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20 mph
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 2010-08-18 1:49 PM |
Champion  10154    Alabama |  Subject: 20 mphI recently had an offer to bike with someone in a group ride but they were only looking for people who could ride 20 mph for about an hour. I had to decline. Not only am I no longer in my peak biking shape, I don't think I have ever biked that fast for an hour. I got curious about my riding during my “peak” IM training and found this lunchtime ride from 2008.
This was a solo ride on my lunch break. So obviously I could not hang with the 20 mph crowd....but then I got to thinking, if I were riding in a pack and drafting and had the peer pressure to help motivate me....could hang with a 20 mph pack or would they drop me like a hot potato? Frankly I have virtually no experience riding with a pack as all of my riding is solo or riding with one other rider side-by-side. So how much do you think my solo speed could be increased riding in a pack? This number above is from 2 years ago so this question is just theoretical. ~Mike |
| 2010-08-18 1:52 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Champion 7595  Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: 20 mph I would say yes, if you can ride 18.6 solo for an hour, you can ride 20 in a group for an hour. That's assuming they are just cruising along at 20. In many group rides, there are huge surges every so often, and that's when folks get dropped. |
| 2010-08-18 1:53 PM in reply to: #3050732 |
Champion 6503 NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete | Subject: RE: 20 mph 18.6 solo > 20.0 peleton |
| 2010-08-18 1:55 PM in reply to: #3050738 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: 20 mph depends on the route... |
| 2010-08-18 1:55 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Pro 5361 | Subject: RE: 20 mph All depends on the hills. If it's a fairly flat ride, if you can average 18.6 solo, you can hang with a 20mph average group ride. But one long climb and that group will be gone. based on personal experience, being a mid 18er solo and getting dropped many many times by the group. |
| 2010-08-18 1:56 PM in reply to: #3050732 |
Elite 3371 | Subject: RE: 20 mph Experior - 2010-08-18 2:52 PM I would say yes, if you can ride 18.6 solo for an hour, you can ride 20 in a group for an hour. That's assuming they are just cruising along at 20. In many group rides, there are huge surges every so often, and that's when folks get dropped. Yep, if you can do 18.6 solo the group ride won't be hard unless they go above 20. In comparison, for an hour I average somewhere around 22 solo. In a group, I'm typically over 25mph. |
| 2010-08-18 1:57 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Elite 3515 Romeoville, Il | Subject: RE: 20 mph possibly you could hang. It would depend on how well you drafted. I find you can get 1-2 mph with good drafting. However, if you just a little too far off in a crosswind or get behind on an uphill you would probably be dropped. It's only an hour though. I'd suspect you'd have more problem hanging if you were 2 hours into the ride. Usually, in the first hour most people are fresh enough to cover any mistakes and catch back up to the group. |
| 2010-08-18 1:57 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: 20 mph So long as the group was steady you'd be fine. If the group gets an "overzealous" guy or two at the front, you'd need to "hang on" for a bit... but you would be more than capable of riding in most of the groups around here at those speeds solo. |
| 2010-08-18 2:00 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
| Subject: RE: 20 mph From my experience, drafting reduces your effort level by 10-25%. More so if you are going into a stiff head wind, and not so much if you are going with a tailwind. This is assuming we are comparing apples to apples. A solo ride on a road bike on the hoods vs a group ride with a road bike on the hoods in the draft. |
| 2010-08-18 2:06 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Master 1736 Midcoast Maine | Subject: RE: 20 mph Rogillio - 2010-08-18 2:49 AM
~Mike All things aside - I'd give the group ride a shot...worst case scenario, you get dropped and you don't come back again. Best case scenario, you improve your biking skills! Edited by itsallrelative_Maine 2010-08-18 2:07 PM |
| 2010-08-18 2:09 PM in reply to: #3050766 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: 20 mph tri808 - 2010-08-18 2:00 PM From my experience, drafting reduces your effort level by 10-25%. More so if you are going into a stiff head wind, and not so much if you are going with a tailwind. This is assuming we are comparing apples to apples. A solo ride on a road bike on the hoods vs a group ride with a road bike on the hoods in the draft. Not that I'm going but what do I need to know about drafting properly? Only thing I've ever heard is to stay off the aerobars. How close would I ride? Would I keep my wheel directly behind or to the side of the rider immediatly in front of me? ~Mike |
| 2010-08-18 2:18 PM in reply to: #3050802 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: 20 mph Rogillio - 2010-08-18 3:09 PM tri808 - 2010-08-18 2:00 PM From my experience, drafting reduces your effort level by 10-25%. More so if you are going into a stiff head wind, and not so much if you are going with a tailwind. This is assuming we are comparing apples to apples. A solo ride on a road bike on the hoods vs a group ride with a road bike on the hoods in the draft. Not that I'm going but what do I need to know about drafting properly? Only thing I've ever heard is to stay off the aerobars. How close would I ride? Would I keep my wheel directly behind or to the side of the rider immediatly in front of me? ~Mike It depends on the wind, but yeah, generally you ride as close as you comfortably can to the wheel in front. If there is a cross wind, then you use the rider in front to 'shield' you a bit from that, so you'd be a little to the side as well. Edited by Experior 2010-08-18 2:18 PM |
| 2010-08-18 2:23 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Master 1610 Kirkland, WA | Subject: RE: 20 mph remember too that riding 20 mph and averaging 20 mph are too different things. i find with stops, hills etc, i have to cruise around 22-23 mph on the flats to get even close to 20 mph average. |
| 2010-08-18 2:29 PM in reply to: #3050802 |
| Subject: RE: 20 mph Yeah. The sweet spot is generally .5 a wheel distance from the rear wheel in front of you. But you really don't want to ride "directly" behind it. Maybe 2 inches to the left or right. That way if the rider in front of you brakes, you have an extra split second to react as you won't hit their rear wheel if the are not perfectly alligned. |
| 2010-08-18 2:32 PM in reply to: #3050845 |
| Subject: RE: 20 mph ultrahip_00 - 2010-08-18 10:23 AM remember too that riding 20 mph and averaging 20 mph are too different things. i find with stops, hills etc, i have to cruise around 22-23 mph on the flats to get even close to 20 mph average. From my experience...most people who say they average 20 mph, are talking about how fast they ride...not taking their actual distance and divinding by time to find their actual average. |
| 2010-08-18 3:00 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Pro 5892 , New Hampshire | Subject: RE: 20 mph Group rides averaging 20MPH is definitely within your capabilities if you can do well over 18 by yourself. Just be prepared to suffer a bit when they push and hang on. And no matter how fresh you feel, don't stay too long at the front (remember, 15-20sec. pulls that's it!). If the ride is hilly, then this is out the window... unless you are a naturally strong climber. |
| 2010-08-18 3:20 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Expert 792 Leicester | Subject: RE: 20 mph If the guy who posted the ride up is thinking about hitting 20 on the flats in between climbs and stops, you'll smoke him!  averaging 18.7 for 56miles in a group a couple of weeks ago was a very hard ride (for me at least) even with a good chain going. Didn't get weather it was a big group or just a couple of guys? There's a difference there too, and if they are regularly riding together they could be taking turns for a few mins at the front then breaking off to let the next guy take the wind, organised well and regular 'chain gang' riders can conserve a lot doing this in preperation for your few mins on the front |
| 2010-08-18 3:36 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Veteran 503 Bedford, NH | Subject: RE: 20 mph Riding with a group that is faster than you is a great way to improve your cycling a great way to learn from others. Plus they are a lot of fun. Like others said, its the bursts, terrain and wind that make them difficult. But the more you do, the better you will get. You most likely will get dropped. some groups will wait at the top of hill, next turn, etc. for you to catch up. Find out their policy beforehand so you can prepare in case they dont. Even if you get dropped and they dont wait it can be a great learning experience. Ex. Figure out why you got dropped and what you can do to improve. Did you pull to long, did you miss the burst, did you get beat up on the hills, etc.. A few tips:
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| 2010-08-18 3:40 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: 20 mph Are they asking that you average 20mph on an hour ride, or that you ride at a typical moving speed of 20 mph? In my experience, many times they mean the latter. I would assume that with stops, turns, etc. you had go have a typical speed around 20mph to average 18.6 on your HIM.Either way I think you will be OK. |
| 2010-08-18 3:54 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: 20 mph to give you some idea....my morning ride today:
Edited by trix 2010-08-18 3:56 PM |
| 2010-08-18 3:59 PM in reply to: #3051110 |
Master 1929 Midlothian, VA | Subject: RE: 20 mph Are you easily embarrassed? No? Go for it. I attend 3 group rides some weeks. A fast group Weds. and Sats. and the other group on Mondays. On the fast rides, I get completely dropped at least a third of the time. I still show up. Nobody gives me a hard time, and they make positive comments when they notice me making gains. It's all about the hills. I can hold my own on flats for the most part. You won't get tougher or faster leading slower riders around. Get out there and chase somebody! (Just make sure you know where they are going, and how to get home.) -eric |
| 2010-08-18 4:16 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Champion 7547 Albuquerque, New Mexico Bronze member | Subject: RE: 20 mph It really depends on whether the group wants to drop you or not. They might keep a steady pace the whole time and even slow a tick or two to keep you with them if they're so inclined. They might vary the pace a lot to see how long you hang on before you drop off for good. My experience riding in a group (and I did so yesterday) is that keeping 0.5--1 wheel separation and several inches left or right is comfortable and efficient. Since I don't ride in a group regularly, I get nervous getting much closer than a wheel radius gap and I start losing the draft benefit at 4-5'. I'm not so good picking up on the surges. I'll be hanging just fine and all of a sudden I'll be 10' back and now working like a dog to catch up. In yesterday's ride, I dropped off within the last 2 miles and rolled into the parking lot about 300' behind them. We were riding 23-25 mph at the time. We averaged 19.2 even though we were 20+ almost every time I looked at my computer. Edited by McFuzz 2010-08-18 4:16 PM |
| 2010-08-18 4:22 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Master 2356 Westlake Village , Ca. | Subject: RE: 20 mph Also, just make sure you are familiar with the route as someone mentioned earlier. 20mph on a flat road is no biggie and I'm sure you'll be fine, but if they go 20 miles in an hour with 2000' of climbing, that's gonna be a tough ride. |
| 2010-08-18 4:33 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Expert 898 Plano, National Capital Region | Subject: RE: 20 mph average speed of a ride is a very loose gauge of difficulty. For example, this weekend, I rode on Saturday with group and my average was right around 18mph for 60 miles. On Sunday, I rode with another group (more advanced riders) and we did 50 miles at an average of 20mph. My avg hr data was very similar for both. However, the Sunday ride was much smoother (and even though it included a fairly big hill at the end), wasn't too hard and my RPE for both would be about equal. There is more to the advanced group rides than just your ability to keep up. Bike handling skills are important (how well do you hold your line going into a turn when you have a person on either side of you about a foot away), as well as ability to 'read' the group. In addition, you will need to get used to looking further up (which is hard to do when you are new and worried about how close you are to the wheel in front of you) - to avoid hazards, see the surge building (you can tell from the cadence of the riders ahead...not the one in front of you but the one about 3-4 people in front of you), and anticipate turns, slowdowns, etc. 20mph sustained in the draft is not difficult if you can do almost 19mph solo. However, you will need to know how to deal with the surging and how hard to push and still recover. Group rides tend to dramatically increase effort going uphill (hence the reason why people get dropped on hills) that is the opposite of how solo time trials are run (constant effort/power). You'll need to figure out your strategy for dealing with them (do you keep a decent tempo that will allow you to accelerate at the top even though you may have a gap develop or do you go with everyone's speed even if you get close to blowing up - anticipating a recovery opportunity after the hill?). As long as you have a plan if you get dropped (have a map, cell phone handy, etc) then there shouldn't be any negatives from joining the group. Also, when you are new, you'll tend to hang off near the back - and that makes the ride even more difficult with the yo-yo effect that is felt the most over there. Finally, if it's your first group ride - don't bother pulling. Let the experienced people do that and just observe. |
| 2010-08-18 4:43 PM in reply to: #3050720 |
Champion 10668 Tacoma, Washington | Subject: RE: 20 mph The biggest issue with triathletes jumping into roadie group rides ISN'T the pace. Usually it's the changes in speed. Triathletes are all about average speed, and not drafting, stedy effort. In a group, usually the triathlete is nervous, making drafting well difficult. Then, when the hammer drops, they lack the snap to stay in what little draft they were able to maintain, and get into the mindset of "I'll just TT back on when they slow down again." Doesn't work. Once that gap forms, it's almost never going to close again. Not saying that's you. Mostly saying it as a warning to leave that whole thought process in the car. |
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