General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Change in position advice...going more aero (video) Rss Feed  
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2011-04-05 7:56 PM

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Subject: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)

So I have my TT bike set up for long course tri's right now.  I am sticking to short course stuff this year with my longest race being olympic distance.  I made this awesome video for your viewing pleasure.  

From the video you can obviously see that I could go more aero.  I was fit by fitwerx to this position...no I didn't call them yet.  Is it smarter to take out one spacer at a time and get used to it....or just drop to more aero, adjust as required and go short distances/time, building up to being comfortable at the distance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpBVN7Eceas

 

ETA:  no this wasn't my first time using clipless pedals and yes, I only wear that outfit at home in the attic.



Edited by jgerbodegrant 2011-04-05 7:57 PM


2011-04-05 8:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)

Do you also use the wheels with the hearts when you wear the outfit? 

 

Sorry had to ask. Nice bike btw.

2011-04-05 8:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)
DAMNIT!  Those were a valentine's gift to my GF.  
2011-04-05 8:35 PM
in reply to: #3431538

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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)
Sure pal whatever you say!Tongue out
2011-04-05 8:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)

I'm not an expert...

Your position looks pretty solid, but yes, you can go lower in front.  Whether you choose to make a radical change right away or gradually work up to it seems to me to depend on you.  If you've got a long time (maybe > 6 weeks) to any goal race, I'd be inclined to try doing it gradually.  If your goal race is close (< 6 weeks) I'd try a few rides with the more radical change, but abandon if things go bad and revert to gradual change.

2011-04-05 8:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)

The position looks pretty good. You are fairly low already.  I am not sure you are sitting on that seat as John Cobb intended.  You seem to be sitting way back on it with your pelvis rotated backwards. It is comfy to sit on your sitbones on the wide part of the seat, but if you are trying to squeeze all the speed you can out of your position, especially for short course racing, I would try to come forward and rotate the pelvis forward. You will likely need to raise your seat if you do this.

The cockpit looks ever so slightly too long, but that would remedy itself by taking the above recommendation.

As far as how fast to make big changes to position or drop, all at once is probably best. Rip that band aid off, spend a few weeks adapting, and you will be good to go. Otherwise you keep bumping yourself down .5cm at a time and you remain in a constant state of adapting to a new position for months.

If you have ridden that position long course mileage, I am not so sure you would need to drastically reduce your riding if you go with another 2-5 cm of drop.  Just watch the knee and hip angles especially, and your power should come back pretty fast, if it even drops at all.  There will be more weight on your arms which should not be a huge issue and your neck may be sore, which might be the biggest issue.



2011-04-05 8:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)
The video doesn't show you from the front, which is the angle the wind sees you at. Instead of lower you may consider narrower. TJ Tollakson and Floyd Landis are easily referenced examples of a narrow position.

Keep in mind that net time savings will be smaller on a shorter course, so a sacrifice in power for aero may may not be worth it.

let us know how it works!
2011-04-05 9:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)

Thanks all.

Dave...I know what you mean.  I think if I slide forward on the saddle, it will correct the tiny bit of stretch I have.  I honestly just hopped on the tri bike for the second time this year, so I was definitely not comfy on the saddle yet...  I moved up to a vflow plus, per direction from John Cobb and I'm positive you are correct.

2011-04-05 9:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)

Broompatrol - 2011-04-05 9:50 PM The video doesn't show you from the front, which is the angle the wind sees you at. Instead of lower you may consider narrower. TJ Tollakson and Floyd Landis are easily referenced examples of a narrow position.

Keep in mind that net time savings will be smaller on a shorter course, so a sacrifice in power for aero may may not be worth it.

let us know how it works!

Ah yes...good point.  My elbows are inside my hips...but the shoulder injury has limited how tight I can get for long course.  I will look into that.

2011-04-05 9:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)
Timberman jersey? Nice.
2011-04-05 10:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)

enduropro - 2011-04-05 10:48 PM Timberman jersey? Nice.

I feel like I earned it.



2011-04-06 8:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)
jgerbodegrant - 2011-04-05 11:29 PM

enduropro - 2011-04-05 10:48 PM Timberman jersey? Nice.

I feel like I earned it.

bonktown Castelli bibs?  how do you like them for riding in aero?

 

PS. what's up with the Red Sox...ugh...this is painful...

ETA: I'm assuming you're a sox fan based on where you live.



Edited by jsiegs 2011-04-06 8:09 AM
2011-04-06 8:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)

Front end height doesn't look too bad at all. I noticed something else...

Your shoulder angle looks a little bit open to me, and I noticed that one of the first things you did was to press yourself back on the saddle, almost like you have a tendency to creep forward when you ride, which may be an attempt to close that up. You mentioned a shoulder injury... Might be playing into it as well.

Remember, a road position is built back-to-front, a tri position is built front-to-back.

2011-04-06 1:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)
jsiegs - 2011-04-06 9:08 AM
jgerbodegrant - 2011-04-05 11:29 PM

enduropro - 2011-04-05 10:48 PM Timberman jersey? Nice.

I feel like I earned it.

bonktown Castelli bibs?  how do you like them for riding in aero?

 

PS. what's up with the Red Sox...ugh...this is painful...

ETA: I'm assuming you're a sox fan based on where you live.

Yup...bibs are good for aero.  They are low cut in the front and have little padding.

Don't get me started on the Red Sox.  It's like the whole team has early season Ortiz flu.

2011-04-06 2:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)
briderdt - 2011-04-06 9:42 AM

Front end height doesn't look too bad at all. I noticed something else...

Your shoulder angle looks a little bit open to me, and I noticed that one of the first things you did was to press yourself back on the saddle, almost like you have a tendency to creep forward when you ride, which may be an attempt to close that up. You mentioned a shoulder injury... Might be playing into it as well.

Remember, a road position is built back-to-front, a tri position is built front-to-back.

Yeah...just has to do with time in the saddle this year.  I've only been on my road bike so far, so staying up front on the saddle is painful right now.  I am sure if I scoot forward where I am supposed to be, that shoulder angle will be perfect.

2011-04-06 3:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)

You don't have all that much spacer, just drop it all the way down.

When you do that, I'd also like to see the saddle moved a bit more forward.  But I think that it looks like it already is....If so, your power will probably take a hit.  May be something you adapt to in a few weeks, but ideally you would get the saddle forward another 1-1.5cm when you drop the bars.  That will keep the same hip angle you are used to.  That will also move you a touch closer to the bars which is looks like you need.

The big question is can you eek out just a little more movement forward with that saddle.

 



2011-04-07 4:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)

If you freeze the image with your leg in extension you will see you have a pretty good fit.  Just over 90degrees elbow angle, 90 degrees shoulder to torso and thigh to torso.  Doesn't look like you can drop the stem much but I would remove any spacer and move to the nose of the saddle.  That ought to make you more aggressive but also allow more support by putting your elbow directly beneath your shoulder.

 

You will not lose power.  You actually may gain some power as I did when I had a RETUL fit and made these changes.  You will also run better off the bike!  

 

Cervelo is tough to fit on some people, long and low

2011-04-07 6:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Change in position advice...going more aero (video)
JeffY - 2011-04-06 3:34 PM

You don't have all that much spacer, just drop it all the way down.

When you do that, I'd also like to see the saddle moved a bit more forward.  But I think that it looks like it already is....If so, your power will probably take a hit.  May be something you adapt to in a few weeks, but ideally you would get the saddle forward another 1-1.5cm when you drop the bars.  That will keep the same hip angle you are used to.  That will also move you a touch closer to the bars which is looks like you need.

The big question is can you eek out just a little more movement forward with that saddle.

 

 

I'm not sure whether the actual saddle can move or not is an issue. He could leave it where it is and sit many inches further forward on it witohut issue.

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