General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan Rss Feed  
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2010-08-03 9:38 AM

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Subject: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan
If I read this correctly, he suggests a 5K race and a 10K race on most every third weekend, at one point in the plan.  My volumes are consistant with this plan.  But, I've been under the impression (with NO science behind it, admittedly) that I'm better off doing a long run, in lieu of the race (I've also had trouble, believe it or not, locating convenient races to enter).

Is my approach "OK"?  Or, am I better off just doing the 5K/10K "race" in training (in lieu of another long run)?

Thanks.


2010-08-03 9:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan
Depends on the person.

Personally, I think the races are important, because of two things:

1) They let you adjust training efforts based on current information gathered from races.

2) They serve as great practice for managing effort in an actual race, and help you work on handling the special issues that arise from racing (nerves, nutrition, etc.).

Some people don't feel the need for the races, and that works for them. I think it's a personal choice, but there is a lot of usefulness from doing those races over another long run.
2010-08-03 10:00 AM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan
My wife uses that plan and has had good success when she follows it as it is designed. Last year she set a new PR using this plan and recently she finished 3rd in AG on a very tough course. A week later she crushed her old PR in a 10K.

IMO you won't get the same results by substituting a long run in place of a race. The race will be done at high intensity, while the long run will not. You may be able to simulate racing if you can't find an actual race. For example - the plan calls for a 15K race and we don't have any here. So I ran as a pace rabbit for my wife so she could get this run completed. It worked well and made her run faster than she would have on her own.

IMO, if you're going to follow a plan, then use it as it's designed. It's OK to switch days around to accomodate life's demands, but making big changes in substituting differing kinds of workouts is not likely to provide good results.
2010-08-03 10:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan
This is for your first HM?  And you've been running less than a year?  (Myabe I'm wrong here, just what I thought I recall from past questions.)  If so, I don't think this is likely to be a good plan for you.  It is written for an experienced runner who is ready for for BOTH the volume & intensity.
2010-08-03 12:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan
+1 to what Scout said..  I've used the intermediate plan before with good success myself..  If you already have a good grasp on where your fitness is, you may benefit by substituting those planned races for another long run, and then you could insert a tempo or steady state run midweek (assuming you have a base strong enough to handle this load without putting yourself at risk for injury).  Have you run any 1/2's before and what kind of weekly mileage were you doing before starting Higdon's plan?  What are your goals for this 1/2, just to finish or do you have a certain time in mind?
2010-08-03 12:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan
JohnnyKay - 2010-08-03 11:07 AM This is for your first HM?  And you've been running less than a year?  (Myabe I'm wrong here, just what I thought I recall from past questions.)  If so, I don't think this is likely to be a good plan for you.  It is written for an experienced runner who is ready for for BOTH the volume & intensity.


Ah, that's how I wanted to word my question.  I can do runs over 10 miles without breathing hard but I experience fatigue in my legs.  How do you know when you can start increasing the intensity?  From what I have read thus far, you want to do one or the other so I've been mainly focused on volume.  I want my speed to increase but I don't want injury so when do I know I'm ready to step up the pace. 


2010-08-03 12:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan
Pector55 - 2010-08-03 1:40 PM

JohnnyKay - 2010-08-03 11:07 AM This is for your first HM?  And you've been running less than a year?  (Myabe I'm wrong here, just what I thought I recall from past questions.)  If so, I don't think this is likely to be a good plan for you.  It is written for an experienced runner who is ready for for BOTH the volume & intensity.


Ah, that's how I wanted to word my question.  I can do runs over 10 miles without breathing hard but I experience fatigue in my legs.  How do you know when you can start increasing the intensity?  From what I have read thus far, you want to do one or the other so I've been mainly focused on volume.  I want my speed to increase but I don't want injury so when do I know I'm ready to step up the pace. 


Couple different schools of thought on this.

Personally, I would go with the school of thought that higher effort work can be done year-round, once a person gets about a season or so of consistent training. That means running 4+ times/week for a season. After the season, you hit some tempo or hill runs once every 7-10 days (so about 3-4 times a month). The real "speedwork" comes in when you are about 10-12 weeks out from your goal race. Once you start incorporating the real high-effort stuff, your total weekly volume will naturally drop (it generally has to because you are running shorter distances, plus you need greater recovery time).

I would say that most people do NOT need intervals to see improvements for a long time. Most people (triathletes especially) are better off sticking to adding volume, and incorporating higher efforts once a week, such as a tempo or progression run. In recent years, I've done intervals a total of 1 time, but still saw improvements across the board by running lots of miles.
2010-08-03 12:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan
From what I know of the plan, I think the race is to get you to get used to the race atmosphere and do some runs at higher intensity (shorter distance) as those are typically your 3rd or 4th week of a period so it should be easier overall, similar to tapering for a race.

Compare Higdons plan to the FIRST type plans where everything is interval work, with much less volume, both can work.
2010-08-03 3:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan

Little history...

I upped my frequency a short time ago to (I try!) 5X/wk..  At first, I didn't increase my volume very much.  But, I gradually have gotten it to (just last week) 30mi./wk.  I've never run a stand-alone 5K; 10K or any other race.  My ONLY race experience is my 2 tris I've done (sprints - with 5K run legs).   I "think" I ran: April - 54mi.; May - 60mi.; June - 70mi. and July 108mi..  That's close, anyways.

I have no delusions of grandeur about the HM.  I'll go out, run my race and let the time fall wherever it does.  No timing aspirations.  How could I?

My runs last week (and I'll mirror them, this week) were: 5.85mi., run at as near to my max as I can; 4.5mi. at an easy pace; 6mi. - easy; 4mi. - a little elevated exertion and my long run for the week (which was 11mi., last week) - run at a relatively easy pace. 

Like Pector, I can handle the long runs, aerobically.  They do tax my legs, though.  They've become progressively easier to recover from (started with a 7mi.; then an 8.3mi.; two 9mi.'ers and the recent 11mi.'er, Saturday).  My concern is, if I run a 5K or 10K in place of the weekly long run, it'll drop my volume (for that week), extensively.

Hence my post.....

Thanks, so much, for your input.

jeff



Edited by nc452010 2010-08-03 3:16 PM
2010-08-03 3:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan
nc452010 - 2010-08-03 4:13 PM

Little history...

I upped my frequency a short time ago to (I try!) 5X/wk..  At first, I didn't increase my volume very much.  But, I gradually have gotten it to (just last week) 30mi./wk.  I've never run a stand-alone 5K; 10K or any other race.  My ONLY race experience is my 2 tris I've done (sprints - with 5K run legs).   I "think" I ran: April - 54mi.; May - 60mi.; June - 70mi. and July 108mi..  That's close, anyways.

I have no delusions of grandeur about the HM.  I'll go out, run my race and let the time fall wherever it does.  No timing aspirations.  How could I?

My runs last week (and I'll mirror them, this week) were: 5.85mi., run at as near to my max as I can; 4.5mi. at an easy pace; 6mi. - easy; 4mi. - a little elevated exertion and my long run for the week (which was 11mi., last week) - run at a relatively easy pace. 

Like Pector, I can handle the long runs, aerobically.  They do tax my legs, though.  They've become progressively easier to recover from (started with a 7mi.; then an 8.3mi.; two 9mi.'ers and the recent 11mi.'er, Saturday).  My concern is, if I run a 5K or 10K in place of the weekly long run, it'll drop my volume (for that week), extensively.

Hence my post.....

Thanks, so much, for your input.

jeff



I personally would keep the long runs and not do races.
In your case you are effectively doing a 8km-10km race every week according to what you wrote, so why would you add another race on top of that hard effort every 3rd week? Speaking of the 5.85mi all out effort. What is the reason you have decided to do that every week?
2010-08-03 4:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan
Well, the general consensus on the forum seems to be....to run - most times easy, sometimes hard.

Gotta pick one of those runs to comply with the "sometimes hard".  That one seemed as good as any other.

Not scientific, by any stretch.  But, I'm just being honest.


2010-08-03 8:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan
something else to keep in mind, if/when you do add races in, and nothing else changes that week aside from changing the long run to a race, your overall training LOAD is not changing that much.

training load is a combination of volume and intensity, so you are trading a bit of volume for more quality work.

also another thing to keep in mind with adding races in. given the exact same fitness, the more times you have raced (assuming you didn't overdo it), the faster you'll be able to go in a given race just from knowing HOW to race. knowing what it feels like, and just how far you can push yourself, and what the warning signs are, makes you a much better and capable athlete.

just some food for thought.
2010-08-03 8:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan
I think a 10K race would be be a good training test for a HM.  A couple years ago my first HM goal was sub 2 hrs.  When I ran the 10K leg of an oly tri in 54 minutes it made me quite confident I'd hit my goal.  Same concept with the open 10K, you are just looking to make sure you can hold your race pace (or slightly faster) at a particular point.  Also, there is no reason that if you want to get an LSD in, you cannot suffle around your program a bit.  
2010-08-03 8:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan

Great stuff, guys.  I'll look around for a 10K or two.

Just to be clear.....I don't really change anything else in my week, when I do these.....right?  I'm just substituting a "race' for a long run.  The rest of my weekly running stays the same?

2010-08-04 6:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan
nc452010 - 2010-08-03 9:30 PM

Great stuff, guys.  I'll look around for a 10K or two.

Just to be clear.....I don't really change anything else in my week, when I do these.....right?  I'm just substituting a "race' for a long run.  The rest of my weekly running stays the same?



What does the plan say to do? Are you following one, or just getting general guidance and making up your own?

If you are already running a maximal effort every week (which is not something I would personally agree with, but I understand what you are trying to do), then make that day a regular easier run, and make the long run the race, just like the plan says.

Like newbz said, it's more than just mileage, it's also intensity.
2010-08-06 11:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Higdon's Intermediate HM training plan
I had a PR when following this plan.  for the first time though, i stuck to the plan 100% (minus an injury).  I never ran in an actual race, but I would run the distance at race pace.
It was easy, basic, easy to follow i thought.  Left me thrilled with my time


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