HM one week after full M - smart? (Page 2)
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2011-01-13 7:58 AM in reply to: #3295827 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: HM one week after full M - smart? Donskiman - 2011-01-12 8:00 PM Here's a little tip for this kind of stuff. Train like you'll be doing an ultra, not for a marathon. I believe, that in addition to Scout's great advice, this is a very important take away if you are going to go forward with this. Shane |
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2011-01-13 7:59 AM in reply to: #3296472 |
Master 1704 Charlotte | Subject: RE: HM one week after full M - smart? roch1009 - 2011-01-13 8:15 AM And I'm wondering why it's so wrong if most training plans, including mine, have two or three 20 miles followed by little or no rest days. Sure, I know they're to be done at a LSD pace, but what if we just consider the half to be a glorified active recovery run? And I am paraphrasing something I read in Hal Higdon's plans, your body starts to "break down" on runs greater than 20 miles (which is why most marathon plans have a max of 20 miles). This is also why many of us hit the wall around 20-22 miles. I can go out, run 20 miles at marathon pace preceded by a 10 mile tempo run and spend the next two days running around an amusement park with my four year old. When I run 26.2 at the same pace I can barely get out of my house for 3 days and cry when I have to try and get off the toilet. And to your original post you asked if it was smart, not if you can do it. I have no doubt you could do it, but will you regret it? And remember, none (well most of us) are not experts, we just go off of our experience and chime in with our .02. Edited by bgraboski 2011-01-13 8:18 AM |
2011-01-13 9:11 AM in reply to: #3294958 |
Member 146 | Subject: RE: HM one week after full M - smart? I've run a half marathon the week after a full 3 times. The last time I did it (2009), I PR'd in the half (8:17 min/mi) and was 6 mins off my PR in the full. I didn't run at all the week in between, I just swam (I wasn't cycling at the time, but now I'd probably ride on the trainer). At around mile 7, you'll think "this was pretty stupid" because you'll realize that you haven't quite recovered from the marathon yet, but then you'll do it again the next year.... Or maybe that's just me. Good luck, and have fun with it. |
2011-01-13 11:28 AM in reply to: #3296472 |
Master 1588 San Francisco | Subject: RE: HM one week after full M - smart? roch1009 - 2011-01-13 5:15 AM Fine, now I'll go from being cheeky to being defensive. My working logic is that if I race the marathon smartly (i.e. in a disciplined manner), I will actually be better off than after my first one (where I ran 8 miles in the next 7 days). And I'm wondering why it's so wrong if most training plans, including mine, have two or three 20 miles followed by little or no rest days. Sure, I know they're to be done at a LSD pace, but what if we just consider the half to be a glorified active recovery run? And to respond to the base question - sure, there could always be more. I ran 1100+ miles in 2010, which isn't much to most "runners", but it was weighted to the second half of the year, and if everything goes to plan, I'll have 1,500 (trailing 12 months) prior to the marathon. Jeff, I'll back you up a little bit. My run volume isn't any more than yours (i.e. 1100 miles/year) and I've done back to back tris, back to back weekends of ironman/ironman, ultra/mary, and goofy challenge just in the last 9 months. So it's more than doable. That being said, I don't run/race for speed. I just like the challenge of finding unique ways to push my endurance and see what I can do which perhaps you are trying to do as well. |
2011-01-13 1:10 PM in reply to: #3296542 |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: HM one week after full M - smart? roch1009 - 2011-01-13 8:51 AM Hell, I'm just happy I was able to receive two posts from world-renowned guest blog columnist Scout7! (Notice the lack of sarc font) But it seems the basic premise of those against is that I can't really race the marathon if I've got the half the following week. That I don't get. Now, on to trying to run like a Stoic I would be excited to be getting Scout's advice as well. I have only run one marathon but I raced the whole thing and it wrecked me for a quite a few days. I can't imagine that I would have had any business running 13 miles a week later. Frank Shorter said something to the effect that everybody should have to walk down the stairs backwards for awhile after a marathon. That may be the difference in opinions. I know that my "race" effort (at my level of conditioning) would make me ineffective for more than a week. Maybe your race effort won't have the same effect. Good luck and have fun. (as an aside, I am skipping one of my favorite races that I do every year because it is a week after my spring marathon. I am not as brave as you). |
2011-01-13 3:53 PM in reply to: #3297594 |
Veteran 1097 Elizabethtown, KY | Subject: RE: HM one week after full M - smart? wannabefaster - 2011-01-13 2:10 PM roch1009 - 2011-01-13 8:51 AM I would be excited to be getting Scout's advice as well. I have only run one marathon but I raced the whole thing and it wrecked me for a quite a few days. I can't imagine that I would have had any business running 13 miles a week later. Frank Shorter said something to the effect that everybody should have to walk down the stairs backwards for awhile after a marathon. That may be the difference in opinions. I know that my "race" effort (at my level of conditioning) would make me ineffective for more than a week. Maybe your race effort won't have the same effect. Good luck and have fun. (as an aside, I am skipping one of my favorite races that I do every year because it is a week after my spring marathon. I am not as brave as you).Hell, I'm just happy I was able to receive two posts from world-renowned guest blog columnist Scout7! (Notice the lack of sarc font) But it seems the basic premise of those against is that I can't really race the marathon if I've got the half the following week. That I don't get. Now, on to trying to run like a Stoic One man's brave is another's foolhardy . . . |
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2011-01-13 4:03 PM in reply to: #3294958 |
Member 49 Redmond | Subject: RE: HM one week after full M - smart? Is it your best idea? No. Is it doable? Sure. It definitely helps that your plan is to hang out with your wife and take it relatively easy during the half. For the full, I would go with a conservative pacing strategy - this is not time to race is all-out, balls-to-the-wall. Run a good, evenly paced, solid full and then take it VERY easy for the week in between. I'd recommend no running and just some swimming or easy cycling, but if you HAVE to run, do a mid-week easy run of a few miles. Just enough to make sure you remember how. It'll be mentally challenging, but if you're hanging with your wife for the half, that'll help. I'll second the suggestion of doing back-to-back long & medium runs on the weekend. Do your long run on Saturday and follow it with a run of about half that distance on Sunday. Good luck! (Also, the FP is an awesome race. My marathon PR is from that race and I absolutely loved it.) |
2011-01-13 4:07 PM in reply to: #3298094 |
Runner | Subject: RE: HM one week after full M - smart? RunningDawnie - 2011-01-13 5:03 PM I'd recommend no running and just some swimming or easy cycling, but if you HAVE to run, do a mid-week easy run of a few miles. Just enough to make sure you remember how. I think this is highly dependent on the individual. Personally, I've always preferred to run for recovery anyway, so I take maybe a day off, and run real easy the rest of the week. Mostly to make sure you are uninjured, and to clear them out. But that's my personal choice. Some people need more/less recovery. |
2011-01-13 5:15 PM in reply to: #3294958 |
Expert 2555 Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: HM one week after full M - smart? I still say that properly trained it should be no problem. People do stuff like this all the time. A few years back when I was a youngster of 48, I ran a PR marathon, 6 days later I won the overall in a sprint du, one week later I had a huge HM PR, 2 weeks after that another PR in a marathon. It's possible, but your training will dictate whether or not it's probable. If you do the bare minimum training for the marathon, the HM may be a long painful few hours. |
2011-01-17 6:30 PM in reply to: #3298243 |
Master 2426 Central Indiana | Subject: RE: HM one week after full M - smart? Donskiman - 2011-01-13 6:15 PM I still say that properly trained it should be no problem. People do stuff like this all the time. A few years back when I was a youngster of 48, I ran a PR marathon, 6 days later I won the overall in a sprint du, one week later I had a huge HM PR, 2 weeks after that another PR in a marathon. It's possible, but your training will dictate whether or not it's probable. If you do the bare minimum training for the marathon, the HM may be a long painful few hours. Damn!!! How many mpw were you training before this 4 week sufferfest? |
2011-01-17 6:45 PM in reply to: #3294958 |
Fishers, IN | Subject: RE: HM one week after full M - smart? If you just run the marathon, no problem - though that takes a lot of discipline. If you really race it, then you will minimally have to take it easy on the half. A good marathon takes a lot out of you. Why didn't you just do the derby half and then the indy mini. That is a bit more doable. The risk of injury right after running a hard marathon is much greater than normal. Be careful not to blow your entire summer on a whim. |
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