hypoxic swimming drills are they worth it ?

My coach in high school had us do them all the time. I swam a 1:02:85 100 yd backstroke, a 1:10:XX 100 free style (my free sucked!)

That was with 18-20 hours of practice per week

Nowadays, I never do hypoxic sets, and I swim a 1:09 100 free in practice (PR), and am usually 1:12-1:16

This is with 2-6 hours of swimming per week.

Not much benefit for me. I think for pure sprinters it might help, but for distance swimmers, I don't think so.

Thanks @AdventureBear didn't know there was a thread about this :-)

next time I'll search before asking

Scientific or myth--I still think it has placebo effect. Mental advantages cannot be measured. I know for me that if I go to take a breath and get waked that I instantly flash to the fact that I don't NEED air. Ive done no-breath sets, and hypoxic sets so what is one lost breath.

One of the biggest/most common threads in tri forums is overcoming the panic of an open water swim. I believe this plays into it.

Do what works for you.

It also has some serious consequences if done wrong.  Holding your breath while swimming doesn't cause hypoxia, but it does cause a buildup of carbon dioxide called hypercarbia.  This is what causes the urge to breathe, however when it gets built up beyond a certain point, it makes you STOP BREATHING.

Given its dubious benefits, it's not worth it.

There's always an old thread to find.  If everyone searched before asking and just re-read the old thread, then this would be a very quiet, and very boring, forum. 

A new thread may bring up new answers or at least the comments from new people.  Plenty of new people since AdventureBear started that thread in January of 2007.

Derek-as usual I do agree with you. My point was only to do it as safely as you can. I do still listen to my body, as well as I suggest others do. I would COMPARE it to doing speedwork-I do it just faster than race pace at times, it hurts and its hard, and if I have to jump off early or slow down-i do, but I still try to improve. My only point was that it can be done safely with mental benefits, as I mentioned.

No disagreement here.

Was never a competitive swimmer and have not done one and probably never will.

Don't confuse hypoxic swimming (holding your breath to simulate altitude training), which is a joke, with breath control, which is an important aspect of being a good swimmer. As you mention, the ability to keep your cool when an immediate breath isn't available is priceless in an open water start.

How do you practice breath control?  I'm still working on breathing.  Once, in an attempt to help with this, my swim instructor had me do several lengths in 5, 4, 3 . . .  breaths.  It seemed to help with my constant concern about getting another breath - maybe the placebo effect of my body learning that I didn't really need to breathe as often as I wanted.  I understand the point really wasn't hypoxic training.

THANKS-exactly what Im trying to say

Its Called HyperCapnia

I scuba dive and I use a machine called a Close Circuit Rebreather. It recycles my gas and uses a sodalime material to scrub out the CO2 in my breathing loop and add oxygen back in that my body metabolizes.

This is not directed at you but the general Thread. 

1. I takes a long time to get into hypercapnia Mode. In fact it DOESN"T stop you from Breathing at all. It makes you breath FASTER and harder and it disables your ability to think clearly. Almost everyone on a Rebreather does some hypercapnia training, breathing on a machine with out the sodalime to remove CO2. Your breathing increases and all you have to do once you feel it is turn a valve and breath normal air without CO2. Not one of us had the capability in our class of turning the valve to save our lives. Our instructors had to do it for us. This takes a while to set in. It took about 15 mins on a Machine that I am rebreathing my exhaled CO2 with every breath. Not just increased levels from hyperventalating.

I think it would be pretty rare to get into hypercapnia while swimming your overwhelming desire to breath would take over and force you to stop swimming.  This is an incident on video of a diver in hypercapnia. Silly part is the bastard still thinks he was OK the whole dive. Divers are Type A and never like to admit screwing up almost cost them their lives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RBzqy_s5Tw&feature=related

I can see physc. Merit to doing hypoxic breathing. However if done right I would really like to know how Hypoxic the body is? We breath 21% oxygen, fill out lungs full with it but our body only metabolizes about 4% of that at best. Your still exhaling 16-17% Oxygen with each breath. Granted yes you use more when working harder. But your body is still not consuming 21% O2 with every breath.

I can't see how it helps you physically. And don't get me started on Shallow Water Blackout. It would also be difficult to do while just swimming. Not impossible but very difficult.

Do you ever run or cycle underwater?

I'm guessing "No".  70-95% of the time while you are swimming you are not able to breath.  You are able to breathe 100% of the time while running or cycling.  It's different. 

I think there are valuable lessons for you to learn mentally (if not physically) through various "breath control" sets.

Unless you are swimming backstroke you are always practicing breath control b/c you are never able to freely breathe while swimming. The better you get at ryhthmically breathing the easier all of it gets. Those sets of breathing every 3,5,7 per 25yd or whatever are good ways to learn. So are flip turns.  Trying to maintain speed and form while changing up your breathing patterns will force you to breathe more effectively and efficiently. That's not to say that you go out and try and swim as far as you can without a breath, as that can be pretty dangerous. But to breathe with a purpose every single time just like you pull/kick with a purpose every single time will help you to be a more effective swimmer and allow you to make adjustments calmly when you happen to miss that next breath you thought you were going to get. When I train hard or race the #1 thing I focus on is breathing. Technique is second.

Good deal.  Thanks.

I was a competitive swimmer for many years (sprinter) and often did hypoxic sets in practice.  As others have said, I think it does have some beneficial value in teaching your body that you don't NEED to breathe. Especially if you tend to breathe every 2 strokes. Bilateral breathing and/or breathing every 4-6 strokes will help you get into a better stroke rhythm and increase your efficiency/speed in the water.  Hypoxic sets (i like the term 'breath control' that was used earlier) have value in teaching your body to control your breathing. 

And in regards to holding your breath while biking/running - the answer is no.  However, I do focus on controlling my breathing and consciously try to make my inhale/exhale 2:1.  This keeps me from panting, helps control my heart rate, and ensures I'm taking in adequate oxygen to stay aerobic as long as possible.  I look at hypoxic sets as training for the swimming equivalent to this.

I have to point out that this isn't necessarily true. I bring this up in every thread on this subject.

I lost a friend who was doing these "safely". He was a healthy, 27 year old man with a very bright future and who made a friend of everyone he met.

He was a competitive swimmer and had been trained to do these kinds of sets. He drowned in a pool with lifeguards on duty and surrounded by other people.

The minor, possible mental benefits are not worth risking one's life for.

FWIW, I do think that breath control is important, and using sets of different breathing patterns is of benefit in this area.  I guess my issue is with the term "hypoxic set".  To even remotely approach becoming hypoxic, you have to hold your breath for an extended period of time (far longer than is done breathing every 3, 5, 7 strokes).  This is where the carbon dioxide issues arise.

I wish we'd just quit using the term for breath control sets.  Complete misnomer.

It can be done safely-breathe-

NO DISRESPECT to your friend, but I don't know what he was doing or what he ultimately drown from. If anything he drown from irresponsible lifeguards would be a great argument, heart arrhythmia-etc. lastly 1 example doesn't make it the standard.

As noted already some people use breath control. And some use it during running as well. ANY breath control-hypercapnia-etc can lead to arrhythmias which can lead to death.  All Im saying is that we all as athletes push ourselves in our sport on a regular basis.

If I hold my breath or exhale 1 stroke longer I doubt Im putting myself in great danger. I believe this because on NUMEROUS occasions I have been waked and have survived. Shallow water blackouts, ignoring the bodys responses, repeated sets of breath training are NOT what Im suggesting. Im saying the body can handle a great amount of stress and we push it many ways, including doing things were afraid of.

Im suggesting a form IN MY OPINION purely as a mental training tool. Im also not upset,agressive by anything anyone has posted, Im just making sure I don't mislead people.

Better yet, it's important in the middle of the swim when you are taxing your oxygen already.  For me, I pushing hard off the wall in the pool and practice relaxing and doing a couple extra kicks underwater (let's say 4 seconds, maybe 5)....it SORT OF simulates the lack of breathing that I get almost every time I round the buoy with 50 other dudes and get pushed underwater.

What the heck does this mean?  Is it similar to these high school kids that purposely choke out their friends to get high? 

I'm sorry...and no offense to you, but it sounds absolutely ridiculous and in no way a safe thing to recommend to an inexperienced swimmer...many who read this forum.  I am not sure I'm actually hearing your point at all.