And there we go...WTC breaks into the Olympic Distance scene (Page 6)

I think WTC is getting into Olympics cause they want the "Best of Both Worlds" ~snare drum~

I appreciated it!

"You Really Got Me" on that one.

Sorry let me quit laughing first... The city is going to do what is best for them financially.  If that means squashing the small up and coming races then they will do that.

People are not going to elect officials based on their "triathlon scheduling policies".  I just see it as a way for the big guys to muscle their way around.

I'm all for WTC doing events.  Make lots of money.  It's the American way. (I'm doing CdA next year)  However I see these blackout dates as an unfair advantage.  If a WTC event is so much better than everyone else then prove it by competing on a level playing field.

pretty sure that is the same price it has been for a couple of years already, i did not read all the posts so someone may have mentioned that already.

back to reading the rest of the thread, lol

I guess I will just have to get a second job as perhaps an "Ice Cream Man" to offset the cost.

I'm a little soured towards WTC. I did my first 70.3 in Augusta a couple weeks ago. I finished in 7 hours and despite paying my $250 back in February, they had no medal for me and about 250 other finishers when we crossed the finish line. That really aggravated me, but to top it off there were no race officals around to apologize or to tell us how or when we would get out medals. We were just left standing there with absolutely no answers. Quite frankly they acted as if they didn't care. They had my money and that's all they were after. That's -poor customer service and I can't stand that, especially for the price they charge for the event.

Fastyellow -

No, nothing's been cancelled yet, but it should never have even gotten as far as this. Small independent RDs do not need even an iota of this aggravation, especially if their track record is impeccable. With each passing day, I need more and more convincing that WTC operates with the best interests of triathlon in mind.

TriRSquared -

I'm quite certain that WTC events are not better than any other events. They have done a great job of "securing" wonderful venues, but once there --- then what? You get higher fees and larger crowds, the latter of which confers few or any benefits to the racers. Sure, there are a few more bells and whistles, but many of those go little further than the title -- "70.3!!!!" "5150!!!!" -- and thre opportunities to buy a few more pieces of race-branded clothing.

In the past two months I did three phenomenal olys -- Fronhofer Tool, Lake George, Make-A-Wish. The courses were not crowded, the costs were very reasonable (MAW a tad high, but more than worth it for a point-to-point ocean swim!), no supplies were exhausted, and the camaraderie was tight and joyful; finish line announcers were exuberant from start to finish. I cannot imagine any WTC race being run with the attention to detail and the loving commitment put forth by the RDs of those races.

I have done NYC twice ('05 and '08) -- and the only reason for ever doing it again is out of morbid curiosity --- just to see how over-the-edge WTC can make a race that is already borderline-chaotic. It is a hoot, to be sure, but mighty crowded.......and I'm sure WTC will try to squeeze a few hundred extra souls onto the course.

I was relieved (for now?) to see that my other favorite big-city race, Chicago, has not allowed itself to be engulfed and devoured by WTC. That may just be a matter of time, but I'm just hoping that the reamining events in that series band together and keep it strong and WTC-free.

That's arguable.  Go back and read almost every race report on this forum from a WTC event and in 99% of them you'll see a reference to how awesome the crowds were and what it did for peoples motivation.

I won't lie.. there are simply less races available as it just isn't as popular as road racing, but the smaller grassroots vibe you get there is what gets many people to keep coming back. 

Here is an example of an small beautiful community that put on a great Oly in the spring but can't sell out there HIM this month.  B2B is sold out and this location is just as good.  Support these races, not the Mdot races.  It's that simple.

http://fsseries.com/index.php?action=event&event_id=166

If you DON'T support these type of events and DO support Mdot, then stop all of your b#@*'n!

Edited by bighorsecreek 2010-10-07 12:59 PM

That was my point.  They are not intrinsically "better".  If they "think" they are they need to prove it on a level playing field.

IMO, St. Anthony's is a pretty well run race.  Has a good course, a good RD and pretty decent post-race food and activities.  What more could WTC bring to the table?  Nothing.  Well except for a higher entry fee likely.

undertheradar -

Are people grooving on the crowds of spectators, or the crowds on the course? I too like a little spectator support, but I have gotten virtually nothing out of being on a crowded course with too many other athletes. I suppose on a run course I can handle too many people, but on a bike course it is flat out dangerous at times, and of course whenever the crowds are large drafting (intentionally, or just as a by-product of not being able to get separated) is seemingly inevitable.

The consideration here wasn't what they brought to the table for athletes, but what they brought for St. Anthony's Hospital which is the beneficiary of the race.

My guess is that they approached the race committee with a deal that would increase the hospital's take from the race while making their lives simpler. "Hi, we're the most highly regarded triathlon production company and brand in the world. If you agree to brand your fundraiser race as part of our new series, we'll free you of management/administration of the race and guarantee you an increase in your fundraising take by n percent."

St. A's is the premier Oly distance race in the U.S. so it's a big win for WTC to brand it as a 5150 race. 

And given their proven business acumen, I very much doubt that they're doing it at a loss.

A little correction. It's not just a Duathlon series, Muncie MultiSport offers 5k/10k runs, plus Sprint and Olympic distance Triathlons too.  I also know that they are already planning on moving one of the races south of Muncie for next year because of the planned blackout.  For the blackout to be total the Muncie Parks Board has to OK the agreement through a board vote at the October meeting.  
I'm all for the big named races, but what's wrong with the small town race where you're not fighting for rack space.  There is something to be said for having your space.  



 

Sorry, this t?hread is TLDR, so maybe I missed it - do you say it 51-50 or 5-1-5-"zero" or 5-1-5-"oh"?  51-50 sounds better to me, but 5-1-5- oh is less syllables...

Let's figure out the important things first, before we get into side items, like what this race will do to local races/entry fees etc.

Edited by jsiegs 2010-10-08 8:05 AM

But you have to balance getting more $ for the hospital and loosing participation by having a lower # of entrants.  They have to please both masters. 

Two years ago St A's had to cancel the swim.  Last year they had to shorten the swim about 1/2 way thru the waves.  There are a lot of people who have a bad taste in their mouths about this race.

If you also bump up the entry fee I see no way that the attendance would not fall.

What are the two ways to make money for the hospital? 

1.  Sponsorship
2.  Entry fee income

If entry fee income goes down then sponsorship is going to fall as well.

I hope they figure it out.  Because it would be a shame to mess up this race.

Funny to hear the pot calling the ketlle black--
HFP is doing the same thing as WTC on a smaller level--is HFP only in OHIO-no they're not they're in GA/NC/KY-they have started to branch out as far as they can too. I know for a fact that they run the Mountaineer triathlon in WV. There are other race in WV that they don't run, but I know the cost for that race has gone up and how long before they try to blackout just like the WTC. I will say I know the owners of HFP and they are stand up people but the writing is on the wall-Theyre growing.

And as for the post about Augusta 70.3 finishing and not being handed a medal-GREAT POINT!
You ARE a finisher-congrats!

Walmart? Really...? People are comparing WTC to Walmart?

Walmart has hurt both manufactures by demanding lower wholesale prices for volume and hurt smaller business by selling said products for lower prices that can't be matched. Walmart? (by the way I have major issues with this company).

WTC provides a product that people are willing to pay for, a lot more far. Even if WTC pays venues more money, the venues would not accept the contract if WTC did not bring people, thus tax dollars, to the venue.

WTC is not undercutting price and squeezing out the small guy. If other races are hurt by the WTC it is because the WTC provides a product that people want and are willing to pay for.

Walmart?

I think in some ways people are saying it is worse than Walmart.

If you have a business that competes with WM, you can still try to offer alternative products or negotiate deals with your suppliers that would allow you to compete.

In the Muncie situation at least if I understand everyone's posts and if they are accurate, WTC is apparently making it ILLEGAL for anyone else to operate for roughly 2 months in an entire county, thus making established races illegal and squashing competition.  WTC is going to sell out their events most likely.  So rather than giving a boost to the other race outfits that might get extra competitors who might want to race in the area or part of the course prior to the WTC event, they shut them out.  Then they shut them out for a month after too, which makes no business sense to me at all.  Muncie has about a 4 month season for outdoor tris, and WTC is reportedly taking two of them from everyone.

Therein lies the rub.

Then the blame falls on Muncie for accepting the terms of the agreement. After all it is a free market place and WTC, just like any business, has the right to profit. It would be a contractual agreement not law, thus maybe a breach of contract not illegal.

Muncie should have just done what the ?city? of Miami did. Miami Ironman 70.3 and Miami Man are only days apart this year.

I of course don't know the terms of the agreement. I can only imagine that WTC presented the benefits not only to Muncie, but the local businesses that benefit when a large event comes to town. Significant increase in gross sales the days surrounding the race and of course race day as well as increased taxable revenue for the local municipalities.

In todays economic environment... How is this a bad thing?

Edit: One question. Do we know for a fact that WTC has stipulated that no other events can take place? OR, does Muncie limit the number of permits it grants and WTC won the bid for those permits? just wondering....

Edited by snowriderinfl 2010-10-10 9:45 PM

No, The county has signed an agreement with WTC.  The county cannot issue permits without WTC approval.  Personally, I can't see how this is even legal. 

I talked to some folks here in our market.  The county has not and could not make such an agreement.  They certainly could for county owned land or for county services (like the Sherriff's department) but very few of our waterways are owned by counties or municipalities.  Most are owned by the Stae or the Feds (State Parks and National Parks / Corps of Engineers). 
Additionally, these lands are REQUIRED to be available for public events.  It is part of their charter.  They must make attempts to provide the venues for anyone that asks becasue it is actually public property. 

Not sure how that sets up in the Muncie situation, but I do know that was an agreement entered into by the county commision. 

There has been some reference to the Muncie RD negotiating with WTC to get the dates on the outside of the 60 day window (like 28 days before and 28 days after, or whatever).  My question would be, if they planned on making these negotiations work, why have it placed anyway.  It is a power that WTC should not have.  Local Joe RD should be able to have a same distance race the very next week if he so chooses.  I mean, I wouldn't, but I could. 

Part of what people are saying that I think you are not considering is that in states with short season (here it is about May to September) the effect of WTC dominating the market is going to eventually be that Joe little guy cannot compete (thus the Walmart reference).  I think you are right that it is a bad reference.  It should be more like a Haliburton reference - favor by politicians creates and unfair advantage.  In the case of Muncie, say that the WTC race does sell out and maybe 300 people can't get it in.  So those 300 have no local race to do for 60 days?  I can't imagine that you don't see an issue there. 

I race at least once a month.  Say my sister is getting married on the week of the WTC race - or I have National Guard drill - or I broke my foot in a freak lawnmower accident and I will not be cleared to race until a week after the WTC race.  That's a big problem, in my book. 
Ceratinly, it brings the idea of corrup city and county commisioners into play.  That can never be good, even if it is just suggested by the circumstance. 

I normally don't get into the WTC is taking over the world threads, but I do want to point out one thing. WTC is a business!!! There current model excluded them from almost half the triathlon market. As a business owner myself it was more offensive to me that they didn't do shorter races. The owners of WTC have one job, make money. That is every owners job. I understand some of the complaints about price, blackouts, service, and over crowded races. I personally could care less if a race is WTC or not. I have done both.