General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Running with my dog strategy Rss Feed  
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2011-02-14 5:01 PM
in reply to: #3353665

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Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy
no, not true! You can get several types of the prong collar, even ones that have a black rubber cover over the part closest to their neck.  Prong collars are used in professional training, they are not going to cause bleeding unless the handler is an idiot!


2011-02-14 5:09 PM
in reply to: #3353976

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Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy
ratherbeswimming - 2011-02-14 10:04 AM
gearboy - 2011-02-14 10:46 AM
Tizzy - 2011-02-13 9:02 PM prong collar, best invention and they are NOT cruel (many people think they are). As long as used correctly you will have control over the dog all the time. I hate to think you are attached to him incase he takes off when you least expect it.


This kind of statement reminds me of when we did not use anesthetics in young kids because we believed they either did not feel pain or it did not matter.  Think circumcisions done with no numbing agents.

Take the prong collar, and put it on your leg over your pants.  Then have someone yank it the same way you would do if you were giving the dog a sharp correction. If you would have no problem with that being done until you figured out what the person wanted you to do differently and how to do it, then go for it.


That's exactly what the trainer did with it the first time he gave it to me. It's important that if you ever use one, you understand how to use it. Don't ever just go buy one and figure it out. Go to a professional to figure out what works for your dog. 


Do the same with a choker chain or a normal collar, it will hurt and it will cut the circulation off eventually. The pinch is to prevent you choking the dog and hurting it`s neck so it can`t breath.  It is not the chain, collar, leash or the dogs fault it all comes down to the handler and how they handle their dog!!!!! If you are going to yank on a pinch collar so hard the dog yelps or bleeds then YOU as the handler have issues!!
2011-02-14 5:26 PM
in reply to: #3353253

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Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy
mscott203 - 2011-02-14 9:38 AM Hi everyone,
I just thought I would post a piece of success, and ask how others do it.
All of my running I do with my dog which I have had since September. He is a 3 year old weimeraner and a great pet, but very stubborn, and so far relatively poorly trained.

We've probably managed a couple of hundred miles together now, and he never stops thinking its a race and is constantly pulling me. I run him on my left and keep him on a short leash, which is tied around my waist. I work to ensure his neck never gets past my thigh as we run together, otherwise, he will tend to try to cross my path when interested in something to our right and I trip over him. Its usually a struggle and not often pleasant as I am constantly either praising him for not pulling, or giving him a "heel" command, to get him back into his "spot". I have hunted all over the net for strategies on this one, but haven't run across a good answer to "whats the best way to do it". But... Just last night we had breakthrough.

I tied the leash more tightly than usual around my waist, and this time against my skin. I was hoping to avoid having it rotate around my waist when he pulls. I have the leash itself attached at my back, which allows me to use my body some for control, just by rotating my hips when necessary, and don't usually have to get my hands involved. on this night, because the leash was tighter and against my skin it didn't rotate at all with his pull and he gained nothing from pulling me for a change. Usually, he at least gains a minimal rotation of the leash around my waist and a slight ability to move further ahead of me. Anyway when he realized rather quickly that there was no gain in pulling he stopped pulling for the first time in two hundred miles, and just relaxed a bit and trotted beside me in his spot for the whole run. It was at last the run I had been hoping for with my dog. We usually do between 3 and 5 miles, but it was pleasant enough that we ran for 7.
 
sorry for the long post.
Anyway I wanted to share my success and ask how others do it. 


1. congrats on the success that's really key--once they realize there is 'no gain in pulling' yeah, they stop pulling!

2. if your dog is poorly trained anyway, though, there's a WORLD of difference a good trainer--even basic obedience classes, which will include walking--can make. also training a dog generally--meaning walking, good household behavior, calmness (basic commands)--tends to make it much better behaved in all the areas. It's actually more difficult to 'spot train' a dog in just one area (e.g., walking/running).

3. if your waist-leash system is working for you, fine. i'd also make sure his recall ['come' or 'here' so that the dog immediately returns to you] is perfect in case he does get away from you [refer back to basic training ...]

4. like the other (former) pro trainer on here, i don't argue dog training or gear on non-training open forums. In the end, you need to find methods and gear that work for you and your dog and your goals. sometimes there are shortcuts. sometimes there aren't.

5. Great that you could go for 7, but since he's used to running 3-5, build up slowly over time (a few more minutes a week or a few tenths of a mile per run more). His anatomy needs it, just like a human's would.

and an excellent resource ...

Dr. Ian Dunbar's 'pulling on leash' handout ... http://siriuspup.com/pop_leash.html
2011-02-14 7:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy
hey, thanks everyone for all the thoughts and information. I just thought I would add a bit more background to this. 

We have been working very closely with a trainer. We did a two month inboard training program. We opted for a fully positive reinforcement program, so no shock collar use etc. the only reinforcements encouraged with this trainer are our own voices, attentions and praise. This has been a really slow process but my wife and I agree it should provide the most enduring training and success. She continues to go to classes with this trainer and spends two hours per week or so in class with him, and another number of hours per week working on basic commands on her own. I probably negate this training some with our runs, but... As other wiemeraner owners, no doubt, know... This dog needs a ton of exercise to even be tolerable in our home. So I run him to get him exercise. He is actually pretty good on the walk, and pretty good with basic commands at this point. Even off leash at the dog park he is awesome and gets along great with other dogs.
 It really is our runs together (and leash reactivity when other dogs are near) that are the last frontier with him. (I know this has a lot to do with me and my own inconsistencies and impatience at times. I am working on that too). He just really enjoys being out on the run. He just constantly wants/wanted this to be a race.
 
I certainly didn't intend for this to be any debate of any sort, and thanks to all for guarding the peace on this. I know that people can get passionate about their philosophies on dog training.

I am pleased with the success of my current methods... railed walkways, and a tight around me leash. this has been working consistently now for the last three runs. It has been nice. 

I like the dog trainer comparison to a bike fitter. Hehe... It was easy to convince my wife to do the dog trainer, but has been much harder to convince her of the value, and therefore the expense of a bike fitter, as she often holds the purse strings.
 
Anyway, still interested in what methods have worked for others.  
2011-02-14 7:17 PM
in reply to: #3355155

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Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy
mscott203 - 2011-02-14 6:07 PM hey, thanks everyone for all the thoughts and information. I just thought I would add a bit more background to this. 

We have been working very closely with a trainer. We did a two month inboard training program. We opted for a fully positive reinforcement program, so no shock collar use etc. the only reinforcements encouraged with this trainer are our own voices, attentions and praise. This has been a really slow process but my wife and I agree it should provide the most enduring training and success. She continues to go to classes with this trainer and spends two hours per week or so in class with him, and another number of hours per week working on basic commands on her own. I probably negate this training some with our runs, but... As other wiemeraner owners, no doubt, know... This dog needs a ton of exercise to even be tolerable in our home. So I run him to get him exercise. He is actually pretty good on the walk, and pretty good with basic commands at this point. Even off leash at the dog park he is awesome and gets along great with other dogs.
 It really is our runs together (and leash reactivity when other dogs are near) that are the last frontier with him. (I know this has a lot to do with me and my own inconsistencies and impatience at times. I am working on that too). He just really enjoys being out on the run. He just constantly wants/wanted this to be a race.
 
I certainly didn't intend for this to be any debate of any sort, and thanks to all for guarding the peace on this. I know that people can get passionate about their philosophies on dog training.

I am pleased with the success of my current methods... railed walkways, and a tight around me leash. this has been working consistently now for the last three runs. It has been nice. 

I like the dog trainer comparison to a bike fitter. Hehe... It was easy to convince my wife to do the dog trainer, but has been much harder to convince her of the value, and therefore the expense of a bike fitter, as she often holds the purse strings.
 
Anyway, still interested in what methods have worked for others.  


Is your wife the one that is consistently doing the majority of the training with the dog?  It was a little difficult to extract that from your reply.  If she (your wife) is, that's issue #1 that you need to work to correct.  Even the best trained dog will give issues to someone who hardly works it and reinforces the training.

I know active dogs for sure...I have an 18 month old Belgian Malinois.

2011-02-14 7:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy
Yeah, she's the trainer, I am the exerciser. That just seems to be the way it works out.
Its Kind of funny really. She is a physical therapist, and I am a mental health counselor by profession. One would think it would work the other way around.
Anyway, on my way out for another run. I wish I could teach him to swim and bike with me too. Its his needs that get me out the door often times.


2011-02-14 11:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy
mscott203 - 2011-02-15 9:07 AM
Anyway, still interested in what methods have worked for others.  


Heh. It looks like you know exactly what you need to do. Be consistent, apply the training. Not so hard

Another thought on exercising your pup, if he really needs more ... teach him how to fetch. find a grassy hill. sit on top of it. throw the ball (toy bone, newspaper, whatever) down the hill. Have him bring it back to you. Repeat.

Sure your dog can learn how to swim. Got any open water nearby where dogs are allowed? yeah, I'd wait for spring too though

as for what methods have worked for me ... well ... honestly, I've walked/run with hundreds of dogs and taught that many humans how to do so with their dogs ... I have a lot of tricks and gear ideas up my sleeve. It just depends on the dog.

As for me and my dogs (if ANYONE posts horror stories about my own dogs, I will be so ashamed, ha ha), I am absolutely on the side of teaching them how to move with me OFF leash first. Then the on-leash is never a problem. I don't need corrective methods or equipment. The dog goes where I go unless given permission to explore. Period.

one simple method I use with a dog when first working with it on-leash is whatever way it goes, I go the opposite. Pretty soon, it learns the only way it's going to go anywhere at all is if it follows alongside me Fairly short leash (loose, always loose) held with BOTH hands so the leash length is ALWAYS consistent works for me. Less likely to trip over the dog that way too.
2011-02-15 6:22 AM
in reply to: #3355425

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Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy
TriAya - 2011-02-14 10:38 PM
Another thought on exercising your pup, if he really needs more ... teach him how to fetch. find a grassy hill. sit on top of it. throw the ball (toy bone, newspaper, whatever) down the hill. Have him bring it back to you. Repeat.


This works if you have stairs in your house too.  I use to just throw the ball up the stairs and get the dog to chase it.  Over and over and over again. 
2011-02-15 7:26 PM
in reply to: #3353253

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Subject: RE: Running with my dog strategy
    I have been running with my 4 yr old lab mix (a rescue from the pound) for the last 2 years with "The Buddy System" leash which is hands free by attaching to your waist and has a bungee type cord attaches to dog collar. It allows 360 degree swivel and if she pulls the bungee system doesn't pull me too much. Of course we did take  her to a 2 week training course to learn basic commands and walk on leash!
    She actually loves interval runs almost more than the steady long runs (she has run up to 10 miles with me).

JON
 
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