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2010-08-27 11:39 AM

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Subject: A question about marathon training
Hope this is ok to post here.  I'm training for my first marathon that is in November.  My marathon training plan has my long run in between rest days.  So my long run is on a Wednesday, I rest on Thursday, and I have a short run on Friday.  Since Friday is a short run, I tend to run pretty hard. 

My question is, is this short run intended as a recovery run or a run that I can do whatever I want?  I mean I don't want to injure myself.  Seems weird though to have a recovery run two days later...but maybe not?  I run a tempo run once a week.  However those runs are increasing in distance as my marathon training increases, so a tempo run could be difficult.

Hope this makes sense.  I'm just a little confused as my training plan doesn't specifically say run hard, run slow, ect.  It just gives the miles to run.  I'm not new to running, but I am new to marathon training.  I'm used to 5k, 10k, and have done 2 half marys.  A marathon is whole different area. 

Thanks for any words of wisdom.  I want to train smart and not injure myself.  But I have competitve streak in me and want to do well too. 


2010-08-27 11:51 AM
in reply to: #3067516

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Subject: RE: A question about marathon training
The plan should really dictate what type of run you should do. Where did you get this plan? Hal Higdon has some great free plans.
2010-08-27 11:56 AM
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Subject: RE: A question about marathon training
I would rally question a plan that didn't tell you what kind of run. Do you have any easy days?

Long => hard
Tempo => hard
The way you describe your short run it is hard as well. You need some easy maintenance, recovery days in your plan. The number of intense days depend on your ability and experience but if training for your first mary, I would recommend one long run and at most one speed day per week with the rest being easy runs. The 'speed day' would be intervals, hills, tempo or a weekend race. That is just me though. I am not a coach.
2010-08-27 12:02 PM
in reply to: #3067581

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Subject: RE: A question about marathon training
notquitethere - 2010-08-27 11:56 AM I would rally question a plan that didn't tell you what kind of run. Do you have any easy days? Long => hard Tempo => hard The way you describe your short run it is hard as well. You need some easy maintenance, recovery days in your plan. The number of intense days depend on your ability and experience but if training for your first mary, I would recommend one long run and at most one speed day per week with the rest being easy runs. The 'speed day' would be intervals, hills, tempo or a weekend race. That is just me though. I am not a coach.

X2. I do my long runs on Sunday and always take Mondays as a rest day. My shorter (3-5 mile) Tues runs are at recovery pace, then I'll do speedwork either Wed or Thurs, with maybe another recovery run the day after. This works for ME, but might be too light or too heavy for others.
2010-08-27 12:09 PM
in reply to: #3067516

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Subject: RE: A question about marathon training
cggale - 2010-08-27 12:39 PM

Hope this is ok to post here.  I'm training for my first marathon that is in November.  My marathon training plan has my long run in between rest days.  So my long run is on a Wednesday, I rest on Thursday, and I have a short run on Friday.  Since Friday is a short run, I tend to run pretty hard. 

My question is, is this short run intended as a recovery run or a run that I can do whatever I want?  I mean I don't want to injure myself.  Seems weird though to have a recovery run two days later...but maybe not?  I run a tempo run once a week.  However those runs are increasing in distance as my marathon training increases, so a tempo run could be difficult.

Hope this makes sense.  I'm just a little confused as my training plan doesn't specifically say run hard, run slow, ect.  It just gives the miles to run.  I'm not new to running, but I am new to marathon training.  I'm used to 5k, 10k, and have done 2 half marys.  A marathon is whole different area. 

Thanks for any words of wisdom.  I want to train smart and not injure myself.  But I have competitve streak in me and want to do well too. 


No, marathon training is not much different than any other race. The only real difference is the number of miles you run in any one given workout.

Since I have no idea how the plan is structured, I'm going to be shooting in the dark here, but I would say that shorter runs are almost always easy runs. HOWEVER, the fact that you have rest days before and after the long run means you probably don't need much in the way of recovery runs, so I would just do whatever you feel like that day. If you feel good, run harder; if you feel sluggish, run easy.
2010-08-27 1:07 PM
in reply to: #3067516

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Subject: RE: A question about marathon training
Thanks for the quick reply guys.  My training plan came from rungearrun.com.   It does have a pacing guideline at the bottom of the plan.  Based on a 5k race pace it magically calculates pacing guidelines to reach a goal marathon time.   For example, I stated my 5k race pace as 7:40min/mile and it has my goal marathon time as being 8:53 min/mile.  That seems a little fast for my first marathon...gulp.   I should also add, that it does have training pace times but it seems slow.  For example, it states:  1-4 mi run training pace at 9:53, 5-9 mi training pace at 10:23, 10-14 mi training pace at 10:42 ect...   I thought it was meant for the long runs.  Perhaps it's meant for all my training runs.  Hmmmm.

I don't run hard on every run.  On Saturdays and Sundays, I take the runs kind of easy as I'm usually working out on the bike.

FWIW, I don't have a garmin and I really just run on how I feel.  So some runs are faster than others.  I really just want to do this right without injury.   


2010-08-27 1:12 PM
in reply to: #3067832

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Subject: RE: A question about marathon training
cggale - 2010-08-27 2:07 PM

Thanks for the quick reply guys.  My training plan came from rungearrun.com.   It does have a pacing guideline at the bottom of the plan.  Based on a 5k race pace it magically calculates pacing guidelines to reach a goal marathon time.   For example, I stated my 5k race pace as 7:40min/mile and it has my goal marathon time as being 8:53 min/mile.  That seems a little fast for my first marathon...gulp.   I should also add, that it does have training pace times but it seems slow.  For example, it states:  1-4 mi run training pace at 9:53, 5-9 mi training pace at 10:23, 10-14 mi training pace at 10:42 ect...   I thought it was meant for the long runs.  Perhaps it's meant for all my training runs.  Hmmmm.

I don't run hard on every run.  On Saturdays and Sundays, I take the runs kind of easy as I'm usually working out on the bike.

FWIW, I don't have a garmin and I really just run on how I feel.  So some runs are faster than others.  I really just want to do this right without injury.   


Here's the key to avoiding injury:

Listen to your body.

The majority of injuries are brought on by adding taking on too much, too soon, and running it too hard. It ain't the mileage that breaks you, it's how hard you run that mileage. Sounds like you're doing alright.

Oh, and there is no "right" way to do it. The "right" way is the one that you're currently using, until experimentation proves it to be otherwise.
2010-08-28 11:17 AM
in reply to: #3067516

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Subject: RE: A question about marathon training
Here is what I did this week training for a 1/2 marathon ( I have trained & done the full using Hal's plan too):  Speed work Monday/ cross train Tue/ Tempo Run Wed/ cross train Thur/ Long run Friday/ today..rest day!! & then to end the week.. 5miler/tomorrow..I think I will run the 5miler without my garmin & just do what feels good..hopefully my race pace.  
Like the others have said, do what feels good on that running day & listen to your body.  My hamstrings are tight today & I am tired so I think my 5miler tomorrow will be on the easy side.

Good Luck in the Marathon!

Patti  
2010-08-28 4:29 PM
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Subject: RE: A question about marathon training
Since it's a short run and you feel good, there isn't any harm in running hard - unless it impacts the run the following day. As your plans progresses, the lengths of all your runs should graduually increase. With that in mind, pay attention to how you feel the day after the hard run. If your legs are tired and you feel sluggish, then don't run so hard the previous day.
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