I'm curious about "hiking in Iran" (Page 4)

I feel compelled to establish that I have never read a Tom Clancy novel! I don't read spy novels of any kind.  I prefer history, non-fiction.

And jdwright - "he" - I know of his background due to comments made in the past that have nothing to do with this topic. It seemed like you were referring to him, since you quoted a partial statement that he had made.

Since he and I are the only ones being overt about our opinion that they are Operators (NOT spies), I assume your comments could only be referring to us. As I said, I don't read spy novels (Clancy or otherwise) and the other person actually has a background that would be relevant. Sorry to be vague; it's not my place to be more specific. However, he might be guilty of reading Clancy. I have no inside information on this.

For the record, I was not accusing you of implying that BT is absent of people with relevant backgrounds. Instead, I made the point to illustrate that it is not unlikely that someone with knowledge or background can be found on BT. I can think of 7 8 BTers who would fall into this category. Again, I agree that someone who has the current and relevant type of background would not be chiming in with specifics. I don't see that happening, though.

For the record, I'm just a girl with an unusual background and exposure to all types of interesting people. Who doesn't read spy novels.


Edited by Renee 2010-09-16 12:56 PM

And who isn’t so good at sharing the black jujubes.

But who will give you more than a fair proportion in exchange for hogging the black ones! 3 regular Jujubes for every 1 black one.

this thread is actually very entertaining.  and to think I originally felt it would get past 2 pages.

Is there a way to merge this thread with the

Questions for the backpackers.... thread?

Advice #1 for new backpackers: don't backpack in a war zone

Advice #2 for new backpackers: if you do, carry bear protection like trinnas

Edited by dontracy 2010-09-16 2:48 PM

Oh, I think I have the answer for this:

"Being stupid."

And the wheel goes round and round.

It's come down to "stupid" vs. "operator" with a number of people claiming "stupid" because it has fewer letters.

This user's post has been ignored.

Edited by PennState 2010-09-16 3:08 PM

1. They got captured.  Not very operatorish.  Maybe they were interns.

b. If they were operators, I'm sure all they were doing was lacing Iran's water supply with flouride so we could mind control the populace.

Thirdly, there are no phones in the desert.

My friend, the Army Intel colonel, was shot twice in the shoulder during a mission. Not in a war zone or even in a country where we have military.  Not very Army Intel-ish. His buddy was shot, too. What did you do? I asked. We bled, he replied. I'll ask him if he was interning at the time.

He wasn't carrying a weapon because wasn't supposed to be carrying a weapon. As someone mentioned, this isn't Jason Bourne territory.

Stuff happens. I'm not going to be derisive about their abilities when it happens.

It's funny. People can't believe we have Operators in this area. But they also can't believe our Operators - who aren't there! - are capable of being captured.


Edited by Renee 2010-09-16 3:22 PM

May be I'm still a little influenced by the 60's but 3 kids from Berkley as spies or operators not nearly as likely as hikers out to see an exotic location.

I'm still perplexed about the journalists that went to N korea thinking somehow it was ok and they were assured they would be allowed to leave.

Frankly we bail out every idiot that does something stupid, or shall I say stupid operators.

Moving on....

sheesh, no wonder they screwed up.  Being an operator sounds hard.  from wiki (the source of all knowledge)

An operator (not to be confused with operation) is a mapping from one vector space or module to another. Operators are of critical importance to both linear algebra and functional analysis. Important properties that various operators may exhibit include linearity, continuity, and boundedness.

Important special cases of an operator include:

• Functional, which maps a vector space to its underlying field. The space of functionals over a vector space exhibits duality to it, which has numerous applications. Important applications of functionals are the theories of generalized functions, which extends the classical notion of a function and derivative, and calculus of variations, which generalizes the notion of differential to functionals as they are. Both are of great importance to theoretical physics.
• Linear operator, which has a number of characteristics that ease its study. Important examples of linear operators are integral and derivative. In finite-dimensional spaces linear operators are often represented by matrices.

Trivia time!!  What is the relationship between BT and these two fine young ladies?????

Attachments
----------------
OPERATOR2.jpg (44KB - 3 downloads)
OPERATOR.jpg (53KB - 5 downloads)

^^^^^

Is this the party to whom I am speaking?



Lily rocks!

Speaking of college mathy stuffy ...

Differential Equations = Diffy Q

Functional Analysis = Funky Anal


Man, Diffy Q is hard.
No kidding. Hey, have you done your Funky Anal yet?

Diffy Q's not hard PDE's were hard I don't think I could do a fourier transform to save my soul any more.
Systems of Diffy Q's  =  Fun


Edited by trinnas 2010-09-16 3:48 PM

Well, since we're taking this so very seriously.  Sure, there may be operators and they might even get caught every now and again!  I just don't think they're going to be a photo journalist, an English teacher, and an environmentalist.  Maybe that's just the perfect cover... You'd never peg a trio of hippies as hardcore government agents, right?

I'd also wonder what they were doing.  Mapping?  We have satellites that do that, so probably not.  Stashing "stuff"?  Maybe, but you'd think that the Iranian would have found some kind of evidence indicating that was the case.  Or maybe it was fluoride, and maybe they just used their mind control juju to get them to gloss over little incidental things like evidence.  Maybe they were sneaking in to commit an assassination, since they were doing such a phenomenal job of blending in that nearby villages referred to them as the "Americans."

OR MAYBE, they were being irresponsible on their vacation, strayed a itsy bit too close to the boarder of a very belligerent country and got caught.

Then again, Julia Child was a spy.  Of course, she didn't get caught.  Or at least she allayed suspicion with her cooking.  She did like to use a lot of alcohol, after all.


Edited by Johners 2010-09-16 4:01 PM

I see how being fantastical in your "maybes" can lend itself towards making their presence seem absurd to the point of being completely unrealistic. Maybe they were hunting for the Ark of the Covenant! But it also suggests that you lack basic knowledge of what kinds of missions an Operator might perform. They can't all be Austin Powers and save the world from Doctor Evil.

But I'm curious. If it strains your credulity that a Special Forces operator would use an environmentalist, teacher or photo journalist as cover occupations, what kinds of cover occupations would you be prepared to accept?


My friend who was shot wasn't carrying a gun because, at the time, he was a Canadian tourist.  Canadian tourists don't typically carry weapons in their luggage when they enter a foreign country (No, they didn't air drop him into the country. Crazy, huh?) Except my friend isn't Canadian and wasn't a tourist. I know, hard to believe that our government constructs alternate identities for our intelligence assets!

Nope, you'd never peg "hippies" for SFs. You'd also never peg WaPo journalists for CIA operatives. But it happens. They don't all have to dress shagadelic, nor dress in tuxedos, to do important work.

never graduated to that "Funky Anal".  But that Diffy Q...that's some fun stuff!

Does it really strain your credulity that it is possible that these three people, who by all appearances are your everyday nature-loving, travel-happy, adventure-seeking young adults, might actually have been hiking in the mountains and gotten off their intended course?  Is that really so hard to imagine?  It sure seems a lot more likely to me than your very complicated situation of Special Forces coverups and fabricated identities.  And nothing you say about your friends who have been in SF will make me change my mind.  (If their jobs [your friends] are so secretive and important, why do you know so much about what they did and what missions they were on and where they're being sent and what their coverup story would be?  That makes no sense.)

I submit that my maybes are much less fantastical than your maybes!  Except for the fluoride one. By the way, does your friend happen to be Archer, AKA Duchess?  Because he's, like, the only spy I know that walks around telling people he's a spy.


Edited by Johners 2010-09-16 4:42 PM

It's entirely possible that the story is legitimate. I just don't believe that it is legitimate. Not for a second.



I see it as just the opposite. If our military does not have SF in that area, I would be SHOCKED and disbelieving.

Fabricated identities are a given. Very basic. Nothing complicated about that idea at all. That you don't know just reflects your lack of appreciation for how things are done with SF.



I'm not trying to change your mind. I am expounding on what I know about how things are done, how our most elite soldiers are trained and used. Just because you do not have this knowledge in your brain does not make it a secret. Try reading Blackhawk Down to learn about the kind of training these guys receive.

1. What makes you think I know so much? I know about as much as I've told you.
2. What secrets have I told you? None. That some of this information isn't widely known doesn't make it a secret; just means it's not common knowledge in your world. Move to Southern Pines NC and that might quickly change. Or maintain a friendship with someone who has spent their entire adult life in the military and you might learn more about the dangers of their occupation and the sacrifices they make.
3. I don't ask for details - that would be rude and met with stony silence.
4. The story about the Army colonel occurred over 10 years ago. He didn't divulge any secrets to me, nor have I to the BT audience. I used it to illustrate the fact that a) it's plausible that someone on a mission would not carry a weapon, b) cover stories are a given and c) even our best find themselves in very bad places despite their excellent training, preparation and intelligence. In other words, their work is dangerous and things can get out of control quickly. Our Special Forces and Army Intel folks are not James Bond types who never so much as get a hair out of place. Stuff happens - like getting caught on the border with Iran.
5. The story about my Chinese speaking friend - that was a conversation I had 2 years ago. Nothing secret about it. I used this story to illustrate the fact that not all SF are "door kickers" who are used for strictly violent or evil purposes.

There was a SF soldier who was torn to pieces in Mogadishu (see Blackhawk Down). While I was in Southern Pines at a bar, I met his son. His SON. He was in uniform, had been in the Army for about a year and was visiting his mother. I was introduced to him by my friends who were long-time neighbors of the family. What are the chances I would meet the son of this man? I also very seriously dated one of the guys who are mentioned in that same book. I knew NOTHING of Delta Force until I met this guy, didn't watch the movie or read the book until after meeting him. You learn a lot by LISTENING to these people. You would NEVER call them stupid operators or be derisive about their work. I understand that you find this difficult to grasp; if you grew up in a completely civilian environment, absent military friends and family, I would understand doubly so. I have very different experiences than you do, and have met very different people than you have.

My oldest sister flew on General Omar Torrijos' (benevolent dictator of Panama) private jet to Cuba to participate in a Latin American swim competition when she was around 12.  My second cousin served as a legal translator for former dictator Manuel Noriega during his trial in France. How's that for straining your credulity?

I'm probably the most liberal person on this board, except for 2 or 3 outliers *coughAcescough*. But I have no problem comprehending and accepting that Special Forces are essential to our military operations and something other than "evil" people, whose missions might be something other than to assassinate people or poison their water supply. I also understand that they are some of the most violent people on the Earth, to quote my CIA friend. I've also broken bread and had beers with some of these people. Met their parents and their children, even.