General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Starting Negative split training Rss Feed  
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2011-03-04 1:48 PM

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Subject: Starting Negative split training

Through the interned and BT there is a lot of positive write up on negative split training.  As I'm adding this in to my training schedule I'm looking for suggestions in regards to Frequency per week or month in my training schedule and HR zone suggestions/considerations?

Thanks,

Jeff



2011-03-04 1:53 PM
in reply to: #3382959

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Subject: RE: Starting Negative split training
It's easy...almost every run I try to run last half faster than first half. It doesn't need to be huge difference sometimes it might be 10-20" in a 40' run. If you do out and back note time for each half. If you run with Garmin just pick up the pace a bit as your run progresses.
2011-03-04 2:26 PM
in reply to: #3382959

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Subject: RE: Starting Negative split training
I was basically going to suggest the same thing as Kathy.  Unless you mean something else when yuo say "negative split training", I assume that just means you finish faster than you started.  It's not a bad thing to do with a lot of your workouts, but the "faster" need not be by a whole lot.  It shouldn't impact your training schedule at all.
2011-03-04 2:32 PM
in reply to: #3382959

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Subject: RE: Starting Negative split training
Took a quick look at your training logs...are you adding an variation in intensity to your current workouts, or are they all a steady pace?

Learning to pace is a great tool whether you are negative split racing/training or not. but if everything so far has been at the same steady effort, you'll gain a lot just by adding some variations in trianing pace.

Edited by AdventureBear 2011-03-04 2:33 PM
2011-03-04 2:40 PM
in reply to: #3383049

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Subject: RE: Starting Negative split training

AdventureBear - 2011-03-04 2:32 PM Took a quick look at your training logs...are you adding an variation in intensity to your current workouts, or are they all a steady pace? Learning to pace is a great tool whether you are negative split racing/training or not. but if everything so far has been at the same steady effort, you'll gain a lot just by adding some variations in trianing pace.

Thanks for your reply and yes to trying to increase intensity. With most evens I naturally do a faster second half but I'm looking to increase my run pace specifically. My long-term goal is to have a 45 to 50 min. 10K race pace.

2011-03-04 2:43 PM
in reply to: #3382966

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Subject: RE: Starting Negative split training

KathyG - 2011-03-04 1:53 PM It's easy...almost every run I try to run last half faster than first half. It doesn't need to be huge difference sometimes it might be 10-20" in a 40' run. If you do out and back note time for each half. If you run with Garmin just pick up the pace a bit as your run progresses.

Thanks for your reply. I already run a second half faster. I'm looking to add training that will increase my run pace.



2011-03-04 2:49 PM
in reply to: #3383075

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Subject: RE: Starting Negative split training
harlequinduck - 2011-03-04 3:43 PM

KathyG - 2011-03-04 1:53 PM It's easy...almost every run I try to run last half faster than first half. It doesn't need to be huge difference sometimes it might be 10-20" in a 40' run. If you do out and back note time for each half. If you run with Garmin just pick up the pace a bit as your run progresses.

Thanks for your reply. I already run a second half faster. I'm looking to add training that will increase my run pace.

Best thing to do to reach your goal of running faster, is increase the amount of running you do. How many days a week do you run currently?  If you can add a day a week for a few weeks just divide the amount of your running over more days and do gradual increase in running each week 10% or less. Many run 6-7x a week for best results. Frequency in running and thus volume helps most folks get faster.

2011-03-04 6:56 PM
in reply to: #3382959

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Subject: RE: Starting Negative split training

Thanks for the replies. My plan was to add another day in my weekly training plan for running. After consulting will a local and triathlon and ski expert I've been convinced to continue building on base as I have and save pace and tempo training for later in the season. Just looking to change things up a bit since most of my training is indoors and monotony is a byproduct of  hours on a stationary bike and tread mill. When I do implement Negative split I will use the model below  for 5k. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Mile 1     11:18/5.3 mph
Mile 2     10:21/5.8 mph
Mile 3      9:41/6.2 mph
Mile.1      9:05/6.6 mph

 

2011-03-04 7:26 PM
in reply to: #3382959

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Subject: RE: Starting Negative split training

Agree with your coach and some others who simply suggest running more.  Don't worry about pace.



Edited by tri808 2011-03-04 7:27 PM
2011-03-04 7:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Starting Negative split training
harlequinduck - 2011-03-04 6:56 PM

Thanks for the replies. My plan was to add another day in my weekly training plan for running. After consulting will a local and triathlon and ski expert I've been convinced to continue building on base as I have and save pace and tempo training for later in the season. Just looking to change things up a bit since most of my training is indoors and monotony is a byproduct of  hours on a stationary bike and tread mill. When I do implement Negative split I will use the model below  for 5k. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Mile 1     11:18/5.3 mph
Mile 2     10:21/5.8 mph
Mile 3      9:41/6.2 mph
Mile.1      9:05/6.6 mph

 



As others have said, I wouldn't get too fixated on my goal paces quite yet. Focus on building a solid base. Just for the sake of discussion though, I think the spreads on your 5k plan are way too broad. Negative splitting as an effective race strategy does not mean trotting along the first half and then sprinting the second half but should be a solid steady effort throughout with a modest amount of restrainst the first half in order for you to have a strong second half effort. In you could hit say a 10:10 first mile, 10:00 second, and finish with anything under 10:00 would be a good race. I like to think of my races in thirds where the first is run with your head (restraint), second with your legs (strength), and third with your heart (desire).
2011-03-04 8:16 PM
in reply to: #3383464

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Subject: RE: Starting Negative split training
popsracer - 2011-03-04 7:55 PM
harlequinduck - 2011-03-04 6:56 PM

Thanks for the replies. My plan was to add another day in my weekly training plan for running. After consulting will a local and triathlon and ski expert I've been convinced to continue building on base as I have and save pace and tempo training for later in the season. Just looking to change things up a bit since most of my training is indoors and monotony is a byproduct of  hours on a stationary bike and tread mill. When I do implement Negative split I will use the model below  for 5k. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Mile 1     11:18/5.3 mph
Mile 2     10:21/5.8 mph
Mile 3      9:41/6.2 mph
Mile.1      9:05/6.6 mph

 

As others have said, I wouldn't get too fixated on my goal paces quite yet. Focus on building a solid base. Just for the sake of discussion though, I think the spreads on your 5k plan are way too broad. Negative splitting as an effective race strategy does not mean trotting along the first half and then sprinting the second half but should be a solid steady effort throughout with a modest amount of restrainst the first half in order for you to have a strong second half effort. In you could hit say a 10:10 first mile, 10:00 second, and finish with anything under 10:00 would be a good race. I like to think of my races in thirds where the first is run with your head (restraint), second with your legs (strength), and third with your heart (desire).

I've received a lot of great advice.As I still have base building to do it will be another couple of months before I implement tempo training. Your assessment of my 5k plan will be used and I appreciate your insight.



2011-03-04 10:40 PM
in reply to: #3382959

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Subject: RE: Starting Negative split training
It may help you to understand that "negative splitting" a race indicates that you've paced well, that you havn't spent all your energy currency in the first half of the race, which generally leads to a slower race than if you negative split. Naturally going too slow in the first half may leave some speed "on the table" so to speak.

This pacing obviously needs to be practiced. But rather than consider negative splitting a specific type or strategy of training per se, focus more on your sustainable paces in training. Rather than go from your current "base" training efforts of 11 min/mile (just an example) to the 5k example you posted above as a training run, start to include segments of training at faster, even paces.

Eg. During a 3 mile run, Mile 1, 11 min, Mile 2 10:30 min, Mile 3 11 min. The next week, do 1.5 miles at the 10:30 pace, the next week do 2 miles at the 10:30 min pace. This way you are adding in incremental time at slightly faster paces, teaching your body what that pace feels like. trying to incorporate multiple paces in a single run in a complex strategy is something more appropriate for someone with a LOT of miles in their shoes.

There are plenty of strategies for how to get faster on the run, but I would caution against thinking of "negative splitting" as a specific type of trainign strategy to get faster. Rather, when you are approaching race day, you can practice specific negative split runs as a way to practice pacing for your race. And like someone above said, the 2nd half need only be slightly faster than the first. Too much difference between the first & second half of the race/pace is going to either a) leave speed on the table or b) cause you to go anaerobic too soon and force you to slow down.

Edited by AdventureBear 2011-03-04 10:40 PM
2011-03-04 10:50 PM
in reply to: #3383645

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Subject: RE: Starting Negative split training
Great advise I will utilize. Thanks again for your insight.
2011-03-04 10:58 PM
in reply to: #3382959

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Subject: RE: Starting Negative split training
In a short period of time I've gained great information that I plan to implement in training. I look forward to seeing this knowledge applied to a race day. I feel re-motivated in my present training plan but find I'm even Chomping-at the-bit more than usual awaiting for Alaska to thaw. 
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