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2011-03-28 5:02 PM

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Elite
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Miami
Subject: for those that race with power

how do you generally race with power?  especially the shorter stuff (olympic / sprint)? 

do you just go all out and analyze later or do you still look at the numbers during the race and if you are say 5-10% above FTP you say whoa whoa easy there...

i am only curious about shorter events where blowing up can be minimal...racing im half and full distance is a different story i am well aware riding 15 watts above can lead to walking or not so fun times....

 



2011-03-28 5:13 PM
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2011-03-28 5:22 PM
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Veteran
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Subject: RE: for those that race with power

I've seen most people say they use it to avoid going out too hard in the beginning.  This is going to be my strategy for my first race with the powermeter.  Going to use it to make sure I'm not slacking after that.

The Training and Racing with Power book has a range of percentage of FTP for various distances.  Like anything, it's going to depend on the rider.

I'm anxious to see other strategies at the shorter distances.

 



Edited by mrpetey 2011-03-28 5:24 PM
2011-03-28 5:23 PM
in reply to: #3418641

Master
2356
20001001001002525
Westlake Village , Ca.
Subject: RE: for those that race with power

I always have a power target. As the race progresses though, I have more and more flexibility. One the front half, I stick to the plan...for short course stuff, I can deviate slightly on the back half...but it is small...like 5 watts average. In long course racing you have more flexibility over the final third of the race.  Being a hero in the first 2/3 typically means being a zero in the final 10k of the run.

I think this is really important because blowing up usually happens early...when you feel really good and make a decision too early to let her rip. Keeping the target through the first half does wonders for proper pacing throughout the race.

2011-03-28 5:28 PM
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2011-03-28 5:34 PM
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Champion
7595
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Columbia, South Carolina
Subject: RE: for those that race with power
I'm early in my 'racing with power career'.  For sprint and Oly I plan to use (in the case of sprint, have already used) it more as a motivator than as a reality check.  (I.e., look down, see a 'low' number and use that to get myself pushing hard again.)  For HIM (in a month) I plan to use it more to keep my early enthusiasm in check.


2011-03-28 5:39 PM
in reply to: #3418681

Master
5557
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, California
Subject: RE: for those that race with power

Shorter distance, I glance at the start to make sure I'm roughly at my FTP and then about 3/4 through to make sure I'm not fading.

HIM / IM you probably want to work out average target watts ahead of time as a percentage of your FTP and stick to it.

2011-03-28 6:03 PM
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2011-03-28 6:07 PM
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Champion
19812
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MA
Subject: RE: for those that race with power

Read books (Allen/Coggan and Skiba) and the goals for sprint and Olys IFs (% of FTP) I can't hit. Doing sprint at 100% of FTP then running 5K probably means your FTP is off or you are stronger runner than I am which is easy as I'm not good runner. From doing it over time I know my body and what I can do on the bike and still run well so that is what I work with. Part of the fun of training and racing with power is to figure out what works for you.

Oly's I have target watts to hit and try to dial it in and keep it there. I try to pick up the effort so second half of an Oly my RPE is higher than first half.

Sprints I go hard and look at my power numbers to make sure I'm not slacking.

I've been racing with power for 5 years. When I started my coach had me tape over my power numbers and looked at them after the race and I did that for 4-5 races all sprints but 1 oly.

Learning to pace races is takes time as in general folks tend to go out to hard and fade. I did a series of TTs every 2 weeks one summer and worked hard on learning to keep power level or go up slightly.

2011-03-28 6:11 PM
in reply to: #3418720

Master
5557
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, California
Subject: RE: for those that race with power
Fred Doucette - 2011-03-28 4:03 PM
spudone

HIM / IM you probably want to work out average target watts ahead of time as a percentage of your FTP and stick to it.

For IM the key issues are:

1. VI. Trying to keep it as close to 1.0 as possible.
2. IF. Trying to stay at or below the IF you set for an IM.
3. Watts cap on the hills.

The VF can be tough to keep at 1.0 on a hilly course, but the keys are not to go up too hard and to pedal harder on the downhills and maintain on the flats.

IF is the % of FTP. For a fast IMer then close to 75%. Slower rider? Might be below 70%.

Watts cap on the hills is key especially early in the race. Think IMLP and the first few miles of climbs when you feel great but are burning a lot of energy.

x2... better explanation than mine.  One more thing about the watts cap, if your cadence is dropping a lot to stay below the cap, then consider a cassette swap.

Training and Racing With a Power Meter has a small triathlon section.  But in there is a good, succinct explanation on how to calculate power % based on a total TSS target.

2011-03-28 6:14 PM
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2011-03-28 6:19 PM
in reply to: #3418641

Subject: RE: for those that race with power

I've only raced 3 times with power.  But from sprint to Oly, I constantly monitor my power.  I am flexible to adjust my power goals, but once I find a wattage I want to ride at...I am constantly checking to make sure I'm staying as close to it as possible.

Same goes with my intervals and long rides where I have power goals.

Although I won't be racing with my power meter for my upcoming HIM in June...so I'll be turning off the power display on my computer on some long rides to see how my RPE and HR correlate to my power numbers after downloading my ride file.

2011-03-28 7:11 PM
in reply to: #3418641

Master
1420
1000100100100100
Reston, VA
Subject: RE: for those that race with power
I use it as a check and look at it a few times in a sprint or Oly, usually in the beginning of the race to make sure I am not going out to hard. Generally I don't want to see anything under 250 or over 400 (ftp by mid-season last year was around 325). I don't race a sprint or Oly strictly by my power numbers (I pay much more attention at HIM or IM) but I do use it as a tool to keep myself in check, more so in the beginning of the race. 20 minutes in I seem to be more settled and don't need to check as much.
2011-03-28 8:22 PM
in reply to: #3418641

Elite
3315
20001000100100100
Miami
Subject: RE: for those that race with power
great stuff.  thanks for some of the insight, i liked the idea about not going out too hard. 
2011-03-29 8:02 AM
in reply to: #3418641

Extreme Veteran
448
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Atlanta
Subject: RE: for those that race with power
trix - 2011-03-28 6:02 PM

how do you generally race with power?  especially the shorter stuff (olympic / sprint)? 

do you just go all out and analyze later or do you still look at the numbers during the race and if you are say 5-10% above FTP you say whoa whoa easy there...

i am only curious about shorter events where blowing up can be minimal...racing im half and full distance is a different story i am well aware riding 15 watts above can lead to walking or not so fun times....



I'll always race with power... helps me from going out too hard and also from zoning out and going too easy for a while.

Sprints: I'll go at or slightly above FTP. I have a "window" I want to keep it in, both for uphills and downhills so my VI is low and I can lower the amount of "spikes" I have.

Oly's: I'll stay around 90-95% because I'm not that strong of a cyclist so I'm out there for 1:15 or so. Allows me to push it but still have a good run off the bike. Once again I have a window of watts, ones for if I'm climbing and others for when I'm downhill so it'll average out to around that 90-95% range.

Hope that helps! Holler if you have any more questions.

Shanks
2011-03-29 8:12 AM
in reply to: #3418641

Elite
3515
20001000500
Romeoville, Il
Subject: RE: for those that race with power
great thread!!!

I'm getting a Powertap in the next couple weeks with my new wheels. This will be very useful since this will be the first year I race with power and first year I'll be training with power outside. I did computrainer classes for the last 2 winters. Training with power, over the winter, was incredibly useful. I can't wait to continue that over the summer. I actually think I slack off over the summer and lose some power during the season without it!

thank you!!


2011-03-29 8:20 AM
in reply to: #3418641

Champion
9407
500020002000100100100100
Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: for those that race with power
Sprint - I aim for 100%FTP; last sprint was 97%.

Oly - I aim for 95% of FTP; last oly was 92%.

Shane
2011-03-29 9:25 AM
in reply to: #3418641

Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: for those that race with power
I don't look at it much in sprints or olys.  When I do, it's usually as a prod for myself to work harder.  Although I will still manage my efforts a bit on some hills (depends on length of hill and race), but I can do that fairly well at this stage without looking at the PM anyway.
2011-03-29 9:30 AM
in reply to: #3418641

Veteran
297
100100252525
horseheads
Subject: RE: for those that race with power

train using the number you gathered when racing by feel..........

in other words.  look later, race NOW.

2011-03-29 9:40 AM
in reply to: #3419361

over a barrier
Subject: RE: for those that race with power
gsmacleod - 2011-03-29 8:20 AM

Sprint - I aim for 100%FTP; last sprint was 97%.

Oly - I aim for 95% of FTP; last oly was 92%.

Shane


+1 I aim for similar targets above, but also fall a little short do to turns, downhills etc
2011-03-29 10:33 AM
in reply to: #3418641

Pro
3804
20001000500100100100
Seacoast, NH!
Subject: RE: for those that race with power

Good stuff....generally new to power myself.  I've only been training with it for about 4 months now.  I'm still at the point where I am relating RPE to my power output on the trainer.  I'm sure that will change once all the snow melts and I can get outside and establish a new wattage for my RPE....which will hopefully continue to change...thus making my point or lack there of...you get the idea.

So say my race is June 1st, when do you guys do your test to establish your FTP?  Within a month/two months??



2011-03-29 10:43 AM
in reply to: #3418641

Elite
3779
20001000500100100252525
Ontario
Subject: RE: for those that race with power

I'd use it for any distance of race.  I see no reason not to use one at the Sprint level, considering you're riding 30km on average, so for most people they are going to be in the saddle for 50-60minutes.  It will always let me know whether I'm pushing too hard or not hard enough - caveat, you need to have a realistic target wattage in advance.

100% FTP for a Sprint - that would be nice, but I don't think I can run hard after a full effort on the bike.  I need to leave something for the run.

2011-03-29 10:48 AM
in reply to: #3419695

Elite
3315
20001000100100100
Miami
Subject: RE: for those that race with power
GoFaster - 2011-03-29 10:43 AM

I'd use it for any distance of race.  I see no reason not to use one at the Sprint level, considering you're riding 30km on average, so for most people they are going to be in the saddle for 50-60minutes.  It will always let me know whether I'm pushing too hard or not hard enough - caveat, you need to have a realistic target wattage in advance.

100% FTP for a Sprint - that would be nice, but I don't think I can run hard after a full effort on the bike.  I need to leave something for the run.

you would be surprised...for a sprint where a run is short...now i am not sure i could ride 100% at olympic distance and then run well for 10k...i think around mile 4 my pace would diminish greatly.

2011-03-29 10:59 AM
in reply to: #3419674

Elite
3315
20001000100100100
Miami
Subject: RE: for those that race with power
jgerbodegrant - 2011-03-29 10:33 AM

Good stuff....generally new to power myself.  I've only been training with it for about 4 months now.  I'm still at the point where I am relating RPE to my power output on the trainer.  I'm sure that will change once all the snow melts and I can get outside and establish a new wattage for my RPE....which will hopefully continue to change...thus making my point or lack there of...you get the idea.

So say my race is June 1st, when do you guys do your test to establish your FTP?  Within a month/two months??

i tested after 2 weeks of riding with a pt...and tested every 8-10 weeks after...most people are probably similar and some test more often.

4 months is a very long time to ride without a test...why relating RPE and power meter.  power is power...don't worry about anything else...4 months without having a power meter and no test is just wasting the time in my book.  you could have ridden at the correct levels and probably improve substantially.

 

2011-03-29 11:08 AM
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