPE equivalent to that of your long rides, slightly less or a lot less? I was trying to get at that in my MPH scenario. For me, 20mph is a solid long ride. 19 would be quite a bit easier and 18 would be an easy pace. I'm just trying to get a sense of how that ride would ideally be paced. That would work only if you raced the exact same route and conditions you train in otherwise it's too variable. I'm sure your training rides result in very similar paces and RPE's, so do mine because I ride the same time and same roads every week. I wouldn't argue against RPE but I would suggest that HR isn't as variable as you think as you have indentified your personal variablities. The key to HR pacing in a race is to understand when and where the numbers will be different and adjust accordingly. |
| 2010-07-26 1:37 PM in reply to: #3004975 |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike This is very helpful. Thanks for the insights. I was throwing out the MPH numbers (even though it is not a good method) as a proxy for RPE/HR/power ASSUMING the exact same conditions but I understand where you are coming from. Heck, for all I know, it will be wind-in-my-face and uphill both ways come race day! :-) |
| 2010-07-26 1:39 PM in reply to: #3004975 |
Expert 696 Sugar Hill, GA | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike Hey, You and I are in similar situations, I'm preparing for IM Louisville and spent a lot of time trying to figure out my pacing. I took a quick look at your logs, the training is coming along nicely. Now start extending the distance of your long rides. The 100 mile rides that I've done preparing for IM have been invaluable far beyond the fitness that they have provided. Not only did they make sure that I nailed down my nutrition plan for IM but now I know how to pace my IM ride if I want to go by RPE and I have my heartrate data for those rides if I want to ride based on HR. You've got lots of time between now and B2B. Enjoy. |
| 2010-07-26 3:04 PM in reply to: #3005089 |
Veteran 812 | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike louiskie - I know MPH is not great but to me it ties in closely with RPE. I am not keen on using HR because I find my HR to be "strange" in races because it is usually high coming out of the water- higher than it normally would be starting a bike. The last HIM I did, my HR was in the mid-150s coming out of the water and my normal average HR on a long ride is in the 125-135 range (depending on effort, etc.). So the swim before throws things off, at least for the first part of the bike. There's already consensus here, but MPH is terrible. If there's a 10mph wind, it'll totally screw up any MPH effort calculations you're doing in your head. And I find RPE a bit difficult during a race. There's a lot of adrenaline and excitement during a race, and you may feel great (low effort) when you're actually pushing yourself too hard. Your HRM is probably telling the truth. So, you just have to decide and be prepared for a relatively high HR at the start of your ride, or to slow down and let your HR drop. 2 cents. |
| 2010-07-26 3:07 PM in reply to: #3005150 |
Master 1222 Lafayette, IN | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike running2far - 2010-07-26 1:25 PM I generally tell people, if they feel like they are working, slow down. I like this^. Simple, easy to understand, easy to gauge out on the course. I am a huge HR user and I am aware of the lag, so this will be valuable riding the IMWI bike course! Thanks! Edited by Gregkl 2010-07-26 3:07 PM |
| 2010-07-26 3:10 PM in reply to: #3004975 |
Elite 3658 Roswell, GA | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike I did B2B last year as my first IM and I struggled with this same thing. Everyone above is telling you the truth. MPH is something you look at the next day and spend the rest of the year thinking about. You need to ride really easy. So easy you can run a marathon after the ride. I stayed in zone 2 also, and I think it was a bit too slow. Then again, I had a good run. Ahh, the trade off. |
| 2010-07-26 3:16 PM in reply to: #3005489 |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike brown_dog_us - 2010-07-26 4:10 PM I did B2B last year as my first IM and I struggled with this same thing. Everyone above is telling you the truth. MPH is something you look at the next day and spend the rest of the year thinking about. You need to ride really easy. So easy you can run a marathon after the ride. I stayed in zone 2 also, and I think it was a bit too slow. Then again, I had a good run. Ahh, the trade off. I guess it comes back to that saying: "in the event you went too easy on the bike, you have 26 miles to make up for it on the run". I'll be fiddling around with all this for the next couple of months. Thanks for the input everyone. |
| 2010-07-26 3:20 PM in reply to: #3005510 |
Elite 4235 Spring, TX | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike louiskie - 2010-07-26 3:16 PM I guess it comes back to that saying: "in the event you went too easy on the bike, you have 26 miles to make up for it on the run". I'll be fiddling around with all this for the next couple of months. Thanks for the input everyone. I like that quote. I heard another that went something like "find a pace that feels like you can hold all day long...and then slow it down a notch." I covered up the speed readout on my computer, so I had no idea how fast I was going. All I wanted to see was my power output... |
| 2010-07-27 8:35 PM in reply to: #3005122 |
Master 2381 Frisco, Texas | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike louiskie - 2010-07-26 1:17 PM zia_cyclist - 2010-07-26 2:05 PM Agree with Bryan...mph is not a good way to pace. Let's try this. Using an RPE scale where 1 is very easy, 5 is moderate intensity, 10 is very hard intensity. I would pace the I'M bike this way: first 1/3 at RPE 4; second 1/3 at 5; depending on how the day is going and how I'm feeling the third 1/3 would be at RPE 6 if feeling good or 5 if feeling not so good. zia_cyclist, what RPE would you do your long rides at? Around a 5? 8? I'm pretty consistent in my long ride RPE and pace (in general, all else being equal) and know what that feeling is. They tend to be, for me, in the 5+ range (I don't noodle around and try to hit a pace that I can maintain for the duration of the ride). I brought up RPE based on your question. I was trying to 'level the playing field' since the discussion was mph, HR, etc. Personnaly, I use HR. I know my zones and stick to them. My long rides are mostly steady state (Friel z2-3). I'll throw in some tempo (Friel z4) intervals within the long ride, depending on my training plan.
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| 2010-07-27 9:00 PM in reply to: #3005069 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike zia_cyclist - 2010-07-26 1:05 PM Agree with Bryan...mph is not a good way to pace. Let's try this. Using an RPE scale where 1 is very easy, 5 is moderate intensity, 10 is very hard intensity. I would pace the I'M bike this way: first 1/3 at RPE 4; second 1/3 at 5; depending on how the day is going and how I'm feeling the third 1/3 would be at RPE 6 if feeling good or 5 if feeling not so good. If you are using the adjusted Borg's adjusted scale and based on A. Coggan power/HR threshold levels and how they related to RPE your suggestion for RPE pacing is rather aggressive IMO unless you are an elite AGers (placing at major races) or a pro. (see below)  OP - if you plan to pace using other than power or HR then I would go on the RPE 1-10 scale around <2 for the first half and 2-3 on the 2nd. Since most of your training most likely will on RPE 2-3 anyway, that's the reason the 1st half would feel almost too easy. I would limit feeling RPE of 4-5 for some steep hills and avoid going over altogether for the entire race. Adjusted Borg's table below  |
| 2010-08-06 11:49 AM in reply to: #3004975 |
| DC | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike I wanna chime in--even though it's already been said. One reply to the same question I had last year went a little something like this, "the bike should feel stupid easy". Good luck & conrats for making it this far. (Think about how may BT'ers ask this question!) |
| 2010-08-06 12:16 PM in reply to: #3027692 |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike Porfirio - 2010-08-06 12:49 PM I wanna chime in--even though it's already been said. One reply to the same question I had last year went a little something like this, "the bike should feel stupid easy". Good luck & conrats for making it this far. (Think about how may BT'ers ask this question!) All of this is very helpful! I like the "should feel stupid easy"...that gives a good sense of what it should be. It seems hard to imagine being in a race and riding that easy but I guess the race is long so you have to hold back a lot. :-) |
| 2010-08-06 1:09 PM in reply to: #3004975 |
Elite 3088 Austin, TX Gold member | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike I don't necessarily agree with the "stupid easy" part, but I agree with when it feels like work. I use power and will base my pacing off that. But I also know that the appropriate tempo is just before it feels like I'm working. My HIM pace is just on the other side of that line. |
| 2010-08-06 3:32 PM in reply to: #3027938 |
| DC | Subject: RE: Pacing for IM bike dgunthert - 2010-08-06 1:09 PM I don't necessarily agree with the "stupid easy" part, but I agree with when it feels like work. I use power and will base my pacing off that. But I also know that the appropriate tempo is just before it feels like I'm working. My HIM pace is just on the other side of that line. I think for a lot of folks who aren't heart-rate, power-meter, etc savvy, or who are just outright nervous, "stupid easy" is an appropriate approach. Sometimes I think we over-think it. Particularly if you want to cross the finish line under 17 hours. |
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