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Is P3 Ultegra worth it?
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 2010-10-23 11:51 AM |
Veteran  119  Oakland, CA |  Subject: Is P3 Ultegra worth it?I'm finally starting bike shopping and rode the P3 Ultegra yesterday. It was definitely my fav of the bikes I rode, but they didn't have a P2 in my size (which is why I rode the P3). I'm used to having a slightly aggressive position, because I ride a bike that's too small, so I'm pretty flexible in my lower back. As explained to me from the shops, the components are identical. The geometry is maybe a slight bit more aggressive for the P3 (shops differed on their response to this, which is scary). One shop said they're identical in geometry, just the P3 is more aerodynamic with frame/fork, while the other shop said your position on each bike will be different b/c of stack/reach. Gotta love that! After some research, looks like geo is actually different a bit. Not much, but some? So the question is, is it really worth an extra $800ish for a P3?? If I can get a deal on a 2010 P3, is that better than getting a new 2011 P2? I know it's about fit, but my understanding is that these two will fit similarly (again, correct me if I'm wrong). I don't want to pay an extra $800 if it's not really worth it, but if it actually makes a difference I don't want to buy a P2 and then wish I had upgraded. Thoughts from the BT braintrust? |
| 2010-10-23 12:08 PM in reply to: #3168490 |
Master 5557   , California | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? If I can get a deal on a 2010 P3, is that better than getting a new 2011 P2? Probably... you can save a lot of money when shops are clearing out their year-end inventory - the price on those two bikes might be nearly the same. I did the same thing, except with a frameset. The differences year-to-year on the same frame model are minimal. |
| 2010-10-23 12:09 PM in reply to: #3168490 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? I think you're wrong in assuming the two bikes will fit similarly as many pretty fast triathletes (Chrissie Wellington comes to mind) have opted for the less aggressive P2 over the P3. |
| 2010-10-23 12:11 PM in reply to: #3168490 |
Extreme Veteran 521 Coldstream ,BC | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? You are going to get the same answers that every other person who asks "is it worth it?" has been getting for the last little while. - That all depends... - Can you afford it... - Worth it is relative a relative question... - Worth it is different for everyone... - Maybe it is worth it, but is it $800 worth it... - Only you can decide... So in all seriousness... The P3 is a faster frame (still trying to find the aero data). The P3 will sit you in a slightly more aggressive position. Do you ride in aero all the time, or are you going to be coming up out of aero for a little break on occasion? Will a couple of seconds in a 40k TT make a difference to you? Do you think you'd spend the $800 on a set of race wheels for you P2? Both are bad a$$ bikes, the P3 just a little more so. Only you can really decide. |
| 2010-10-23 12:27 PM in reply to: #3168501 |
Veteran 119 Oakland, CA | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? Thanks all. I'm definitely not assuming they're the same--it's what one of the shops straight up told me. However, it seems that is untrue. As someone who's only ridden a roadie--how will I know if the more aggressive/less aggressive is better for me? I feel like 20 minutes on the bike isn't going to be enough for me to know what's better. |
| 2010-10-23 12:51 PM in reply to: #3168490 |
| 12 | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? Ask to Demo the p3 or p2 for a week. My cervelo dealer offers the rental for about $140 a week which would count towards the purchase of the bike. That would definitely help you decide. I'm in the exact same spot, being a roadie and wanting to switch to a p3 might be too aggressive for me, but I have to give it a try for next season. Good luck and happy shopping!! |
| 2010-10-23 12:58 PM in reply to: #3168490 |
Regular 143 Collegeville, PA | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? I test rode both and settled on the P3 - after the bike fitter did some measurements and flexibility tests. I liked the P2 a lot, and would not have been unhappy with it, but when I got off it and onto the P3, I felt like someone had put booster rockets on my bike - I'm sure the speed difference wasn't that much, but it felt like a lot to me and sold me on it...plus I liked the P3 Ultegra color scheme :-) Unfortunately an elderly woman who shouldn't have had a driver's license sent my bike to an early grave :-( |
| 2010-10-23 2:04 PM in reply to: #3168490 |
Regular 67 Mexico | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? Hi: You can't go wrong with the P3, It's in fact a different frame than the P2 as you can see on cervelo's web site, or any other that shows each bikes specs. I just bought the P3 and I love my bike, I also had the chance to get a very nice deal from a BS, I don't know to much about the P2, but I'm pretty sure you will enjoy the P3 I know it's all about the fitting, personal preferences and budget. |
| 2010-10-23 2:11 PM in reply to: #3168490 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? Didn't read all the replies but just to clear that up for you the geometry for the 48 and 51 is exactly the same. Starting the next frame size up your headtube is shorter on the P3 (hence the more aggressive). If you are on a 48 or 51 it will be the exact same.... I rode both before going with the 51 p2...couldn't justify the extra cost. If I had the extra cash at the time I would have just because I like nice stuff...real world performance difference would most likely be negligible. |
| 2010-10-23 3:45 PM in reply to: #3168490 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? yogatri - 2010-10-23 11:51 AM I'm finally starting bike shopping and rode the P3 Ultegra yesterday. It was definitely my fav of the bikes I rode, but they didn't have a P2 in my size (which is why I rode the P3). I'm used to having a slightly aggressive position, because I ride a bike that's too small, so I'm pretty flexible in my lower back. As explained to me from the shops, the components are identical. The geometry is maybe a slight bit more aggressive for the P3 (shops differed on their response to this, which is scary). One shop said they're identical in geometry, just the P3 is more aerodynamic with frame/fork, while the other shop said your position on each bike will be different b/c of stack/reach. Gotta love that! After some research, looks like geo is actually different a bit. Not much, but some? not sure what you mean by "gotta love that" but that response is actually correct, i can't remember specifics now but the p2 has a different geometry to the p3. i believe it has more reach.... i think the p3 is an awesome bike, considered as one of the most aero frames out there. and if you do get it go to the shop that was telling you about the position being different they seem to actually know what they are talking about. don't go to the one that said geometry is the same. go with the 2010 p3 especially if $800 is not putting a tremendous strain on you. not sure if you are new to triathlons, what you ride now etc etc. but also consider that $800 go a long way in terms of getting other stuff down the road. be it possibly aero wheels etc etc. |
| 2010-10-23 4:39 PM in reply to: #3168490 |
Master 1770 Bedford, MA | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? Cervelo has actually lowered the price on the 2011 P2 by $400, so it may actually be cheaper (if you decided on the P2) to go with the 2011. The price has stayed the same for the P3, so now the difference is $1200. I was pretty much sold on a Cervelo or Kuota this past spring, but ended up with a Blue Triad. This was partially due to a great fit at a shop and a great deal on a 2009 frame. Are you dead set on Cervelo? Have you tried other brands? |
| 2010-10-23 6:18 PM in reply to: #3168659 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? trix - 2010-10-23 3:45 PM yogatri - 2010-10-23 11:51 AM I'm finally starting bike shopping and rode the P3 Ultegra yesterday. It was definitely my fav of the bikes I rode, but they didn't have a P2 in my size (which is why I rode the P3). I'm used to having a slightly aggressive position, because I ride a bike that's too small, so I'm pretty flexible in my lower back. As explained to me from the shops, the components are identical. The geometry is maybe a slight bit more aggressive for the P3 (shops differed on their response to this, which is scary). One shop said they're identical in geometry, just the P3 is more aerodynamic with frame/fork, while the other shop said your position on each bike will be different b/c of stack/reach. Gotta love that! After some research, looks like geo is actually different a bit. Not much, but some? not sure what you mean by "gotta love that" but that response is actually correct, i can't remember specifics now but the p2 has a different geometry to the p3. i believe it has more reach.... i think the p3 is an awesome bike, considered as one of the most aero frames out there. and if you do get it go to the shop that was telling you about the position being different they seem to actually know what they are talking about. don't go to the one that said geometry is the same. go with the 2010 p3 especially if $800 is not putting a tremendous strain on you. not sure if you are new to triathlons, what you ride now etc etc. but also consider that $800 go a long way in terms of getting other stuff down the road. be it possibly aero wheels etc etc. ...or she's on a 48 or 51 and they are exactly the same geometry... At that point you are paying 800 more for a different carbon weave and the more complex rear tire cutout and one less cheeseburger worth of weight. If you have the extra money though than why not...but if you need wheels too, I'd save it and spend the money there instead |
| 2010-10-24 4:29 AM in reply to: #3168490 |
Extreme Veteran 586 Richmond | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? As the poster above mentioned, if you are on the 48 or 51, they geometry is identical. As the sizes increases, the P2 becomes a slightly taller bike in the headtube and slightly shorter bike in the top tube. That being said, if you have a proper bike fit, YOU CAN AND SHOULD BE IN THE EXACT SAME POSITION ON EITHER BIKE. This is very important and what is being missd in this thread so far. The bike does not dictate your position. Your position should dictate the bike. In the case of P2 versus P3, in almost all cases, if you can fit on one, you can fit on the other. Without the need to modify your previously determined ideal position by even 1mm. You position on the P3 would probably have you set-up with one additional spacer under a slightly shorter stem versus that exact same position on a P2. So what does that $800 get you? Identical front end aerodynamics with exactly the same shaped headtubes. The aero edge on the P3 is gained solely through a deeper rear wheel cutout. More of the wheel is shrouded by the frame. How much faster? .5 seconds per kilometer or so. Is this worth it to you for 800? Only you can decide. |
| 2010-10-24 2:44 PM in reply to: #3168490 |
Veteran 119 Oakland, CA | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? Thanks all, this is good insight. I ride around a size 54, for the record. I did ride a Quintana Roo Dulce (but I'm not jazzed about the WSD in case I want to sell later) and a Felt B16. Both shops I went to really had obsessions with Cervelo. I asked about other bikes at one shop and they literally said "I'll put you on this Cannondale Slice if you wanna try it, but if the Cervelo felt good, you gotta go Cervelo--there's no one better." I'd like to try out some more bikes before making a decision. Maybe Orbea, Kuota, Blue. Just gotta find somewhere that isn't 100% Cervelo obsessed I guess. |
| 2010-10-24 3:01 PM in reply to: #3168490 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? If you ride 51 geometry is the same. A P3 Ultegra doesn't have that many Ultegra parts on it if you look at components. I looked at Cervelos when I bought my new bike and was surprised at the cost comparing frame to built bike but looking at parts could tell they save money on the full bike by not using full Ultegra parts. If you can get a deal on P3 '10 compared to P2 '11 compare parts to see what the difference is. Cervelo often changes the part's packages from year to year so even P3 from one year to the next is not exactly the same parts. If you get either P2 or P3 I'd recommend upgrading the brakes. Every shop I went to when looking at new bikes commented that the brakes they use aren't good on either bike. Good luck! |
| 2010-10-24 3:15 PM in reply to: #3169293 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? KathyG - 2010-10-24 3:01 PM If you ride 51 geometry is the same. A P3 Ultegra doesn't have that many Ultegra parts on it if you look at components. I looked at Cervelos when I bought my new bike and was surprised at the cost comparing frame to built bike but looking at parts could tell they save money on the full bike by not using full Ultegra parts. If you can get a deal on P3 '10 compared to P2 '11 compare parts to see what the difference is. Cervelo often changes the part's packages from year to year so even P3 from one year to the next is not exactly the same parts. If you get either P2 or P3 I'd recommend upgrading the brakes. Every shop I went to when looking at new bikes commented that the brakes they use aren't good on either bike. Good luck! why is everyone saying 51? she rides a 54... |
| 2010-10-24 3:24 PM in reply to: #3169303 |
Extreme Veteran 586 Richmond | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? trix - 2010-10-24 3:15 PM KathyG - 2010-10-24 3:01 PM If you ride 51 geometry is the same. A P3 Ultegra doesn't have that many Ultegra parts on it if you look at components. I looked at Cervelos when I bought my new bike and was surprised at the cost comparing frame to built bike but looking at parts could tell they save money on the full bike by not using full Ultegra parts. If you can get a deal on P3 '10 compared to P2 '11 compare parts to see what the difference is. Cervelo often changes the part's packages from year to year so even P3 from one year to the next is not exactly the same parts. If you get either P2 or P3 I'd recommend upgrading the brakes. Every shop I went to when looking at new bikes commented that the brakes they use aren't good on either bike. Good luck! why is everyone saying 51? she rides a 54... Well she didn't actually say that until a couple hours ago now did she? |
| 2010-10-25 12:02 AM in reply to: #3168501 |
Veteran 202 Los Angeles, CA | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? I was so close into getting a P2C last week, but the deal fell through (it was slightly used on Craigslist.) The P3 is definitely more aggressive, and if you continue to look, most brands the more expensive they get the more aggressive they get too. You might check into the Look 576. I'm biased seeing I just got one, but it's similar geometry to the P2....the 2009s are gone, but it looks like they've got some 2010s left at a pretty amazing price. http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BI278M00-Look+576+Aero+Rival+Bike+10.aspx Here's me with mine - it pretty much rocks.  (37933_444667275921_561300921_5496696_6823162_n.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 37933_444667275921_561300921_5496696_6823162_n.jpg (96KB - 15 downloads) |
| 2010-10-25 7:27 AM in reply to: #3168709 |
Master 1584 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? natethomas2000 - 2010-10-23 5:39 PM Cervelo has actually lowered the price on the 2011 P2 by $400, so it may actually be cheaper (if you decided on the P2) to go with the 2011. The price has stayed the same for the P3, so now the difference is $1200. I was pretty much sold on a Cervelo or Kuota this past spring, but ended up with a Blue Triad. This was partially due to a great fit at a shop and a great deal on a 2009 frame. Are you dead set on Cervelo? Have you tried other brands? This is an important point that shouldn't be missed. I can't comment on your fit - only you can determine that. But the 2011 P2's are going to be $2,400 retail - and all the shops in my area have all marked the 2010 P2 down to this same price. I know, I just bought one last week. So the price difference should be closer to $1,200, which gets you a nice set of wheels / several race registrations, etc. I know that, for me, the difference wasn't worth it. |
| 2010-10-25 9:01 PM in reply to: #3168490 |
| 11 | Subject: RE: Is P3 Ultegra worth it? Ok, lets look at this objectively. For a 54cm P2 vs. P3. For all intent and purposes, reach is .1mm longer on the P3. That is considered absolutely negligible. The stack is about 1.4-1.5cm taller on the P2. Unless you need/want a conservative aero setup, both bikes can be setup with virtually identical cockpit dimensions using a slightly different stem/aero bar pad spacers. So the fit is not that different. P3 is 150g lighter and yes it does have a deeper rear wheel cutout which saves somewhere around 4-6 watts of resistance. If it were me I would purchase the 2011 P2 for $2400, save $1200-$1400 over the P3 Ultegra and buy a pair of HED wheels. That will save you not only weight over the Shimano R-500 aero wheels, but also get you an aero savings between 15-20 watts of resistance. So for the total amount of money spent you will have a P2 with a very similar if not identical fit the P3, about the same overall bike weight with the lighter wheels, but about 10-15 watts faster. You could tack on an additional 5 watts of savings with Latex inner tubes and 13-20 watts of savings with an aero helmet. |
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