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2011-04-07 1:04 PM

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Subject: For those who don't do flip turns
I'm new to swimming, so far it seems to be progressing well but I don't do flip turns and I'm wondering what other people's sequences are once they hit the wall. I feel like I waste time (although gaining an extra breath) with my turning, and it feels as graceful as a bull in a china shop. Basically, I touch the wall, turn, kind of launch myself off by pushing, and skim the top while putting my face in. I know, poetry in motion, right?

I don't want to learn flip turns at this point - I've gone from being afraid to put my face in the water to swimming laps. Maybe in the future, but I don't want to add them in now.


2011-04-07 1:07 PM
in reply to: #3434533

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Master
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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns

I'm basically too lazy to learn a good flip turn, so I do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThOauZ7Ip9w

2011-04-07 1:10 PM
in reply to: #3434533

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns

I don't do flip turns personally and you will get probably a mix on this site regarding this question.  Have considered spending time learning but with so many other things I still have to work on flip turns seems to provide the lowest ROI.  For me, Touch, turn and easy push to get me level in the water again and off I go. 

2011-04-07 1:16 PM
in reply to: #3434533

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Alpharetta, Georgia
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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns

I did them when I was competing in a pool in high school - so it's not that I don't know how.

I just don't see the point (for me, personally) when training for open water swim triathlons. I throw them in every now and again just for fun, but not consistently.

I do what that video a few posts above shows.

2011-04-07 1:43 PM
in reply to: #3434533

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns

Don't really see any advantage of doing flip turns in Tri training.  Plus I've had some problems with back injuries over the years and don't want to tempt fate doing flip turns.  Open turns work fine for me. 

Mark

2011-04-07 1:52 PM
in reply to: #3434533

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns

No flip turns and no push-off.

No flips, because my brain is to too full trying to learn an efficient swim stroke to learn anything else.

No push-off, because there is no place to push-off every 25/50m in OWS (that's just my OCD showing)



2011-04-07 1:56 PM
in reply to: #3434659

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns
halfmarathondon - 2011-04-07 11:52 AM

No flip turns and no push-off.

No flips, because my brain is to too full trying to learn an efficient swim stroke to learn anything else.

No push-off, because there is no place to push-off every 25/50m in OWS (that's just my OCD showing)

Hopefully, you don't come to a complete stop in races every 25 yards and turn around either 

For the OP, I know people that open turn and can be just as fast as some fast triathlete swimmers.  Swim all the way to the wall, grab the edge, pull your head up, turn and put yuor head back in the water, and push off.  As fast as you can.  The less you make it an opportunity to rest or get an extra breath, the more good you'll be doing

2011-04-07 1:59 PM
in reply to: #3434533

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns

kwynnc - 2011-04-07 2:04 PM  Basically, I touch the wall, turn, kind of launch myself off by pushing, and skim the top while putting my face in. I know, poetry in motion, right? I

I don't skim the surface.  I submerge the same as someone doing a flip turn.

2011-04-07 2:02 PM
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2011-04-07 2:17 PM
in reply to: #3434533

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns
I don't flip - I spend as little time as possible at the wall. Touch, turn, and go.  Same philosophy as above - you don't get an extra push or a rest stop every 25m on an open water swim.  I tried flipping but, felt it was counter productive to my goals.  Mostly I do pool swims because it's more convenient than the lake - not to mention warmer in the winter time!  We try to do a few lake swims before races, and one a week during the summer.  I much prefer the lake.
2011-04-07 2:21 PM
in reply to: #3434542

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns
Oldteen - 2011-04-07 2:07 PM

I'm basically too lazy to learn a good flip turn, so I do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThOauZ7Ip9w



I was planning to suggest this for all of you...Excellent video...!!!! 

Good Luck...!!!!


2011-04-07 2:26 PM
in reply to: #3434533

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns

I do it like the vid.  Which way I turn is determined by which hand reaches the wall.  Also, I breath every 3 strokes, but to avoid the extra breath I will sometimes take 4 strokes rigth before the wall (if needed)... so it's less breath!  Deal with that all you extra breath haters!

 

2011-04-07 2:43 PM
in reply to: #3434559

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns
lisac957 - 2011-04-07 2:16 PM

I did them when I was competing in a pool in high school - so it's not that I don't know how.

I just don't see the point (for me, personally) when training for open water swim triathlons. I throw them in every now and again just for fun, but not consistently.

I do what that video a few posts above shows.

 

x2 What's the point?

2011-04-07 2:46 PM
in reply to: #3434533

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns
this question always opens up a can of whoop $#% on this board.......I do not think its necessary to do them, so if you can and want to do it if not it will not make a difference..imo
2011-04-07 2:51 PM
in reply to: #3434773

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns
jeffdav - 2011-04-07 1:43 PM
x2 What's the point?



Well, in general would it be a good idea to train to ride like a cyclist? Or perhaps train to run like a runner? Maybe then it's good practice to train to swim like a swimmer. Just a thought.
2011-04-07 2:58 PM
in reply to: #3434780

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns
FELTGood - 2011-04-07 1:46 PM

this question always opens up a can of whoop $#% on this board.......


Only when people try and make the case that flip turns have no swim training value for triathlon swimming, that learning other strokes is a waste of time, and that you shouldn't push off the wall as you can't do that in open water.

Edited by bryancd 2011-04-07 2:59 PM


2011-04-07 3:01 PM
in reply to: #3434785

Alpharetta, Georgia
Bronze member
Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns

bryancd - 2011-04-07 2:51 PM
jeffdav - 2011-04-07 1:43 PM x2 What's the point?
Well, in general would it be a good idea to train to ride like a cyclist? Or perhaps train to run like a runner? Maybe then it's good practice to train to swim like a swimmer. Just a thought.

I see what you're saying, however...
For someone who, say, currently has no clue how to flip turn... my opinion is that they'd get a better return on their time invested by focusing on activities that are more related to the ultimate goal of an outdoor triathlon (if that's what they are training for). For example: swim form, open water swimming, sighting, drafting, conquering lake monsters, etc.

 



Edited by lisac957 2011-04-07 3:02 PM
2011-04-07 3:02 PM
in reply to: #3434780

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns

FELTGood - 2011-04-07 3:46 PM  if not it will not make a difference..imo

I would practice them just so when the time comes for an indoor tri you are ready to take at least 1-2s off each 100 that you do.

2011-04-07 3:06 PM
in reply to: #3434800

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns
lisac957 - 2011-04-07 4:01 PM

bryancd - 2011-04-07 2:51 PM
jeffdav - 2011-04-07 1:43 PM x2 What's the point?
Well, in general would it be a good idea to train to ride like a cyclist? Or perhaps train to run like a runner? Maybe then it's good practice to train to swim like a swimmer. Just a thought.

I see what you're saying, however...
For someone who, say, currently has no clue how to flip turn... my opinion is that they'd get a better return on their time invested by focusing on activities that are more related to the ultimate goal of an outdoor triathlon (if that's what they are training for). For example: swim form, open water swimming, sighting, drafting, conquering lake monsters, etc.

 

How much time are we talking to learn a flip turn?  I know for a fact that I swim 100 yds 6s faster doing flip turns.  I know it took me probably a week of constantly trying them to get comfortable.  It takes me a lot longer than a week to knock 6s off the swimming portion of my 100yd.  Yeah...we are talking about pools here, but I live in an area with a good number of pool tris, so it's applicable. 

2011-04-07 3:09 PM
in reply to: #3434812

Alpharetta, Georgia
Bronze member
Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns
jgerbodegrant - 2011-04-07 3:06 PM
lisac957 - 2011-04-07 4:01 PM

bryancd - 2011-04-07 2:51 PM
jeffdav - 2011-04-07 1:43 PM x2 What's the point?
Well, in general would it be a good idea to train to ride like a cyclist? Or perhaps train to run like a runner? Maybe then it's good practice to train to swim like a swimmer. Just a thought.

I see what you're saying, however...
For someone who, say, currently has no clue how to flip turn... my opinion is that they'd get a better return on their time invested by focusing on activities that are more related to the ultimate goal of an outdoor triathlon (if that's what they are training for). For example: swim form, open water swimming, sighting, drafting, conquering lake monsters, etc.

 

How much time are we talking to learn a flip turn?  I know for a fact that I swim 100 yds 6s faster doing flip turns.  I know it took me probably a week of constantly trying them to get comfortable.  It takes me a lot longer than a week to knock 6s off the swimming portion of my 100yd.  Yeah...we are talking about pools here, but I live in an area with a good number of pool tris, so it's applicable. 

That's great, that flip turns knocked that much time off your 100yd. For me, I swim the exact same pace but am more fatigued when I flip turn. Plus I am not training for pool triathlons.

What if you would have spend that week focusing on your form or being coached? For me, when I did that, I knocked off around 15 seconds off my 100yd swim time.

Everyone's results will vary, so there is no right or wrong answer here.

 

2011-04-07 3:15 PM
in reply to: #3434533

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns
Like I said Whoop-#$% lol...its all good!!


2011-04-07 3:15 PM
in reply to: #3434818

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns
lisac957 - 2011-04-07 4:09 PM
jgerbodegrant - 2011-04-07 3:06 PM
lisac957 - 2011-04-07 4:01 PM

bryancd - 2011-04-07 2:51 PM
jeffdav - 2011-04-07 1:43 PM x2 What's the point?
Well, in general would it be a good idea to train to ride like a cyclist? Or perhaps train to run like a runner? Maybe then it's good practice to train to swim like a swimmer. Just a thought.

I see what you're saying, however...
For someone who, say, currently has no clue how to flip turn... my opinion is that they'd get a better return on their time invested by focusing on activities that are more related to the ultimate goal of an outdoor triathlon (if that's what they are training for). For example: swim form, open water swimming, sighting, drafting, conquering lake monsters, etc.

 

How much time are we talking to learn a flip turn?  I know for a fact that I swim 100 yds 6s faster doing flip turns.  I know it took me probably a week of constantly trying them to get comfortable.  It takes me a lot longer than a week to knock 6s off the swimming portion of my 100yd.  Yeah...we are talking about pools here, but I live in an area with a good number of pool tris, so it's applicable. 

That's great, that flip turns knocked that much time off your 100yd. For me, I swim the exact same pace but am more fatigued when I flip turn. Plus I am not training for pool triathlons.

What if you would have spend that week focusing on your form or being coached? For me, when I did that, I knocked off around 15 seconds off my 100yd swim time.

Everyone's results will vary, so there is no right or wrong answer here.

 

That is a good point Lisa.  Right when I first started, I would say that a week of coaching knocked about the same amount of time off of my 100yd.

2011-04-07 3:17 PM
in reply to: #3434559

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns
lisac957 - 2011-04-07 11:16 AM

I did them when I was competing in a pool in high school - so it's not that I don't know how.

I just don't see the point (for me, personally) when training for open water swim triathlons. I throw them in every now and again just for fun, but not consistently.

I do what that video a few posts above shows.

X - whatever.

2011-04-07 3:25 PM
in reply to: #3434812

Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns
jgerbodegrant - 2011-04-07 1:06 PM
lisac957 - 2011-04-07 4:01 PM

bryancd - 2011-04-07 2:51 PM
jeffdav - 2011-04-07 1:43 PM x2 What's the point?
Well, in general would it be a good idea to train to ride like a cyclist? Or perhaps train to run like a runner? Maybe then it's good practice to train to swim like a swimmer. Just a thought.

I see what you're saying, however...
For someone who, say, currently has no clue how to flip turn... my opinion is that they'd get a better return on their time invested by focusing on activities that are more related to the ultimate goal of an outdoor triathlon (if that's what they are training for). For example: swim form, open water swimming, sighting, drafting, conquering lake monsters, etc.

 

How much time are we talking to learn a flip turn?  I know for a fact that I swim 100 yds 6s faster doing flip turns.  I know it took me probably a week of constantly trying them to get comfortable.  It takes me a lot longer than a week to knock 6s off the swimming portion of my 100yd.  Yeah...we are talking about pools here, but I live in an area with a good number of pool tris, so it's applicable. 

Yeah, to get deeper into this, if someone spends 5 mintues every swim session for two weeks, they will be a decent flip turner.  Really, it's not like memorizing the periodic table. 

If someone doesn't want to learn flip turns, or knows how and doesn't want to do them, that's an honest answer, and I have no problem with it.  But people that say that not pushing off the wall is better training because you don't have walls in open water are giving newbies here really bad advice.  Some of the worst on BT, I'd say (after buckets in transition)

From a pure physical standpoint, OW training is best, but not everyone can do that.  lacking that, which is better:  (1) getting back to a streamlined position on top of the water as you would throughout the course of an OWS sooner by acclerating off a wall; or (2) starting with your body at a dead stop, legs sinking the water column, having to get back up to speed using an unnatural stroke every 25 yards?  I'd be interested to see if anyone actually says #2.

And, if you think it's cheating you yards (?) swim another 100 yds in your workout and your "even"

If I were looking at this issue, I would look at the fish on the board, and see what they do, and emulate that.  rstocks.  tjfry. etc etc. 

It's very interesting to me how heated this debate gets when it comes down to pure physics.

To reiterate so it's clear, don't wanna?  that's cool.  Just want to touch and turn cuz that's how you roll and you feel it's good for you?  That's cool.  Stating that a touch and turn is better OW training?  not cool. 



Edited by ChrisM 2011-04-07 3:28 PM
2011-04-07 3:28 PM
in reply to: #3434773

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Subject: RE: For those who don't do flip turns
jeffdav - 2011-04-08 9:43 AM
lisac957 - 2011-04-07 2:16 PM

I did them when I was competing in a pool in high school - so it's not that I don't know how.

I just don't see the point (for me, personally) when training for open water swim triathlons. I throw them in every now and again just for fun, but not consistently.

I do what that video a few posts above shows.

 

x2 What's the point?

x3 no need

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