General Discussion Triathlon Talk » 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27? Rss Feed  
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2010-11-21 7:46 PM

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Master
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Subject: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
I am doing Placid next year as my first Ironman. I did a loop of the course on a 12x25 and I would love to have an extra climbing gear to spin up the hills.

Should I go with an 11x28 or a 12x27?

Any pros/cons with either?

Thanks!


2010-11-21 8:03 PM
in reply to: #3220596

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Master
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
wstchstrTriathlete - 2010-11-21 6:46 PM I am doing Placid next year as my first Ironman. I did a loop of the course on a 12x25 and I would love to have an extra climbing gear to spin up the hills.

Should I go with an 11x28 or a 12x27?

Any pros/cons with either?

Thanks!


I did Lake Placid in 2008 and rode a 12x27. There are some pretty good climbs on the course and wanted a bail out gear. It may be nice to have the 11 but some of those downhills are so fast (~55 mph) that you do not use it. Not sure how strong you are on the bike so harder to say what to use.

Ok, seen your half results. Your a good rider. What you use will also depend on what you have up front, a compact crank would be nice on this course.

Edited by gerald12 2010-11-21 8:09 PM
2010-11-21 8:13 PM
in reply to: #3220596

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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
This year Ultegra's came in 11x28 and not 12x27.

I'd go with 11x28 as you can use extra gear going down hill and one easier gear going up hill.
2010-11-22 6:38 AM
in reply to: #3220620

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Master
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
gerald12 - 2010-11-21 9:03 PM
wstchstrTriathlete - 2010-11-21 6:46 PM I am doing Placid next year as my first Ironman. I did a loop of the course on a 12x25 and I would love to have an extra climbing gear to spin up the hills.

Should I go with an 11x28 or a 12x27?

Any pros/cons with either?

Thanks!


I did Lake Placid in 2008 and rode a 12x27. There are some pretty good climbs on the course and wanted a bail out gear. It may be nice to have the 11 but some of those downhills are so fast (~55 mph) that you do not use it. Not sure how strong you are on the bike so harder to say what to use.

Ok, seen your half results. Your a good rider. What you use will also depend on what you have up front, a compact crank would be nice on this course.


Oops! I left out half my gear train! haha!

I have a 53x39 up front, if that makes a difference.

With the 11x28, is it a huge jump from switching from the 24 to the 28? I have been riding a 12x25 for the past 5 years and I like how there are no huge jumps between changing gears..
2010-11-22 9:55 AM
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
Assuming you're using Shimano derailleurs, the 11-28 cassette is broken down as follows:
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28. The 12-27 c???a?s?s?e?????????t?t??e = 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27. It is said that the "Sweet 16" gear is the most favored gear but i honestly couldn't tell you if that is true or not. According to Shimano, the 11-28 cassette will only work with Ultegra or Dura-Ace whereas the 12-27 can be used on a 105 through Dura-Ace.

I am also wondering if one could change out the smaller ring on the crank from a 39 to a 34. That would also give you a climbing gear without changing out the cassette. I'd be interested if anyone has ever done that (or if it is possible).
2010-11-22 11:21 AM
in reply to: #3221321

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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
fkimura - 2010-11-22 10:55 AM Assuming you're using Shimano derailleurs, the 11-28 cassette is broken down as follows:
11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28. The 12-27 c???a?s?s?e?????????t?t??e = 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27. It is said that the "Sweet 16" gear is the most favored gear but i honestly couldn't tell you if that is true or not. According to Shimano, the 11-28 cassette will only work with Ultegra or Dura-Ace whereas the 12-27 can be used on a 105 through Dura-Ace.

I am also wondering if one could change out the smaller ring on the crank from a 39 to a 34. That would also give you a climbing gear without changing out the cassette. I'd be interested if anyone has ever done that (or if it is possible).


That is a very interesting Q. I am curious too!


2010-11-22 11:25 AM
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
On any course with a flattish section I do miss not having the 16
But I like having the 28 to assure myself I can spin up most any hilll in a normal triathlon

I think I have the best of both worlds by combining an Ultrgra 12-23 and 11-28 to create a 12-28 cassette.

From the 11-28 put aside the 11 and the lock ring with its spacers.
From the 12-23 take the 16, the 12 and the lock ring with its spacers to make the 12-28

And actually the remaining pieces combine to make a 11-23
2010-11-22 11:26 AM
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
No you can't change chain ring on Standard from 39 to 34.

Most say if you are doing IMLP in 5:30 or less on the bike standard crank is fine otherwise you'd be better off riding a compact. Fred, 'pennstate', has some good insights to appropriate gearing for LP from fast guy's perspective. What gearing is appropriate for you is based on your ability on the bike so your power/weight ratio along with your guess what your bike split might be.

Key to IM bike is to ride steady power and the more you spike your power up climbing hills the more it will hurt your run. Even if you don't ride with power steady effort is key . I see advantage of having another easier going up the hills in LP.
2010-11-22 11:35 AM
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
KathyG - 2010-11-22 12:26 PM No you can't change chain ring on Standard from 39 to 34.

Most say if you are doing IMLP in 5:30 or less on the bike standard crank is fine otherwise you'd be better off riding a compact. Fred, 'pennstate', has some good insights to appropriate gearing for LP from fast guy's perspective. What gearing is appropriate for you is based on your ability on the bike so your power/weight ratio along with your guess what your bike split might be.

Key to IM bike is to ride steady power and the more you spike your power up climbing hills the more it will hurt your run. Even if you don't ride with power steady effort is key . I see advantage of having another easier going up the hills in LP.


I am using an Ultegra cassette currently on my tri bike, and from the looks of what is available, I may have no choice but to go with the 11x28 since finding an older Ultegra 6600 12x27 is pretty slim.

Thanks for all the info Kathy!
2010-11-22 11:39 AM
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
fkimura - 2010-11-22 8:55 AM Assuming you're using Shimano derailleurs, the 11-28 According to Shimano, the 11-28 cassette will only work with Ultegra or Dura-Ace whereas the 12-27 can be used on a 105 through Dura-Ace.

Where'd you see this? I've got an 11-28 on a 2011 105 derailleur (I would rather have 12-27 though).
2010-11-22 11:42 AM
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
beanmj - 2010-11-22 12:39 PM
fkimura - 2010-11-22 8:55 AM Assuming you're using Shimano derailleurs, the 11-28 According to Shimano, the 11-28 cassette will only work with Ultegra or Dura-Ace whereas the 12-27 can be used on a 105 through Dura-Ace.

Where'd you see this? I've got an 11-28 on a 2011 105 derailleur (I would rather have 12-27 though).


That is per Shimano specs. I have a Orbea road bike from '07 or '08 and a Kuota tri bike from '06 and both have the older Ultegra derailleur which would mean most space between gears that would work would be 12-27 but with a good mechanic adjusting the shifting both work fine with a 11-28.


2010-11-22 12:32 PM
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
KathyG - 2010-11-22 11:26 AM No you can't change chain ring on Standard from 39 to 34.

Most say if you are doing IMLP in 5:30 or less on the bike standard crank is fine otherwise you'd be better off riding a compact. Fred, 'pennstate', has some good insights to appropriate gearing for LP from fast guy's perspective.


There was a conversation on here not too long ago about this (I can't find it).  Dave Luscan, of the 51 minute 40k TT pedigree, opined that the crossover between using a standard and a compact is at ~4W/kg.   I'd wager there are vanishingly few folks on this board (me included, for sure) who can hit that.
2010-11-22 12:33 PM
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
wstchstrTriathlete - 2010-11-22 11:35 AM
I am using an Ultegra cassette currently on my tri bike, and from the looks of what is available, I may have no choice but to go with the 11x28 since finding an older Ultegra 6600 12x27 is pretty slim.

Thanks for all the info Kathy!


A quick ebay search only returns 85 results.Cool
2010-11-22 12:36 PM
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
wstchstrTriathlete - 2010-11-22 11:35 AM

I am using an Ultegra cassette currently on my tri bike, and from the looks of what is available, I may have no choice but to go with the 11x28 since finding an older Ultegra 6600 12x27 is pretty slim.



There are about a dozen 10 speed 12-27s on ebay right now.  Easy pickings.
2010-11-22 2:16 PM
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
fkimura - 2010-11-22 8:55 AM Assuming you're using Shimano derailleurs, the 11-28 According to Shimano, the 11-28 cassette will only work with Ultegra or Dura-Ace whereas the 12-27 can be used on a 105 through Dura-Ace.

Where'd you see this? I've got an 11-28 on a 2011 105 derailleur (I would rather have 12-27 though).

That was from the Shimano site. The cassette CS-7600 is for Ultegra 

  • Wider gear range : 11-23T, 12-23T, 12-25T, 11-25T, 11-28T NOTE: CS-6700 11-28T requires the use of RD-6700 or RD-7900

Link: http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/road/ultegra_6700/product.-code-CS-6700.-type-.html

The 12-27 is CS-5700 for the 105. I suppose the LBS mechanics know how to adjust the derailleurs and the manufacturer is careful to protect themselves for whatever reasons they have. I have a 12-27 (CS-5700) using an older Dura-Ace and compact crank on my road bike and love it while my wife's new bike is a 2010 Ultegra with a 11-28. She just switched from a triple to a compact and says she prefers the compact set up.



Edited by fkimura 2010-11-22 2:21 PM
2010-11-22 2:42 PM
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
Dura-Ace CS-7900 also has a 12-27.


2010-11-22 3:53 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
Thanks everyone for your input. Perhaps going with a compact might be the way to go and is more of what I am looking for. Its a bit more expensive, but if I can get lucky on Ebay that may mitigate the costs.

FYI, I found this thread that was pretty good about compact vs standard:

http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=232767&start=1
2010-11-23 9:19 AM
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Subject: RE: 10 speed 11x28 or 12x27?
Just an anecdote, but at IMLP this year I rode 5:28 (119th overall) and ran 3:32 (107th overall)... on a 50/34+12/26.  Never once did I feel like I needed a harder gear (at that point I'm flying down hill and would be better off tucked into a more aero position anyway... or better off riding the hoods on a steep and winding descent and controlling my speed by sitting up or tucking down).  But there were a few times where I would not have minded an easier gear.

IMHO it is far easier to be not conservative enough than it is to be too conservative at IMLP, even for a reasonably fast cyclist.

Edited by JoshKaptur 2010-11-23 9:21 AM
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