Am I right to be angry..........(warning images are horrid) (Page 4)

Don't even get me started on that one!!!!! 

it's actually a good debate all on it's own, how much responsibility the school has in that area vs the demands placed on them to feed children cost effectively for one thing....but in that a parent shares the responsibility also, I know everything my son buys during lunch as our school tracks it on a computerized system, I can go online and see what his account has been used to buy, they also publish the meals well in advance so we can plan with our son what he has each day.  We can interact before and we can verify, and the school typically has a good selection of foods we are happy with, so in this one I think they do pretty well. 

I am no parent, but WOW that is awesome!!

I posted the pictures, but my issue is with both the stories and illustrations.  The stories are too dark, IMO, for a 3rd grade child. (notice I said 3rd grade, not 7 year old)

I see the age range 9-12 in a post above, I am not too sure that it is suitable for 9 year old, but my son is 7, and my other kids are younger, so I bow to those who have dealt with 9 year old children of their own.  from my work as a youth worker to this age group, I would still not think it appropriate, but each to their own....

We thought so when looking at schools

ETA:  we also see when he has bought chocolate ice cream and chocolate milk on days when that was not on the discussed options.....so he doesn't always find the system awesome :-)

I guess now that could tranlate to the library.  Is there an online catalog you and your son could look at together?  Maybe make a list of books he is interested and you approve of for his next library visit?  Now you know what he might choose so you can help him choose differently next time.

Or conversely clearly we should throw anything we want in there including "adult" novels since we cannot deem anything to be "inappropriate". I do recall saying something earlier about it being a partnership between parents and schools.  You will never please 100%or the parents 100% of the time.

This series is listed as being the most challenged series of books from 1990–1999^[2] and seventh most challenged from 2000-2009 ^[3] by the American Library Association for its violence. Also there remains the problem of it being classified as a children's book, due to the surreal and nightmarish illustrations contained within.

Top 10 from 1990-99

1. Scary Stories(series), by Alvin Schwartz
2. Daddy’s Roommate, by Michael Willhoite
3. I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, by Maya Angelou
4. The Chocolate War, by Robert Cormier
5. The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, by Mark Twain
6. Of Mice and Men, by John Steinbeck
7. Forever, by Judy Blume
8. Bridge to Terabithia, by Katherine Paterson
9. Heather Has Two Mommies, by Leslea Newman
10. The Catcher in the Rye, by J.D. Salinger

Top 10 from 2000-09

1. Harry Potter (series), by J.K. Rowling
2. Alice series, by Phyllis Reynolds Naylor
3. The Chocolate War, by Robert Cormier
4. And Tango Makes Three, by Justin Richardson/Peter Parnell
5. Of Mice and Men, by John Steinbeck
6. I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, by Maya Angelou
7. Scary Stories (series), by Alvin Schwartz
8. His Dark Materials (series), by Philip Pullman
9. ttyl; ttfn; l8r g8r (series), by Myracle, Lauren
10. The Perks of Being a Wallflower, by Stephen Chbosky

The series has been around since 1981, and remains quite popular.
In reading (scanning) the customer reviews on Amazon, I would say that they remain well-received by the publiic and by children as well. Lots of now-adults seem to be recalling them as a fond memory of childhood.
So, there is really no agreement about the appropriateness of these particular titles for any age. I would expect this situation to continue for many years to come.
That said, I expect that these books are in elementary school libraries becuase they are well-reviewed, and have been popular with kids for years. It is (as has been pointed out already) equally likely that a parent would challenge the school for restricting a child's reading by refusing to check these books out to a particular student.
As for the "keep a personal, computerized profile of every child in elementary school", am I the only one who sees some serious privacy concerns with this? Additionally, library software is simply not that sophisticated, especially the stand-alone versions lots of elementary schools use (I have worked in and around the library software industry for 15 years now) no-one is willing to pay the money for software that could do what has been proposed here, therefore, it is highly unlikely that any company is going to expend the resources to develop it.

Indeed. I guess to me all the books in an elementary school library in fact have already been deemed to be appropriate. The selection process has already taken place. Unfortunately, since any further selection processes (so far) seem to be unworkable, we are kind of reduced to all-or-nothing solutions (or accepting the status quo) ... however, the issue of what should be in an elementary school library at all is different than what the OP stated. Not that we ever discuss variations on a topic in a thread here in CoJ, never mind complete hijacks.

Fascinating. Thanks for the additional information.

Are these challenged lists for K-12 or elementary school libraries only?

So I got it wrong. In other words, it's not just an issue of ticking a box in a students' profiles and either a) allowing them to check books out from the school library, or b) not.

What you're proposing is that every single time students are taken to the library to select books for free reading, OR any time they are asked to use books for an assignment, that the teacher notify all the parents that students are about to select books (either for free reading or assignments), and parents should send some sort of notice back regarding whether or not, that particular time, their child will be selecting books from outside the school.

This is what I'm not understanding. What exactly is it that you're proposing?

So what was the point of this thread again?

Hah.  OK. context......parents who have raised children past 9 years of age and know their children at 9 may have a view that this material was suitable for their 9 year old child. I think the school library allowing a 7 year old, or 3rd grade child (8-9) to take it out is not OK.

ETA: and the thread is "Am I right to be angry"  it's a question.  there are obviously two sides, a good debate is a healthy reason for a thread.  An to be honest, it does me good to get other viewpoints that point out things I may not have considered and from people who are not emotionally engaged in my sons upbringing.  I appreciate the frankness of some responses and support of others.

I don't know, but I'm still looking for horrid images. There were some pretty cool black and white one in the OP, but still can't find horrid ones anywhere.

As a librarian I would like to say that we deal with this situation over and over again.  I am a public librarian, not a school librarian, but I do know that the school libraries have even stricter guidelines for what they purchase and what they can't.  These guidelines are used to purchase the materials that end up on the shelves.  Even if a book is donated to the library, it must still fall within the guidelines if it is going to be placed on the shelf.

A librarian cannot make the determination what can or can't be read by any individual child (or what can be checked out on their card.)  The books in the library are not set up by grade or age level as that varies wildly.  In any given class you can have children reading at 4 grades above their level, or below.  If you were to set up the library that way, then the child reading below grade level will be made to feel bad because they are choosing books from the 2nd grade level instead of the 4th grade level.  Also, I don't know about the schools by you, but our elementary schools have often 1000 - 1500 students in them.  One librarian cannot keep up with what each child in that school can or can't read.  One librarian can't talk to every student about the choice they made on what book to check out.  Often the class comes in and has about 10-15 minutes for 30 kids to choose a book and get it checked out, so the checkout process is really pretty quick in terms of contact between the student and the person who is doing the checking out (who actually may be a parent volunteer, and don't get me started on confidentiality issues when you have a volunteer making the decision on your child's reading material.)

In addition, the reading interests of the children vary.  And what parents are okay with their children reading varies.  What one parent might find inappropriate for their 3rd grader another may be okay with.

As a librarian, we always say the parent needs to make the decision regarding what their child reads and what they don't read.  We also encourage the parents to read the material first so that they can make an educated decision.  We encourage the parents to talk with their children about what has been read.

As a parent, when I had concern about what my child was reading, I spoke with the child.  Exactly what the original poster did.  Having an honest conversation with your child is going to do more for you than just BANNING materials and not talking about it.

On a personal note--I think I sort of said this before--I don't know if you're right to be ANGRY (I reserve anger for things like, I don't know, willed bodily harm), but I think you're right to be concerned. If I had a seven-year-old, I wouldn't want her to be watching The Lion King (honestly, I'm really not sure about many movies or TV), never mind reading a horror book with graphic pictures.

In a perfect world, I don't think allowing my (I cannot speak for anyone else's) seven-year-child to check out such books would be okay, either.

Although the following is not what your question really originally asked (which, frankly, makes it a rant, not a question), I just don't think there is a practical alternative.

After five pages of this thread, no one has still proposed a practical alternative.

kns57's post was illuminating and summed up nicely, with a professional and personal perspective, what others and I have been saying about there not being a practical alternative.

Very well said, I have to say some points here give me some ideas for my discussion with the school.  It also tempers the anger slightly to see things from the other perspective....thank you.

I still think there should have been some way to catch it, and I think it's obvious those books were not appropriate and he should not have been able to take them out, I look forward to talking with the school and seeing what their take on it is.

Either you misread what I wrote or mistyped what you meant to say. I did say talking to school officials WAS a solution, and my question was, when one does speak with them, what does one say?

In other words, you're still not proposing anything specific, you're just asking school officials if there is "some way." That isn't input. You're merely stating your preference without offering any details as to what your solution or your contribution will be.

What WOULD a "best solution" look like? Yes, you provided a solution, but again, we could all provide all kinds of solutions, but that doesn't explain why they would be workable and effective. I still don't think the solution you proposed is workable, or maybe I'm misunderstanding it, or maybe you're not providing enough detail. "Help your child select non-textbooks" is very vague. What does that mean, exactly? You can't be at the school library every single time your kid is taking books out, whether for assignment or free reading, so are we back to all-or-nothing (CAN use the library/CANNOT use the library)?

Or do we leave free reading out as a different issue, and just say every time a kid on the "ticked-box" list gets an assignment, YOU will help him pick out a book outside of the school's resources?

You've had two professionals state that there really isn't. What could that "some way" possibly be?

No, no, no. That's way too easy. We need to devise a complex, possibly expensive, system whereby the child can never even check out such books in the first place.

What system and what "such books" are, c'mon, that's just details. Really. It's the responsibility of the paid professionals at the school to worry about those. Not yours as the child's parent.

D@mn you and your common sense!