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The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.
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Triathlon coaching in the U.S. needs more formal educational requirements.
Triathlon coaching has enough regulation now through USAT.
I'm a coach.
Coaches in the U.S. have dubious qualifications to coach athletes.
The "open-ness" of the coaching system in the U.S. is good.
Most traithlon coaches are credible and valid as coaches.
Most triathlon coaches in the US have questionable credibility as coaches.
US coaching has no formal curriculae, and therefore no credibility.
The lack of improvement in average U.S. AG'ers proves our system is broken.
The success of U.S. AG'ers proves our system works.
It's not that hard to be a coach- what's the big deal?
Any person who dispenses advice for compensation should be accredited.
This is a multiple choice poll.

2011-04-06 3:08 PM
in reply to: #3432616

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.

Buyer beware for coaching is great, but how do folks find out who is a good or bad coach? Especially when they new to the sport and don't really have friends or contacts that are knowledgeable.The more you know easier it is to pick a coach as you can ask informed questions and determine if their answers make sense and line up with what you know.

The trend seems to be, I've been a triathlete few years and I'm fast, so I'll go to USAT cert become a coach to off set my tri habit and make some money. Not all the new coaches are fast, but if they are and if they are FOP more folks want to be like them so they hire them as a coach. They may just be gifted and have no substantial knowledge of training and don't really coach folks but make plans for folks sometimes good sometimes not. Some type of mentoring system would be a great start for USAT.

Seems USAT coaching certification is a money maker both for those who teach and USAT. It helps folks who want to be coaches have some 'credentials' and insurance to help them attract athletes.  As I understand it coaches need credits to stay certified which means money making opportunity for other coaches to put on seminars and make money to get those credits. Often those teaching are just other USAT coaches...some have other credential and education but the circle seems sort of small.

One of the first coaches I considered using was a women. I thought a women would be a good match for me. Turns out she coached a bunch of women in my tri team and they all got the same exact plan. Is that coaching? No

What I don't get is why folks hire coaches that haven't coached others before and have no proven history? They have no experience and folks will pay $150+/month for that. If a new coach wanted to help some folks for free or very modest fee and explained it up front they were learning and would like to help you at a modest cost, I can see that. Or if you work with an established coach who brings in new coaches and allows them with the clients permission to watch or help with certain clients.

I've been coached since 2005 and have had 3 different coaches over the years.

 

 



2011-04-06 3:11 PM
in reply to: #3432812

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.

Birkierunner - 2011-04-06 3:13 PM Not sure how relevant my comment is, but I took the USAT Level 1 course last fall.  There were a few attendees who already had established coaching businesses and were there to get certified.  I found the lack of knowledge of a couple of them to be fairly embarassing.  It truly is buyer beware.

Absolutely it is. And I agree that there are a number of uninformed, misguided coaches.  I see it nearly everyday. 

[to the bigger point]   But I guess I don't see this industry any different than others.  If I take my car to the mechanic, do I need to see his mechanic certification?  Do I need to research his certification requirements to judge their merits? Or is it truly buyer beware?  I know I chose my coach much like my mechanic...word of mouth and recommendations.  Not some fancy website or auto shop. 

However, there is a HUGE part of the discussion missing--the responsibility of the athlete.  Many people thinking coaching is a one-way street.  A coach delivers the plan to the athlete.  But if the athlete isn't doing his/her job then how can the coach do theirs? It is kinda like submitting half your tax documents to a CPA and expecting them to do your taxes.  So defining a 'bad' coach isn't as easy as results, bad experiences, etc.  Sometimes the onus falls on the athlete.  So an athlete's perception of a coach could be totally off-based.  If we have a coaching review, should we have an athlete review too? 

[to Tom]

I am curious if you also think the triathlon retail side of the business might need some qualifying credential--after all, you are a broker of specific knowledge.  You are helping people spend 100s to 1000s of dollars everyday.  You are recommending brand X over brand Y, based on what?  What the company rep told you?  Some limited experience with the products you carry? If I was to call Trisports and talk to you about a product you don't carry, might you be less informed about it?  Is this any different than the way a coach goes about things in the industry? 

2011-04-06 3:27 PM
in reply to: #3432981

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.
KathyG - 2011-04-06 3:08 PM

Buyer beware for coaching is great, but how do folks find out who is a good or bad coach?


Kathy, I just want to say I'm not implying "tough luck, find a coach and buyer beware"...I totally agree with you.  I was just commenting on what the current status of things seem to be...no one likes that situation

2011-04-06 3:28 PM
in reply to: #3432616

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.
Ther crisis is athletes not doing thorough background checks before turning over their training to a stranger for $200/month.
2011-04-06 3:34 PM
in reply to: #3432616

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.

My thoughts: Crisis? That seems to be a pretty dramatic word to put on the subject.

As one who has been self-coached through his entire tri career, I think the only real "crisis" is that people would rather fork over a bunch of money to some one rather than explore the subject and experiment with themself.

But... I've seen people with absolutely no credibility on paper who are GREAT coaches, and people with all the certs and degrees to back them up who absolutely suck.

And if some one wants the basics, just come here and spend some time. Beyond that, we're each an experiment of one.

2011-04-06 3:49 PM
in reply to: #3432616

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.
Tom. I feel this tri coaching certification program is majorly flawed and too many underqualified people call themselves coaches. Just because you completed an ironman distance and you took a weekend seminar you should not necessarily be a coach. To give you an example I personally have all the educational requirements to be a level3 coach but would I feel qualified to COACH people after taking just 1 or 2 coaching seminars? No and I have pretty advanced degrees in exercise physiology /sports med/ certain athletic trainer/ and chiropractor but I would not feel ok charging people to coach them..... Yes I feel very comfortable giving advise on a lot of related topics nutrition physiology and injuries but not taking someone from the couch and make them an ironman/woman


2011-04-06 3:51 PM
in reply to: #3432826

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.
Fred Doucette - 2011-04-06 3:18 PM

cbrave -  Thanks guys for your thoughtful answers. So I guess it really comes down that a consumer really doesn't have recourse for a bad coach other than spending money elsewhere and spreading the word. Maybe BT should consider a "review" for coaches where people can share the good and bad for coaches.

I think bad word of mouth is the best answer. However, there is a danger even in that. If BT were to have a "review" for coaches (I don't think they will) it could result in liability against the site if a certain coach was pegged as a "bad coach". That coach could sue arguing that her/his ability to make an income was tarnished inappropriately.

Also, (as this happens in the business, medical, legal world etc), bad reviews are sometimes from competitors looking to steal business, so buyer beware even on the reviews.

My advice would be to hire a coach that has references and that has worked with people YOU trust.

Reviews can be tough, we all know people will often say things on an internet forum that they would never say in real life.  That being, I don't think on-line reviews would subject the poster to liability except in especially egregious situations.

Its kind of funny, my massage therapist and my manicurist are both required to be licensed by the state but my coach isn't.  The rational (other than licensing fees paid to the state) for this is that without proper training and knoweldge they could potential hurt me, the customer.  It seems interesting to me that a massage therapist, manicurist (or even a hair dressor) needs a license but a coach does not.  I think that my coach has a greater potential to hurt me than any other those other professions. 

 

2011-04-06 3:52 PM
in reply to: #3433036

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.
Notice that, from the get-go, the word "crisis" was in quotes.
2011-04-06 3:56 PM
in reply to: #3432616

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.

My mind immediately went to the sport of running.  How many running coaches are there?  Most of them reside in the high school and college running programs.  There are no uniform requirements or accredidation process.  No one complains of a 'crisis' in running coaches.

They are not all qualified, but everyone understands that being a high school cross country coach may mean nothing by itself.  No big deal.

 

2011-04-06 4:08 PM
in reply to: #3432981

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.

"Buyer beware for coaching is great, but how do folks find out who is a good or bad coach?"

KathyG kind of nailed it here, and expands on that in the rest of her post.

She also points out the developmental process of a "coach" in our sport.

Heck, personally, I wouldn't mind making some money off coaching. I'm qualified, right? I started doing Ironman in 1986 (Hawaii), have done 6, I supported Olympic triathletes (Sheila Toarmina) at two Olympic trials, did bike fits on Tour de France riders, set up pedal systems for world champions, I've done support from team cars, I've lived at the Olympic training center, worked in the industry for nearly 30 years, done over 250 triathlons, raced on all seven continents, written for nearly every magazine, have over 30,000 posts on forums... blah blah, yak yak...

I'm a qualified coach- right? No.

I don't pretend to know the technicalities of evaluating an athlete and their goals, designing a program congruent with their goals and physiology, testing to verify they are on course, counselling them for motivation and support.

I'm not a trained coach. Neitehr are most people who call themselves that.

2011-04-06 4:09 PM
in reply to: #3432616

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.
Tom,

I agree that there is definitely an issue with some triathlon coaches (it seems from my point of view it may be many but I'm willing to allow for the fact that my view may be skewed) but I would hesitate to call it a crisis. I do think that the process to becoming a coach needs to take longer than a weekend and further believe that the prospective coach should have hands on experience working with athletes and should also work with a mentor coach for a certain period of time.

I would hesitate to employ a system that only allows those with Master's to call themselves coaches as I have had the opportunity to work with many with Master's degrees over the years and while most have great knowledge and passion for their area of expertise, that does not necessarily make one a good candidate to be a coach. Further, I have worked with some exceptional coaches who have little if any formal education but had taken the time to educate themselves about their sport.

I also think that triathlon is in a somewhat unique position as many people who coach various sports do so to support their children or because they have a passion for the sport. In both cases, these coaches tend to move through a variety of levels with the sport (whether in a coaching or support role) either because their children have moved up to the next level or because they want to coach older/more competitive athletes. On the other hand, triathlon, due to the inverted pyramid of participation, has very few children involved which means there isn't a large need for youth and junior coaches and due to this, there doesn't seem to be much progression of coaches from AG to youth, junior, U23 and elite coaching.

Shane


2011-04-06 5:06 PM
in reply to: #3433072

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2011-04-06 5:08 PM
in reply to: #3433064

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.

FELTGood - 2011-04-06 3:49 PM Tom. I feel this tri coaching certification program is majorly flawed and too many underqualified people call themselves coaches. Just because you completed an ironman distance and you took a weekend seminar you should not necessarily be a coach. To give you an example I personally have all the educational requirements to be a level3 coach but would I feel qualified to COACH people after taking just 1 or 2 coaching seminars? No and I have pretty advanced degrees in exercise physiology /sports med/ certain athletic trainer/ and chiropractor but I would not feel ok charging people to coach them..... Yes I feel very comfortable giving advise on a lot of related topics nutrition physiology and injuries but not taking someone from the couch and make them an ironman/woman

While I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, I think you're lacking understanding of what it really takes to be a level 3 coach.  I think you'll find that Level 2 and 3 coaches have to do a bit more than have a degree.  Level 1's are a dime-a-dozen.  I'd put a bit more trust in a level 2 and a ton in a level 3. I'll highlight some of the more important pieces.

Level II

 

Prior to certification, candidate must complete and/or submit the following:

  • Level II Clinic
  • Oral Presentations
  • Written Examination
  • CPR or AED Certification
  • Signed USOC Coaching Ethics Code
  • Online Background Check
  • Current USAT Membership
  • Athlete Letter of Recommendation
  • Mentor Coach Letter of Recommendation
  • Minimum Two Years of Level I Certification
  • ATP of Current Athlete
  • One of the Following:
      1. BA or BS degree in sport science or related field (preferred)
    OR
      2. Certification with relevance to triathlon (ACSM, USAC Level I or II, ASCA, USATF, NSCA or NASM)
  • The applicant must have annual service to USA Triathlon or educational contributions to the sport of triathlon (service during a USA Triathlon camp or clinic, contributions to the USA Triathlon coaching certification program or various related USAT programs).
  • The applicant must explain the status of an athlete, state two to three objectives for that athlete, explain what you did as a coach to address those objectives, and explain the results that were accomplished with that athlete.
  • Selected candidates complete a phone interview as part of the application process.

Level III

 

Prior to applying for the Level III clinic, candidates must complete and/or submit the following:

  • Level III Clinic
  • Current USAT Membership
  • Written Examination
  • Oral Presentation
  • Signed USOC Coaching Ethics Code
  • Current CPR/AED Certification
  • Online Background Check
  • Athlete Letter of Recommendation
  • Mentor Coach Letter of Recommendation
  • Current Level II Coach (in good standing for at least 12 months prior to the Level III clinic)
  • The applicant must have completed the USAT Elite Mentorship Program between January 1, 2007 and the current application deadline.
  • The applicant must have documentation that he or she has been the primary coach of an athlete at the highest level of competition within the athlete’s division based on the following criteria:
      - Elite National Team
      - Project 2012, 2016 or 2020 Team
      - Top 15 finish at U23 World Championships
      - Top 15 finish at Junior World Championships.
      - Ranked in the top 75 of the ITU rankings by the end of the previous year.
  •   - USA Paratriathlon National Team
      -Coaching oneself does not qualify.
  • The applicant must demonstrate that he or she developed the athlete to the above mentioned level.
  • The applicant must demonstrate knowledge of progression by stating two to three objectives for an elite athlete, explaining what was done as a coach to address those objectives and the results that were accomplished with that athlete.
  • The applicant must submit an ATP based on a standard provided form of one elite level athlete that he or she directly coaches as part of the application process within seven days upon acceptance into the clinic. This is reviewed by USAT Sport Development staff within two weeks and sent back to the applicant with suggestions.
  • The applicant must hold at least one additional current certification from the following sport organizations: USA Cycling Level I or Level II, USA Swimming/American Swimming Coaches Association, USA Track and Field, American College of Sports Medicine, National Strength and Conditioning Association, or National Academy of Sports Medicine.
  • Selected candidates complete a phone interview as part of the application process. 

A USAT Level III Coach understands and applies the following concepts while working with athletes:  

  • Advanced periodization and planning including program implementation, progression, lab and field testing and recovery methods.
  • Swim stroke analysis, run gait analysis, bike fit and analysis
  • Functional strength training and dynamic warmup
  • Advanced nutritional and mental skills strategies
  • ITU qualifications and rules
  • Race strategies

 

2011-04-06 5:12 PM
in reply to: #3432616

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.
Tom Demerly. - 2011-04-06 5:08 PM

"Buyer beware for coaching is great, but how do folks find out who is a good or bad coach?"

KathyG kind of nailed it here, and expands on that in the rest of her post.

Everything in life is buyer beware, how do people find out about anything and whether it's good or bad. Ask lots of questions, ask for references, ask about experience, ask about credentials, read reviews online, go to forums, and on and on.

If you want something to remodel your kitchen, how do you know what contractors are good? If you want a financial planner, how do you know who is good and who is not? If you want a mechanic to fix your car, how do you know who is good and who is not? Sure, the credential hanging on the wall may be part of the equation but, at least in my experience, less so than any number of other factors.

Such is life.

2011-04-06 6:38 PM
in reply to: #3433191

Elite
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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.

Well, there are points along a continuum of this.

In other words, in Somalia, if you need a dentist, you go to a guy. Just some guy. He's got tools and has pulled teeth before.

In the U.S. when you go to the dentist he has a formal course of education and accredation before practice and must maintain specific standards to continue to call himself a "dentist" in the U.S.

The Somali could not practice dentistry (legally) here.

The difference is tangible and documentable.

 

2011-04-06 6:44 PM
in reply to: #3433184

Elite
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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.

The qualifications for level III are impressive. I'll argue not specifically Master's level, but they are an indicatin of competence.

That's not the issue however. The issue is voluntary compliance.

There is nothing preventing another person to simply beginning to coach, and even calling their coaching service "Level IV Tri Coaching", suggesting some higher level of accredation.

A level III coach has nothing to "protect" their craft, their investment in time, education and effort since anyone can be a coach.



2011-04-06 8:13 PM
in reply to: #3433184

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.
gonwalkabout03 - 2011-04-06 6:08 PM

FELTGood - 2011-04-06 3:49 PM Tom. I feel this tri coaching certification program is majorly flawed and too many underqualified people call themselves coaches. Just because you completed an ironman distance and you took a weekend seminar you should not necessarily be a coach. To give you an example I personally have all the educational requirements to be a level3 coach but would I feel qualified to COACH people after taking just 1 or 2 coaching seminars? No and I have pretty advanced degrees in exercise physiology /sports med/ certain athletic trainer/ and chiropractor but I would not feel ok charging people to coach them..... Yes I feel very comfortable giving advise on a lot of related topics nutrition physiology and injuries but not taking someone from the couch and make them an ironman/woman

While I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, I think you're lacking understanding of what it really takes to be a level 3 coach.  I think you'll find that Level 2 and 3 coaches have to do a bit more than have a degree.  Level 1's are a dime-a-dozen.  I'd put a bit more trust in a level 2 and a ton in a level 3. I'll highlight some of the more important pieces.

Level II

 

Prior to certification, candidate must complete and/or submit the following:

  • Level II Clinic
  • Oral Presentations
  • Written Examination
  • CPR or AED Certification
  • Signed USOC Coaching Ethics Code
  • Online Background Check
  • Current USAT Membership
  • Athlete Letter of Recommendation
  • Mentor Coach Letter of Recommendation
  • Minimum Two Years of Level I Certification
  • ATP of Current Athlete
  • One of the Following:
      1. BA or BS degree in sport science or related field (preferred)
    OR
      2. Certification with relevance to triathlon (ACSM, USAC Level I or II, ASCA, USATF, NSCA or NASM)
  • The applicant must have annual service to USA Triathlon or educational contributions to the sport of triathlon (service during a USA Triathlon camp or clinic, contributions to the USA Triathlon coaching certification program or various related USAT programs).
  • The applicant must explain the status of an athlete, state two to three objectives for that athlete, explain what you did as a coach to address those objectives, and explain the results that were accomplished with that athlete.
  • Selected candidates complete a phone interview as part of the application process.

Level III

 

Prior to applying for the Level III clinic, candidates must complete and/or submit the following:

  • Level III Clinic
  • Current USAT Membership
  • Written Examination
  • Oral Presentation
  • Signed USOC Coaching Ethics Code
  • Current CPR/AED Certification
  • Online Background Check
  • Athlete Letter of Recommendation
  • Mentor Coach Letter of Recommendation
  • Current Level II Coach (in good standing for at least 12 months prior to the Level III clinic)
  • The applicant must have completed the USAT Elite Mentorship Program between January 1, 2007 and the current application deadline.
  • The applicant must have documentation that he or she has been the primary coach of an athlete at the highest level of competition within the athlete’s division based on the following criteria:
      - Elite National Team
      - Project 2012, 2016 or 2020 Team
      - Top 15 finish at U23 World Championships
      - Top 15 finish at Junior World Championships.
      - Ranked in the top 75 of the ITU rankings by the end of the previous year.
  •   - USA Paratriathlon National Team
      -Coaching oneself does not qualify.
  • The applicant must demonstrate that he or she developed the athlete to the above mentioned level.
  • The applicant must demonstrate knowledge of progression by stating two to three objectives for an elite athlete, explaining what was done as a coach to address those objectives and the results that were accomplished with that athlete.
  • The applicant must submit an ATP based on a standard provided form of one elite level athlete that he or she directly coaches as part of the application process within seven days upon acceptance into the clinic. This is reviewed by USAT Sport Development staff within two weeks and sent back to the applicant with suggestions.
  • The applicant must hold at least one additional current certification from the following sport organizations: USA Cycling Level I or Level II, USA Swimming/American Swimming Coaches Association, USA Track and Field, American College of Sports Medicine, National Strength and Conditioning Association, or National Academy of Sports Medicine.
  • Selected candidates complete a phone interview as part of the application process. 

A USAT Level III Coach understands and applies the following concepts while working with athletes:  

  • Advanced periodization and planning including program implementation, progression, lab and field testing and recovery methods.
  • Swim stroke analysis, run gait analysis, bike fit and analysis
  • Functional strength training and dynamic warmup
  • Advanced nutritional and mental skills strategies
  • ITU qualifications and rules
  • Race strategies

 

actually I am aware of what is needed and I have read this befroe....after rereading my post I understand why you may have thought I was attacking the level 2-3, that may be more becasue sometimes when I am posting I cannot write everything I would say if you and I were having a conversation...so if I offended I apologize...where my "shortness" came from is the frustration/issue I have with a local "coach" who is not upfront with his level 1 certification (i had a thread on this a few weeks back ) and he is promoting himself as if he coaches crowie or macca.

So to be clear I have little issue with level 2 and none with three, but a gripe with 1

2011-04-07 12:33 PM
in reply to: #3433385

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Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.

@FELTgood:

No offence taken and I totally understand your frustration with a lot of lvl 1 and non-certified coaches, and sorry if I offended you in any way. 

 

 

 

 

2011-04-07 3:28 PM
in reply to: #3432616

Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.

I don't know if we are in a crisis but we are heading in that direction. The current qualifications through the USAT to become a coach are a joke. In addition the quality of the course materials are rather low quality and the Continue Education Units offered in the form of seminars, webinars, etc can be a hit or miss depending on the speaker (mostly a miss). 

I've voiced my concerns many times to the powers that be at the USAT and due to the lack of response leads me to believe they have little interest in improving the quality and status for the profession. In addition, their blatant association and promotion of certain coaching groups tells me they are currently more concerned with making money as opposed to making sure the next generation of coaches have the skills and experience to guide future triathletes generations.

In my opinion, our governing body has to bare most of the blame for the current situation. In addition, us coaches have also to be held accountable. Earning a Level 1 certification over a weekend of rehashing pseudo science and coaching methods from self appointed experts writing 'bibles' is just the very 1st and small step on a long journey of constant education. There is a wealth of information out there for those who proactively want to advance their knowledge. Sorry, in terms of endurance training there are no secrets, no magic 'systems', no special approaches. The information is there for anyone willing to look for it.

Though while it can be found in different ways, it does takes a significant time and money investment. Further more, science, technology and physiology can only take you so far; there is also the experience, and that can only be acquired through spending time on the field. This does NOT mean to be racing, it means spending time with athletes, learning from experimenting and even making mistakes with your athletes programs.

Anyone can write a plan, hell, athletes can find a thousand free plans online. Anyone can help an AGer improved. Anyone can rehash training materials and be an 'expert'. A training plan is a VERY small portion of what constitutes a good training program. The plan takes a lot of attention because usually is the palpable item an athlete receives. But a program includes many different things beyond telling someone to go hard or take it easy.

It takes much more to become a coach, even more to become a good coach and it takes more than knowledge to become a great coach. I've been lucky to have learned from some of what I consider great coaches. Some are recognizable names, some not so much, yet all have the skills, experience and ability to coach and teach. 

Anyway, because of this crisis, I took upon myself to develop a certification for my associate coaches; that is, I'll invest a great deal of my time making sure my coaches have the level of understanding to provide the service I envision for my company. The certification is broken down in 6 modules covering training concepts, physiology, biomechanics, performance modeling/testing and more taking place over 6 months. I am far from an expert but I can say I've invested time in educating myself and the certification also gives me an opportunity to further advance that knowledge.

It is a big task but so far is working out great and I think is worth the investment. I rather do this than rely on our governing body; sure I request coaches to have a certification (preferably from USAC, USAS or UST&F) but mostly from liability purposes. I couldn't care less if they are USAT certified because if they are, most likely I'll have to spend extra time busting training myths they learned during their certification anyway.

The vast majority today are what I refer to "people who train athletes", some are coaches, a small portion are good coaches and a handful are great coaches. Today you can find "people who train athletes" everywhere and it was intimidating to think I could become a full time coach due to their proliferation a few months ago. But honestly, I see it as an opportunity and why I'll make the switch next month.

Still, I wish we could receive more support from our governing body to rectify this, but, since I can't seat down and wait for this I rather be a positive driving force to pursue this; I am doing this and will continue to do so with or without their help.

2011-04-07 8:25 PM
in reply to: #3434866

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Spring, TX
Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.
JorgeM - 2011-04-07 3:28 PM

Anyway, because of this crisis, I took upon myself to develop a certification for my associate coaches; that is, I'll invest a great deal of my time making sure my coaches have the level of understanding to provide the service I envision for my company. The certification is broken down in 6 modules covering training concepts, physiology, biomechanics, performance modeling/testing and more taking place over 6 months. I am far from an expert but I can say I've invested time in educating myself and the certification also gives me an opportunity to further advance that knowledge.

It is a big task but so far is working out great and I think is worth the investment. I rather do this than rely on our governing body; sure I request coaches to have a certification (preferably from USAC, USAS or UST&F) but mostly from liability purposes. I couldn't care less if they are USAT certified because if they are, most likely I'll have to spend extra time busting training myths they learned during their certification anyway.

Jorge, as one of your athletes, I obviously believe strongly in your approach to training and commitment to applying your extensive knowledge to getting the best out of your athletes.  However, I'm curious how you see your coaching certification program fitting into the big picture of triathlon.

Within your circle of influence, I know it will carry weight and credibility.  But outside that circle, the 'E3T Certification' (or whatever it is called) won't carry nearly as much meaning as a USAT Lvl 1 certification.  Despite the laughable requirements for USAT Lvl 1, having the sport's governing body's name gives instant credibility.  If I had never heard of you and found out that some coaching business in Boston was offering a certification, I would be initially pretty skeptical. 

The benefit I see is that the new coaches in your program will be there because they want to be, and they know that they'll learn an approach to training that has real substance.  They won't take the time or make the commitment if learning a scientific, knowledge based system isn't something that they're really motivated to do. 

I think it's a great idea, but in the current muddled world of triathlon coaches, this won't increase the clarity.  Quality yes, but not clarity. 

2011-04-08 5:36 AM
in reply to: #3434866

Champion
9407
500020002000100100100100
Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.
Jorge makes a number of great points but I wanted to highlight the one below:

JorgeM - 2011-04-07 5:28 PM

Though while it can be found in different ways, it does takes a significant time and money investment. Further more, science, technology and physiology can only take you so far; there is also the experience, and that can only be acquired through spending time on the field. This does NOT mean to be racing, it means spending time with athletes, learning from experimenting and even making mistakes with your athletes programs.


IMO, it is far too common that someone with little or no coaching experience gets involved in the sport, races for a couple of seasons and after doing some reading on various forums and a couple of books, takes the USAT Level 1 course and becomes a coach. When people in this position post looking for advice I was recommend that they find a triclub and/or youth program in their area where they can spend time coaching athletes face to face for a year to gain the experience dealing with athletes that they are lacking. I also typically recommend they offer to individually coach an athlete or two for free for a season so that they can get a feel for what is involved with this type of coaching. After that, if they are still interested in coaching, then I suggest they determine how much they plan to charge and take on a small number of athletes for a price that is commiserate with their experience.

I see far too many coaches with little experience charging athletes a huge amount each month for coaching simply because they can; not because their experience or athletes' results would indicate that they should be charging that much but because other coaches are charging that much.

Shane


2011-04-08 1:13 PM
in reply to: #3435356

Coach
10487
50005000100100100100252525
Boston, MA
Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.
AndrewMT - 2011-04-07 8:25 PM 

Jorge, as one of your athletes, I obviously believe strongly in your approach to training and commitment to applying your extensive knowledge to getting the best out of your athletes.  However, I'm curious how you see your coaching certification program fitting into the big picture of triathlon.

Within your circle of influence, I know it will carry weight and credibility.  But outside that circle, the 'E3T Certification' (or whatever it is called) won't carry nearly as much meaning as a USAT Lvl 1 certification.  Despite the laughable requirements for USAT Lvl 1, having the sport's governing body's name gives instant credibility.  If I had never heard of you and found out that some coaching business in Boston was offering a certification, I would be initially pretty skeptical. 

The benefit I see is that the new coaches in your program will be there because they want to be, and they know that they'll learn an approach to training that has real substance.  They won't take the time or make the commitment if learning a scientific, knowledge based system isn't something that they're really motivated to do. 

I think it's a great idea, but in the current muddled world of triathlon coaches, this won't increase the clarity.  Quality yes, but not clarity. 

I can't say much for now, but that is something I am well aware of and I already began taking the steps necessary to correct it!

2011-04-08 3:53 PM
in reply to: #3432616

Extreme Veteran
590
500252525
Seattle
Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.

I don't see it as a problem, let the market decide.  If someone is a sham and just gets their athletes injured or turn in sub-par performances, they will stop going to him/her and there will be no new referrals.  Eventually this coach will be out of business.

If USAT's model works for people, it will survive.  If others think a better system, let them try it.  It's like all the certification bodies for personal training, there is no real governing body and none of the certs or licenses are "required" to be a PT.  Is that any different?  What about for piano teachers, or tutors?  Professional licenses and certifications are maybe nice to have, but not required and I don't think they should be. 

I wouldn't equate an AG-level tri coach to an accountant or physical therapist.  Totally different league and expectations, in my opinion.

2011-04-08 5:06 PM
in reply to: #3436738

Expert
2547
200050025
The Woodlands, TX
Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.
Lilac J - 2011-04-08 3:53 PM

I don't see it as a problem, let the market decide.  If someone is a sham and just gets their athletes injured or turn in sub-par performances, they will stop going to him/her and there will be no new referrals.  Eventually this coach will be out of business.

If USAT's model works for people, it will survive.  If others think a better system, let them try it.  It's like all the certification bodies for personal training, there is no real governing body and none of the certs or licenses are "required" to be a PT.  Is that any different?  What about for piano teachers, or tutors?  Professional licenses and certifications are maybe nice to have, but not required and I don't think they should be. 

I wouldn't equate an AG-level tri coach to an accountant or physical therapist.  Totally different league and expectations, in my opinion.

I agree ^^^^. Market will make the decision. Kinda reminds me of when the internet was new. All those sites Toys.com, Pets.com, bbq.com, etc. and every guy with internet access thought he could make a mint by simply putting up a website. Market flushed it out and the people who knew what they were doing (for the most part) are still out there whether they are big or small.

On a micro level I'm already seeing some of it around where I live. People are getting disappointed in their results and seeing their friends or competitors do really well with other coaches. So they are making a move. The USAT stuff will get refined as the years go by, the the baseline (level 1) will always be easy.

2011-04-08 5:17 PM
in reply to: #3433069

Regular
186
100252525
Subject: RE: The Coaching "Crisis": Your Opinions on US "coach" credibility.

Reviews can be tough, we all know people will often say things on an internet forum that they would never say in real life.  That being, I don't think on-line reviews would subject the poster to liability except in especially egregious situations.

Its kind of funny, my massage therapist and my manicurist are both required to be licensed by the state but my coach isn't.  The rational (other than licensing fees paid to the state) for this is that without proper training and knoweldge they could potential hurt me, the customer.  It seems interesting to me that a massage therapist, manicurist (or even a hair dressor) needs a license but a coach does not.  I think that my coach has a greater potential to hurt me than any other those other professions. 

 

In California, they say that they test people for licenses to make sure they're more adept to and proficient at their credentials. But from my experience, it's more about money than the reasoning.52 hours of pre-licensing to manage people's financial planning and future with some test questions that are 15 years old with a few that are current...but a beautician need to take 1800 hours before she can get to do her job.

Edited by daharryone 2011-04-08 5:18 PM
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