General Discussion Triathlon Talk » 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing Rss Feed  
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2011-04-28 12:28 AM

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Subject: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
For the past three years, I have used 2 stroke breathing with all my swimming. Every pool workout I breathe on one side going one way in the pool and I breathe on the other side coming back. So essentially I switch breathing sides every 25 yards. I do a lot of OWS in the summer and and just switch every 30 seconds or so.

I have done this to balance out my stroke and to give me the ability to breath in either direction for extended periods of time if the sun is shining on one side or wave/wind is coming from a particular direction. This ability has been invaluable.

Today in the pool I decided to try 3 stroke breathing and as odd as it felt at first it seemed to keep me in a more balance rotation. I was also keeping my head down for longer periods of time which felt like a more streamlined position. I would like to keep developing my 3 stroke breathing if it is indeed faster than 2 stroke. Is it?

I know that some are more comfortable with 2 stroke due to the feeling of needing to breath more but let's assume that I am comfortable aerobically with 3 stroke.


2011-04-28 4:51 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing

popsracer - 2011-04-28 2:28 AM For the past three years, I have used 2 stroke breathing with all my swimming. Every pool workout I breathe on one side going one way in the pool and I breathe on the other side coming back. So essentially I switch breathing sides every 25 yards. I do a lot of OWS in the summer and and just switch every 30 seconds or so. I have done this to balance out my stroke and to give me the ability to breath in either direction for extended periods of time if the sun is shining on one side or wave/wind is coming from a particular direction. This ability has been invaluable. Today in the pool I decided to try 3 stroke breathing and as odd as it felt at first it seemed to keep me in a more balance rotation. I was also keeping my head down for longer periods of time which felt like a more streamlined position. I would like to keep developing my 3 stroke breathing if it is indeed faster than 2 stroke. Is it? I know that some are more comfortable with 2 stroke due to the feeling of needing to breath more but let's assume that I am comfortable aerobically with 3 stroke.

I think only you can answer that.  Time yourself doing a 100 (not all out - same effort level) for both the 2 and 3 stroke and see if there is a difference.  If the 3 strokes are really balancing you out better then you will be faster.

For me personally, I feel more comfortable breathing every 3-4 when I am at a cruising pace but once I am going harder it drops down to 2-3.  I think the fact that you are *capable* of breathing on both sides is a bigger asset in OWS than actually breathing bilaterally.  That allows you to breathe on whatever side the conditions dictate is better (waves, sun, etc.)

2011-04-28 5:12 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
I was told by a BTer (who did Kona in about 11 hours) and my Olympic Time Trialist swim coach that one should breathe when he or she feels comfortable when I was worried about such things. The swim coach said she breathes every time she's extending her right arm, just like me, and that's how she's always done it. You should be comfortable in the swim, in my opine, as you dont want to kill yourself there. Save it for the bike and the run!
2011-04-28 5:46 AM
in reply to: #3470516

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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
gary hall sr. did an article on this too... he suggested breathing essentially when you need air. 
2011-04-28 6:07 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
Breathe whenever you need to. I don't think about my breathing. For me, the pattern changes automatically as my effort level changes. IMO, too many people worry too much about when to breathe, when the most important thing is to develop good technique that allows you to take a breath whenever needed without disrupting your stroke.
2011-04-28 6:16 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing

jsklarz - 2011-04-28 5:46 AM gary hall sr. did an article on this too... he suggested breathing essentially when you need air. 

Seems like sound advice for any situation...



2011-04-28 7:25 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
I have very much found the same thing as the OP.  I was a 2 stroke breather, but early on switched to 3 strokes and found that it helped keep me more balanced.  I've also found it invaluable when there is chop in OWS and I need to pick just one side to breathe on.  Plus, it's become second nature to breathe every third stroke, not too quick and not too long.  Best of everything for me at this point.
2011-04-28 7:48 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
AndrewMT - 2011-04-28 7:16 PM

jsklarz - 2011-04-28 5:46 AM gary hall sr. did an article on this too... he suggested breathing essentially when you need air. 

Seems like sound advice for any situation...

 

^^^^^^

This made me choke on my sandwich!!!

2011-04-28 7:53 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
Does breathing every 3 cause you to hold your breath at all or are you still able to maintain a constant in/out flow of air from your lungs?  You want your breathing cycle to be as natural as possible when swimming, so if that means every 2, go with every 2, if it means every 3, go with every 3.
2011-04-28 8:02 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
I go 2 only b/c it's more rhythmic.  When I do 3 stroke it feels like I'm holding my breath even though I'm breathing out under water.  I can breath to either side but I'm much more relaxed with 2 stroke
2011-04-28 8:09 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing

popsracer - 2011-04-28 1:28 AM For the past three years, I have used 2 stroke breathing with all my swimming. Every pool workout I breathe on one side going one way in the pool and I breathe on the other side coming back. So essentially I switch breathing sides every 25 yards. I do a lot of OWS in the summer and and just switch every 30 seconds or so. I have done this to balance out my stroke and to give me the ability to breath in either direction for extended periods of time if the sun is shining on one side or wave/wind is coming from a particular direction. This ability has been invaluable. Today in the pool I decided to try 3 stroke breathing and as odd as it felt at first it seemed to keep me in a more balance rotation. I was also keeping my head down for longer periods of time which felt like a more streamlined position. I would like to keep developing my 3 stroke breathing if it is indeed faster than 2 stroke. Is it? I know that some are more comfortable with 2 stroke due to the feeling of needing to breath more but let's assume that I am comfortable aerobically with 3 stroke.

This is exactly the case for me.  I can take a breath every other stroke and go just as fast when I get winded, but breathing every third stroke, bilaterally, keeps me more consistent and uses less energy.  I can focus on a more streamlined position.  I am much faster when I don't have to breathe at all....but that only lasts about 25 yds.



2011-04-28 8:11 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
so if you breath only on one side what do you do when you have wave in an ocean swim for a HIM or IM?
2011-04-28 8:19 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing

I've been breathing on both sides, switching from left to right every few laps.  I've spent some time doing laps with bilateral breathing, but it feels like I'm having to hold my breath to do it.  I've been trying to slow down my exhale to offset this, but my main problem may be that my strokes are fairly slow, so the time lapse between 3 strokes is too long for me.  I'm not sure whether I should actually speed up my strokes when doing bilateral breathing to get my breathing closer to a comfortable cadence.  It may well be that I've been stroking more slowly because I'm breathing every 2 and not wanting to breathe too often.

2011-04-28 8:31 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
These are some real helpful opinions for me, thanks keep 'em coming!  I find myself in almost the same situation as the OP.  I'm thrilled that I have the ability to breathe to either side and do the same thing in the pool, switching every 25 yds.  It's good to hear that there's nothing wrong with my inability to consistently go every 3 to breathe, since I find my self gasping if I do that.
2011-04-28 9:22 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
Try a 3-2-3-2 pattern.  I normally breath every 3 but find the combo pattern works well for me during hard efforts.  Also, as has been pointed out by others, since you can breathe on both sides with no issues, breathe when needed.  I do find sticking to a pattern works better for me although I will change my pattern as the situation dictates.   
2011-04-28 9:54 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
bwalling - 2011-04-28 9:19 AM

I've been breathing on both sides, switching from left to right every few laps.  I've spent some time doing laps with bilateral breathing, but it feels like I'm having to hold my breath to do it.  I've been trying to slow down my exhale to offset this, but my main problem may be that my strokes are fairly slow, so the time lapse between 3 strokes is too long for me.  I'm not sure whether I should actually speed up my strokes when doing bilateral breathing to get my breathing closer to a comfortable cadence.  It may well be that I've been stroking more slowly because I'm breathing every 2 and not wanting to breathe too often.

No, do NOT speed up your strokes.  Longer more efficient strokes!

Do you mean that you are breathing every fourth stroke?  (one arm pull = one stroke).  I only ask because you say you are breathing every 2 so as to not breathe too often.  If this IS the case, because you are out of breath, you want to breathe after every 3rd arm pull, or every 3rd stroke.  Does this make sense?



2011-04-28 9:54 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing

ibndalight - 2011-04-28 9:11 AM so if you breath only on one side what do you do when you have wave in an ocean swim for a HIM or IM?

Switch to the other.  I can breath to both sides I just feel more comfortable breathing every stroke.  Doesn't matter which direction though

2011-04-28 11:57 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing

When I first started swimming last summer I only did 2 stroke breathing to my left side.  After doing an OWS in the ocean and having my face pounded by waves and gulping a bunch of saltwater I was determine to master bilateral breathing.  I took about a couple months to do, but now I feel most comfortable breathing every 3 strokes and would also say I'm faster with that pattern.  If I have to stay on one side I prefer to go 4 stroke or may be a 4-2-4-2.

Whether you breath every 2, 3, or 4 strokes, the key to it all is focusing on the exhale, not worrying about the inhale.  A few have stated that they feel like their holding their breath when they try to go for 3 stroke.  They probably are and that's the problem.  I became most comfortable breathing every 3 strokes when I really started to exhale hard.  I mean exhale as if you are blowing up a balloon.  You won't run out of air.  The problem I have now with a 2 stroke breathing is I don't feel as if I have sufficient time to exhale and then my rhythm get thrown off.

What really helped me with exhaling is the sink drill at this link http://www.swimsmooth.com/exhalation.html.

2011-04-28 1:46 PM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
jgerbodegrant - 2011-04-28 9:54 AM

bwalling - 2011-04-28 9:19 AM

I've been breathing on both sides, switching from left to right every few laps.  I've spent some time doing laps with bilateral breathing, but it feels like I'm having to hold my breath to do it.  I've been trying to slow down my exhale to offset this, but my main problem may be that my strokes are fairly slow, so the time lapse between 3 strokes is too long for me.  I'm not sure whether I should actually speed up my strokes when doing bilateral breathing to get my breathing closer to a comfortable cadence.  It may well be that I've been stroking more slowly because I'm breathing every 2 and not wanting to breathe too often.

No, do NOT speed up your strokes.  Longer more efficient strokes!

Do you mean that you are breathing every fourth stroke?  (one arm pull = one stroke).  I only ask because you say you are breathing every 2 so as to not breathe too often.  If this IS the case, because you are out of breath, you want to breathe after every 3rd arm pull, or every 3rd stroke.  Does this make sense?



Thanks for all the great feedback. Stroke efficiency and the resulting increase in speed is what really got me going on this. If you watch the swim presentation that was on the front page of the forum it is emphasized that quickening stroke is a problem not a solution. I think of it as the Lezak effect now. While focusing on keeping stroke count low and efficient as I tired I thought I'd try 3 stroke breathing to see if that would further aid in this effort. So far it has but I'm still learning.
2011-04-28 7:41 PM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing

I have been three stroke breathing for as long as I can remember.  Two stroke breathing has me panting and four is a little too long (but doable).  Some added benefits for me are more consistent power from each arm, straighter swimming and keeping an eye on surrounding swimmers.  During ocean swims depending on waves and wind you will appreciate being equally able to choose the best side based on conditions.

While lap swimming my son & I sometimes have gone to 5 & 7 breath 50's to break it up a little.  Suprisingly they aren't too hard.

 

2011-04-29 4:38 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
I have a bizarre breathing pattern: 2-2-4.  In HS I could swim 1500m in under 21 minutes using this pattern. Breathing every 2 is too much, every 4 isn't enough unless it's 100m or less. But I realize that it has caused me navigation problems in OWS, to say nothing of sometimes coming up for air on that side and not being able to get it when I need it. So I have been working a lot this past year on bilateral breathing. I can now do it comfortably, but when doing long, race-pace sets or time trials, I still fall into 2-2-4; 3 doesn't seem to give me quite enough oxygen, and feels a bit awkward. Still debating on whether I should force myself to always breathe every 3 for the sake of balancing my stroke, or do it periodically, or just know that I can and do it when needed, esp. in OWS.  I see the point of "balance", but if I swam 20+ back then, does it really matter that much? Or are my slower times now (about 25 minutes for 1500m all-out in pool) mainly a matter of age and fitness level?


2011-04-29 6:24 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing

Actually, I still think of it as one-side vs. two-side.

During training, I am now about 75% bilateral (3 stroke breathing)

During races, I am 90% one-side, with my prefered side to the right.  I mostly breath every time that my left arm extends, but if I feel relaxed and good enough, I will skip every other breath.  Thus, I am able to mix in some 4 stroke breathing with 2 stroke breathing.

2011-04-29 8:07 AM
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2011-04-29 8:42 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing
I breathe when I need to and that varies based on effort. I can breathe to either side and vary from 4 strokes to 2 strokes between breaths. The harder I go, the more often I breathe. The easier I go the less often I breathe. I've played around and gone 7 strokes but I had to go very easy and really focus on a slow steady exhale.
2011-04-29 10:59 AM
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Subject: RE: 2 stroke vs. 3 stroke breathing

I think the best answer is to learn to breathe on both sides.  If the water is calm and the sun is not an issue, breathe when you need air.  If you have to battle the sun or choppy water, breathe to the side that will not cause you any problems.

YouTube some Olympic swimmers.  Racers in the shorter distance races, 50-200m, will breathe less frequently.  The swimmers doing the 800 and 1500m swims swim much more frequently.  In fact, you will probably notice that these longer distance swimmers don't typically keep the same breathing pattern.  they are just breathing when they need air.

 

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