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2010-09-01 6:03 PM

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Subject: SRAM apex = ? shimano
Does anyone know how Apex stacks up against shimano components?  I'm looking at the SC 7 and it comes with apex and a 2.5K price tag vs the Felt B16 which has full ultegra for under 2k or the B14 with Dura-ace and vision components?  How much of a difference is that?  Should I buy the best frame I can fit on, or should I be more concerned with the components?


2010-09-02 7:52 AM
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Subject: RE: SRAM apex = ? shimano
Apex group is kind of interesting, seems to provide almost all the gearing of a triple without 3 chainrings up front.  It uses a long cage rear derailleur like a triple.

So I would guess that it will be slightly heavier than the other double setups. 

There isn't really anything Shimano wise to compare it to that I know of, I suppose performance wise somewhere between 105 and Ultegra (just guessing)

I don't even know anyone with it yet so everything I know is what I have read on SRAM and forums so YMMV.

Oh and after re-reading your post buy the frame that fits then build components around it, to be honest you won't notice much difference between 105 - Ulterga - Dura Ace and the SRAM components, each have their small differences in function and weight but all will perform well in a race.

Edited by dalessit 2010-09-02 7:55 AM
2010-09-02 8:04 AM
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Subject: RE: SRAM apex = ? shimano
I spoke to a bike shop guy and he said Apex is to below 105 more like Tiagra or Sora from Shimano.

Concept is very interesting and have done something similar. I have long cage mountain bike derailuer and 11-34 cassette I use on my ultegra 10 speed tri bike when doing races or training on very hilly terrain.



Edited by KathyG 2010-09-02 8:20 AM
2010-09-02 8:07 AM
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Subject: RE: SRAM apex = ? shimano

Parts of APEX are the old version of SRAM Rival. Rival now has carbon shifters that trickled down from Force. The shifters on APEX are now the aluminum ones. As Dale said, it is can be set up a few different ways, one being that with a long throw rear derailleur. This enables a huge gearing choice that would be considered a cross between mountain bike gearing and that of a triple. It is also a quater of a pound lighter than a 105 groupset.

But to answer your question… APEX would be smack dab in the middle between 105 and Ultegra

Component wise; I am a huge fan of SRAM. In my opinion I think it is light years ahead of Shimano’s analog components. This is really a personal preference and everyone’s opinion will differ on this. There is however an interesting read out there where cycling news compared all three component manufactures and published it. I agree with it, just know that if you do find it, they tested each manufacturers road set up not a TT set up.



Edited by tnc615 2010-09-02 8:15 AM
2010-09-02 8:15 AM
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Subject: RE: SRAM apex = ? shimano
tnc615 - 2010-09-02 9:07 AM

Parts of APEX are the old version of SRAM Rival. Rival now has carbon shifters that trickled down from Force. The shifters on APEX are now the aluminum ones. As Dale said, it is can be set up a few different ways, one being that with a long throw rear derailleur. This enables a huge gearing choice that would be considered a cross between mountain bike gearing and that of a triple. It is also a quater of a pound lighter than a 105 groupset.

Component wise; I am a huge fan of SRAM. In my opinion I think it is light years ahead of Shimano’s analog components. This is really a personal preference and everyone’s opinion will differ on this. There is however an interesting read out there where cycling news compared all three component manufactures and published it. I agree with it, just know that if you do find it, they tested each manufacturers road set up not a TT set up.



Interesting, wonder how interchangeable it is with other SRAM, why not get the rival brifters and the rest apex, if it's that much lighter than 105 that's a plus. 

Guess I need to read up more on it.  I'm all for having plenty of gears to get up a hill without blowing out the watts and still having enough gears to roll down the hill at a nice clip, all without the hassle of having a triple which I find to be a major PITA to have to work on.
2010-09-02 8:16 AM
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Subject: RE: SRAM apex = ? shimano
KathyG - 2010-09-02 9:04 AM I spoke to a bike shop guy and he said Apex is equal to below 105 more like Tiagra or Sora from Shimano.

Concept is very interesting and have done something similar. I have long cage mountain bike derailuer and 11-34 cassette I use on my ultegra 10 speed tri bike when doing races or training on very hilly terrain.



Did he say why?  I tend to think of Tiagra and Sora has having more plastic parts thus, shorter life span and more likely to break than the 105 and up components.


2010-09-02 8:23 AM
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Subject: RE: SRAM apex = ? shimano
dalessit - 2010-09-02 9:16 AM
KathyG - 2010-09-02 9:04 AM I spoke to a bike shop guy and he said Apex is equal to below 105 more like Tiagra or Sora from Shimano.

Concept is very interesting and have done something similar. I have long cage mountain bike derailuer and 11-34 cassette I use on my ultegra 10 speed tri bike when doing races or training on very hilly terrain.



Did he say why?  I tend to think of Tiagra and Sora has having more plastic parts thus, shorter life span and more likely to break than the 105 and up components.


He didn't say...but I'll look at getting Apex 10 speed cassette to use with my derailuer.  What I have used was 9 sp mtb derailuer and an off brand IRC 10 speed cassette.

From what I heard the Sram derailuer will not work on my Shimano bike so I'll have to stick with long cage derailuer I have. I wonder if Shimano will come out with something similar in future.

The key to keeping watts more steady on hilly course is right gearing. Lower FTP or power/weight ratio more appealing an options like Apex is and keeps vi lower.
2010-09-02 8:24 AM
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Subject: RE: SRAM apex = ? shimano
dalessit - 2010-09-02 8:15 AM
tnc615 - 2010-09-02 9:07 AM

Parts of APEX are the old version of SRAM Rival. Rival now has carbon shifters that trickled down from Force. The shifters on APEX are now the aluminum ones. As Dale said, it is can be set up a few different ways, one being that with a long throw rear derailleur. This enables a huge gearing choice that would be considered a cross between mountain bike gearing and that of a triple. It is also a quater of a pound lighter than a 105 groupset.

Component wise; I am a huge fan of SRAM. In my opinion I think it is light years ahead of Shimano’s analog components. This is really a personal preference and everyone’s opinion will differ on this. There is however an interesting read out there where cycling news compared all three component manufactures and published it. I agree with it, just know that if you do find it, they tested each manufacturers road set up not a TT set up.



Interesting, wonder how interchangeable it is with other SRAM, why not get the rival brifters and the rest apex, if it's that much lighter than 105 that's a plus. 

Guess I need to read up more on it.  I'm all for having plenty of gears to get up a hill without blowing out the watts and still having enough gears to roll down the hill at a nice clip, all without the hassle of having a triple which I find to be a major PITA to have to work on.


You can interchange all parts with all the grouppo's... The 2010 & 2011 Specialized Tarmac Comp Actually had a fusion of APEX parts on it.  You can not get away with what they consider the pie pan cassette (12-32) without that long throw derailleur but everything else is completely interchangeable. 

Another benefit of SRAM is that some of the parts can be rebuilt if needed. Shimano parts can not be.

2010-09-02 8:28 AM
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Subject: RE: SRAM apex = ? shimano
KathyG - 2010-09-02 8:23 AM
dalessit - 2010-09-02 9:16 AM
KathyG - 2010-09-02 9:04 AM I spoke to a bike shop guy and he said Apex is equal to below 105 more like Tiagra or Sora from Shimano.

Concept is very interesting and have done something similar. I have long cage mountain bike derailuer and 11-34 cassette I use on my ultegra 10 speed tri bike when doing races or training on very hilly terrain.



Did he say why?  I tend to think of Tiagra and Sora has having more plastic parts thus, shorter life span and more likely to break than the 105 and up components.


He didn't say...but I'll look at getting Apex 10 speed cassette to use with my derailuer.  What I have used was 9 sp mtb derailuer and an off brand IRC 10 speed cassette.

From what I heard the Sram derailuer will not work on my Shimano bike so I'll have to stick with long cage derailuer I have. I wonder if Shimano will come out with something similar in future.

The key to keeping watts more steady on hilly course is right gearing. Lower FTP or power/weight ratio more appealing an options like Apex is and keeps vi lower.


Shimano and SRAM parts are interchangeable... I run a Dura Ace Cassette on a full SRAM red TT bike. What you probably heard is that there is a difference in the pull ratio if you were to have Shimano shifters on a SRAM Rear D or the other way around as well. While it will work... it requires a ton a tweaking and most bike shops just say that it doesnt because they dont want to deal with it.

Edited by tnc615 2010-09-02 8:35 AM
2010-09-02 9:06 AM
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Subject: RE: SRAM apex = ? shimano
I was told you can not mix brands of shifters and derailuers..you need to have both either Shimano or Sram but you can't have say sram shifter and shimano derailuer.

Yes all other parts are interchangeable.
2010-09-02 9:35 AM
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Subject: RE: SRAM apex = ? shimano
You can... Its a pain but can be done. I was just playing around with a Campy 10 speed drive train using SRAM R2C shifters got it to work but was not sure I wanted my race bike built up around a tweak.


2010-09-02 1:44 PM
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Subject: RE: SRAM apex = ? shimano
SRAM and Shimano components ARE (mostly) interchangeable. 
Campy stuff is not.
2010-09-04 3:56 PM
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Subject: RE: SRAM apex = ? shimano
jeffnboise - 2010-09-02 11:44 AM

SRAM and Shimano components ARE (mostly) interchangeable. 
Campy stuff is not.


Sorta, you'll find that SRAM shifters and RDs work best together. The rest you mix and match, but tweaking Shimano/SRAM RDs and shifters to work is finicky to the point of not a good thing on race day.
2010-09-05 5:32 PM
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Subject: RE: SRAM apex = ? shimano
Kathy I find it funny that your guy said Apex is lower then 105----everything I've read/seen puts it as equal to 105 "at worst" and more step up from 105 but not Ultegra...wonder his reasoning/thought.
2010-09-06 12:01 PM
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Subject: RE: SRAM apex = ? shimano
I may be wrong but mostly I rank the sets as follows:

1) Dura Ace / Red
2) Force
3) Ultegra / Rival
4) Apex / 105

Cheers,
-jason
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