General Discussion Triathlon Talk » 12-miler week before HM? Rss Feed  
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2011-04-25 8:23 AM

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Subject: 12-miler week before HM?

Hi.  I have been following Hal Higden's  Intermediate training plan for my HM on May 7 (2 weeks out).  I haven't missed a single run.  Yesterday's long run called for 11-miles.  Next week's long run is 12-miles (just 6-days before the race).  I am not an experienced HM'er but this seems strange to me.  I would expect some sort of step back with the long run.

Experienced runners help me out.  I ran 12-miles yesterday (instead of 11).  Should I run 12 again next week or step it back a bit?  Please advise.



2011-04-25 8:28 AM
in reply to: #3464017

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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?

I'm doing a similar plan from RW for a HM on May 7, and mine calls for an 11 miler on May 6.  I ran 13.1 yesterday for the plan. 

My thought is that six days out, there's no magical workout you can or can't do that's going to make you faster or have more endurance on race day.  You can't "cram" for a race.  I think any long run on that will be fine.  What are the rest of the runs you have planned for race week?  Mine from here out are as follows:

Today - No running

4/26 - Easy 3 miles

4/27 - Easy 3 miles

4/28 - 4x1 mile repeats at 8:15

5/1 - Long Slow Distance (11 miles)

5/3 - Easy 3 miles

5/5 - Tempo Run (1 mile w/u, 3 @8:54, 1 mile c/d)

5/7 - Race Day

I took out one of the easy runs per week from the set plan from RW, since I do so much biking and swimming.  I am considering bumping my 5/1 run down to 9 or 10 miles, or I might just go until I start to feel fatigued and quit, whether it's 6 miles or 11.

2011-04-25 9:00 AM
in reply to: #3464017

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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?

My plan calls for:

today - off

4/26 - 5-miles (easy)

4/27 - 5.5-miles (alternationg 400's at easy and 5k race pace)

4/28 - 3-miles (easy)

4/29 - off

4/30 - 3-miles (HM pace)

5/1 - 12-miles (easy)

5/2 - off

5/3 - 4-miles (easy)

5/4 - 4-miles (10k race pace)

5/5 - 3-miles (easy)

5/6 - off

5/7 - Race!

I have no issue with anything but the 12-miler 6 days out. Curious what others do.  Thanks.

2011-04-25 9:54 AM
in reply to: #3464017

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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?

I have no issue with it for an intermediate half marathon plan. For an athlete at that level, an easy 12 should be no big deal.

 

ETA -

On Hal's Intermediate HM plan I see this for the last week:

Sun - 12
Mon - Stretch & Strength
Tues-  4 mi
Wed - 30 minute tempo
Thurs - 2 mi
Fri - rest
Sat - rest
Sun - race



Edited by mrbbrad 2011-04-25 9:57 AM
2011-04-25 10:06 AM
in reply to: #3464017

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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?

Logs are empty so it's hard to say.

What weekly mileage have you been running, and for how long?  How many 10+ mile runs have you done in the past few months?  Have you done some of them at a hard effort, or all easy?

2011-04-25 10:23 AM
in reply to: #3464308

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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?

As mentioned, I have been following HH's HM program and haven't missed a run.  Last week I ran 31-miles.  My 12-miler yesterday was run at 7:54 pace (faster than I intended)  Prior, I have been running 4-6 days a week for about 3-years, however HM's are fairly new to me.  I have raced only one stand alone HM (last fall).  I have raced one HIM, a few Olys, and many sprint tri's (as well as 5k and 10k running races).

I am questioning the program not my ability to do it.  What is the benefit of the 12-miler 6-days out?  This race is an "A" race for me.  Is there any risk of not having fresh legs on race day?



2011-04-25 11:23 AM
in reply to: #3464118

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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?
valpodad - 2011-04-25 10:00 AM

My plan calls for:

today - off

4/26 - 5-miles (easy)

4/27 - 5.5-miles (alternationg 400's at easy and 5k race pace)

4/28 - 3-miles (easy)

4/29 - off

4/30 - 3-miles (HM pace)

5/1 - 12-miles (easy)

5/2 - off

5/3 - 4-miles (easy)

5/4 - 4-miles (10k race pace)

5/5 - 3-miles (easy)

5/6 - off

5/7 - Race!

I have no issue with anything but the 12-miler 6 days out. Curious what others do.  Thanks.

 

Looking at this in a vaccum, I do not like this leadup at all. I think that if you weekly mileage is only around 25-30 that 12mi (I am guessing your longest run in the whole plan) is to long 6 days out. The 12mi is not going to make you any stronger/fitter/faster only 6 days out, so I would rather have more rested legs and go with somethng like a relaxed 8mi.

Then 3 days prior you are running 4mi @ 10k pace? So pretty much you are running a 10k race only 3 days from your race? I like the idea of some up tempo stuff at that point, I would be doing 4/5 1000's at planned HM pace on the Tuesday (not the Wed) with the HM on Saturday.

That is my opinion and that is based off of my experience and not any hard science. This is one of the things about running, you learn from trial and error. You can go with your current plan and if that works  then great, you have a plan for life. If it does not work out for you, you can try something different for the next race.

Good luck

2011-04-25 11:33 AM
in reply to: #3464344

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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?
valpodad - 2011-04-25 11:23 AM

As mentioned, I have been following HH's HM program and haven't missed a run.  Last week I ran 31-miles.  My 12-miler yesterday was run at 7:54 pace (faster than I intended)  Prior, I have been running 4-6 days a week for about 3-years, however HM's are fairly new to me.  I have raced only one stand alone HM (last fall).  I have raced one HIM, a few Olys, and many sprint tri's (as well as 5k and 10k running races).

I am questioning the program not my ability to do it.  What is the benefit of the 12-miler 6-days out?  This race is an "A" race for me.  Is there any risk of not having fresh legs on race day?

 

I've never looked over the HH plans, so didn't know what mileage it entailed.

I agree with Daryn -- a 12 miler 6 days out on ~30mpw sounds like a bad idea.  I was running 50mpw leading up to a recent 'A' HM and ran quite a bit less than that leading into the race, and I'm still not sure I didn't go in with slightly tired legs (I was still biking up until race week as well, however).  My only intensity during race week was a hard-ish mile in the middle of a 5-mile run 4 days before.

If it were me, I'd dial it back a bit.

Have fun at the race!

2011-04-25 11:41 AM
in reply to: #3464017


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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?

I have done this plan, and actually substituted one run per week with a ride instead.  Yes, the last long run is only 6 days out, but it wasn't a problem for me at all.

I used this plan for my first HM, and the race felt great, no issues at all.  Would have liked to go a little faster (wanted to beat my wife's PR), but overall, I was pleased that I got under 2:00.

2011-04-25 11:58 AM
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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?
valpodad - 2011-04-25 8:23 AM

Hi.  I have been following Hal Higden's  Intermediate training plan for my HM on May 7 (2 weeks out).  I haven't missed a single run.  Yesterday's long run called for 11-miles.  Next week's long run is 12-miles (just 6-days before the race).  I am not an experienced HM'er but this seems strange to me.  I would expect some sort of step back with the long run.

Experienced runners help me out.  I ran 12-miles yesterday (instead of 11).  Should I run 12 again next week or step it back a bit?  Please advise.

That's a good plan & never doubt the great Hal!   I followed that same plan for several HM's last year and doing the 12 miler the week before worked out great for me.  I would just recommend taking it nice and easy during that run.  It'll keep the legs alert and reminded of the workload coming up the following week for your HM.  Good luck out there!

2011-04-25 12:00 PM
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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?

sounds perfect to me.

just run it easy, not hard.



2011-04-25 12:05 PM
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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?
My short answer is that Hal Higdon knows a LOT more about run training and race prep than most of us, I'd trust the plan.
2011-04-25 12:31 PM
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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?
I've followed Higdens plans for two Marathon's, the result came out just right. I'd stick with it, you've trusted it up to this point so why question it know. Don't deviate now, you'll do great. The plan was put together with a thought in mind of what the outcome should be, so there is sound reasoning for it.

Ju can du it
2011-04-25 1:07 PM
in reply to: #3464624

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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?
You are right.  I have trusted the program until now and feel like I am running well (for me).  Thanks for the confirmation.  I'll stick to the plan and run my race.  Indy Mini here I come...
2011-04-25 7:17 PM
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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?
I'm doing a HM this weekend. On saturday I set out for 12 and did 10 and it was at the pace I'm going to race at. Some may think thats crazy but I've been running for years and I'm young so my body recovers well. I will take it a little easier going into the end of the week with a run wed. then thursday off and a shorter run friday just to keep the legs awake then sat. morning race. I'm not much for tapering and whatever plan that showed 2 whole days off before the race is a little crazy to me. You want you legs and lungs to remember what its like to run.
2011-04-25 7:38 PM
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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?

grownassman161 - 2011-04-25 8:17 PM I'm doing a HM this weekend. On saturday I set out for 12 and did 10 and it was at the pace I'm going to race at. Some may think thats crazy but I've been running for years and I'm young so my body recovers well. I will take it a little easier going into the end of the week with a run wed. then thursday off and a shorter run friday just to keep the legs awake then sat. morning race. I'm not much for tapering and whatever plan that showed 2 whole days off before the race is a little crazy to me. You want you legs and lungs to remember what its like to run.

Unless your legs have Alzheimer's, they're not going forget in 2 days.



2011-04-25 7:41 PM
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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?
apicek - 2011-04-25 8:38 PM

grownassman161 - 2011-04-25 8:17 PM I'm doing a HM this weekend. On saturday I set out for 12 and did 10 and it was at the pace I'm going to race at. Some may think thats crazy but I've been running for years and I'm young so my body recovers well. I will take it a little easier going into the end of the week with a run wed. then thursday off and a shorter run friday just to keep the legs awake then sat. morning race. I'm not much for tapering and whatever plan that showed 2 whole days off before the race is a little crazy to me. You want you legs and lungs to remember what its like to run.

Unless your legs have Alzheimer's, they're not going forget in 2 days.

I know, its just my preference.

2011-04-25 8:07 PM
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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?

I am looking at HH's site for Intermediate HM plan, and it seems different than your posted plan..

10
Stretch &
Strengthen
5 m run
45 min tempo
3 m run +
strength
Rest
5 m pace
11 m run
11
Stretch &
Strengthen
5 m run
10 x 400 5-K pace
3 m run +
strength
Rest
3 m pace
12 m run
12
Stretch &
Strengthen
4 m run
30 min tempo
2 m run
Rest
Rest
Half Marathon

 

2011-04-25 8:23 PM
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Subject: RE: 12-miler week before HM?

grownassman161 - 2011-04-25 8:17 PM I'm doing a HM this weekend. On saturday I set out for 12 and did 10 and it was at the pace I'm going to race at. Some may think thats crazy but I've been running for years and I'm young so my body recovers well. I will take it a little easier going into the end of the week with a run wed. then thursday off and a shorter run friday just to keep the legs awake then sat. morning race. I'm not much for tapering and whatever plan that showed 2 whole days off before the race is a little crazy to me. You want you legs and lungs to remember what its like to run.

Yes, that's crazy.  Not even elite runners do a training run 75% of the race distance at race pace that close to the race.  We do this for fun, so sure, do whatever makes you happy.  But I will bet dollars to donuts that you'd be faster if you didn't run that hard for that long that close to the race.  It buys you almost zero fitness gain, and a huge recovery penalty.

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