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2011-05-18 9:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)

1) We are talking about a difference between 2 miles and 4 miles.   In my view, the difference between the two is so miniscule, what is the point of causing a ruckus over this?  I think that is why the race owner sounded a little annoyed.  In the big grand scheme of things, it wont matter one bit for your overall tri training that the race is 2 miles, and not 4 miles.   

2) Races do change distances and courses, even on race day, so you really can't get set on any particular set of parameters to the point of wanting a refund. What if the swim was cancelled on race morning, or if the bike was shortened? 

3) I generally find the longer the email exchange goes, the worse it  gets.  The race owner said you can switch to another race, and I would leave it at that. I wouldn't have responded back. 



2011-05-18 9:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)

F1longhorn - 2011-05-17 9:04 PM Do the run course twice....problem solved.

x2, pardon the pun.  As you approach the finish, stay to the left, stop about a foot short of the timing mat, smile, then turn around and run it again.  Worst they could do is DQ you.

2011-05-18 9:56 AM
in reply to: #3505432

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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)
juneapple - 2011-05-18 7:10 AM

Given the circumstances, however, I'd just run two more miles at the end of the event to meet my own goals. 

 

x2

 

At the end of the day, 2 miles won't matter one bit.



Edited by ponyup 2011-05-18 9:57 AM
2011-05-18 10:18 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)
iOrlando - 2011-05-18 7:28 AM

1) We are talking about a difference between 2 miles and 4 miles.   In my view, the difference between the two is so miniscule, what is the point of causing a ruckus over this?  I think that is why the race owner sounded a little annoyed.  In the big grand scheme of things, it wont matter one bit for your overall tri training that the race is 2 miles, and not 4 miles.   

2) Races do change distances and courses, even on race day, so you really can't get set on any particular set of parameters to the point of wanting a refund. What if the swim was cancelled on race morning, or if the bike was shortened? 

3) I generally find the longer the email exchange goes, the worse it  gets.  The race owner said you can switch to another race, and I would leave it at that. I wouldn't have responded back. 

 

 

Of course two miles isn't going to make a huge difference and I'm fully aware that race distances change. However, in this case, the race distance didn't change...it was posted incorrectly. And if you're insinuating that my whole grief is about the run distance I'm afraid you've completely missed the point. I did look for other events that I wanted to do, but they were all of equal or less distances. As mentioned, I already have paid for another event they direct...That's 2 out of the 5 events they had listed from May to October. I would say that alone is enough for a little more leniency...The one race that he could have refunded so I could attend another race in July cost him the 4 or 5 races that I could have done over the year.

 

I respect your opinion, but I think you're either missing my point, or don't have a great handle on proper customer service...

2011-05-18 10:21 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)
kagoscuba - 2011-05-18 8:42 AM

F1longhorn - 2011-05-17 9:04 PM Do the run course twice....problem solved.

x2, pardon the pun.  As you approach the finish, stay to the left, stop about a foot short of the timing mat, smile, then turn around and run it again.  Worst they could do is DQ you.



Ha. Do it, let us know how it turns out.

yeah, you know, I would be a little pissed. I think you should get your money back. The guy is being a .

That said, RDing is a thankless job, a lot of folks do it to make a buck, and I think it can be tough to make a buck doing it. Buddy is probably doing this on a tight budget and really doesn't want to lose your fee. Not an excuse but a reason.

2011-05-18 10:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)

F1longhorn - 2011-05-17 6:04 PM Do the run course twice....problem solved.

+1.

Once they remove the timing chip, go ahead and run the course again.

Unfortunately, your issue is so deep now that the only way to remove the resentment towards each other is for one of you to be humble and seek reconciliation...and honestly, posting the issue on the internet with the intentions of gathering the villagers isn't the way to do that.  Perhaps it was a complete mistake and Since this isn't a qualifier race or Certified race in any way...neither your nor the RD deserve to be burned at the stake for it.  Just let it go and accept the fact you are both people and people screw up.

Honestly, it would have been wise to check out the event website instead of taking a 3rd party registration site as gospel.  If you had, you would have seen the conflicting information and been able to deal with it appropriately. 

Don't get me wrong, I think the situation sucks...but these things happen in life...and be grateful it is just a race and not a house.

My wife and I have children (2 and 4).  We trade off who pushes the stroller in races. If she runs with the stroller it is a big burden on her...so there have been multiple races in which I have turned a 5k into a 10k race.  I cross the finish line, remove my chip, and run back to take the stroller from her and then run the stroller back to the finish line to meet her.

 



Edited by lifejustice 2011-05-18 11:04 AM


2011-05-18 11:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)

F1longhorn - 2011-05-17 8:04 PM Do the run course twice....problem solved.

 

This was going to be my suggestion too. Kiss

There are many times I've done a short race just to have fun, only to go out and run longer afterwards. In the scheme of things, 2 less run miles should not have a huge impact on your ultimate training... but if you feel you must, go out and run another 2 after the race.

2011-05-18 11:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)
GoodStash - 2011-05-18 10:18 AM
iOrlando - 2011-05-18 7:28 AM

1) We are talking about a difference between 2 miles and 4 miles.   In my view, the difference between the two is so miniscule, what is the point of causing a ruckus over this?  I think that is why the race owner sounded a little annoyed.  In the big grand scheme of things, it wont matter one bit for your overall tri training that the race is 2 miles, and not 4 miles.   

2) Races do change distances and courses, even on race day, so you really can't get set on any particular set of parameters to the point of wanting a refund. What if the swim was cancelled on race morning, or if the bike was shortened? 

3) I generally find the longer the email exchange goes, the worse it  gets.  The race owner said you can switch to another race, and I would leave it at that. I wouldn't have responded back. 

 

 

Of course two miles isn't going to make a huge difference and I'm fully aware that race distances change. However, in this case, the race distance didn't change...it was posted incorrectly. And if you're insinuating that my whole grief is about the run distance I'm afraid you've completely missed the point. I did look for other events that I wanted to do, but they were all of equal or less distances. As mentioned, I already have paid for another event they direct...That's 2 out of the 5 events they had listed from May to October. I would say that alone is enough for a little more leniency...The one race that he could have refunded so I could attend another race in July cost him the 4 or 5 races that I could have done over the year.

 

I respect your opinion, but I think you're either missing my point, or don't have a great handle on proper customer service...

I would finish out the events you've already registered for... and then avoid those events in the future.

2011-05-18 11:08 AM
in reply to: #3504960

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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)

I think this is all about the RDs attitude.

He could have said "So sorry dude, I will try to get that fixed. Unfortunately, you are already registered so I can't give you a refund. I hope you do the race and enjoy it. Thanks for bringing this to my attention."

 

2011-05-18 11:18 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)
KeriKadi - 2011-05-18 11:08 AM

I think this is all about the RDs attitude.

He could have said "So sorry dude, I will try to get that fixed. Unfortunately, you are already registered so I can't give you a refund. I hope you do the race and enjoy it. Thanks for bringing this to my attention."

 

Exactly.  It's all in how you say it.  The guy was proved to be wrong and didn't even apologize.  Pizz-poor customer service!  I would avoid his events in the future if he can't be reasonable.

2011-05-18 11:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)

This is a small company in our area. His races are at a YMCA or a fitness center in subdivisions with pool swims. This generally leads to a sprint distance race. I agree with others that if you goal is to run longer, than do so.  Bartlett is an exception.

I am sure if Mark were to step back and reflect on the fact that you are new to this he may have responded differently. Generally, RDs do not refund race fees but may offer entry into another race. This is what he did.

In our area, RedRockCo will put on the best events. Summer is fast approaching, so the spring race season is over. Riorio mentioned Dueces Wild and Mountain Man as races in the summer season in AZ. Look for Nathan's in Sep.



2011-05-18 11:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)
Where I see "...." is there lines edited out of his emails?  If so, could you post them in their entirety so people can make their internet judgements with all the information?  If not. . .perhaps it is what it is.  He still gave you the option of transfering to a different race, not too bad IMHO.
2011-05-18 11:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)
It's not the end of the world but... I agree that the race director should have been more simpathetic to the situation. Even if they couldn't help with the refund they don't need to be so callous about it.

Also, I think it's good to post about it. Maybe others have had similar experiences and/or maybe another RD might read this and think twice if something similar happens for their race.

Or, maybe this RD will hear about this thread and rethink their stance. Either here or the next time.
2011-05-18 2:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)

gonwalkabout03 - 2011-05-18 9:43 AM Where I see "...." is there lines edited out of his emails?  If so, could you post them in their entirety so people can make their internet judgements with all the information?  If not. . .perhaps it is what it is.  He still gave you the option of transfering to a different race, not too bad IMHO.

 

No, the e-mails are exactly how they were posted except for what I put in brackets...A lot of good advice here, and it really boils down to how he responded more so then the answer he had for me. Had he apologized for the mix-up it would have been way less of an issue. I guess the fact that he said he MIGHT allow me to transfer is okay...But considering I'd signed up for 2 of 5 events they had posted already doesn't quite make it right. Especially since they were smaller races then the one in question. Someone mentioned that I needed to check the site, but the "more info" link directed me to the active.com site. This is only my 2nd race so I didn't even think about double checking to make sure it was correct...Lesson learned.

2011-05-19 8:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)
Mark is a friend of mine. He's very well known in Phoenix tri circles, and most know he's kind of gruff. I don't think he meant to be a jerk, but his emails come off that way. I wouldn't sweat this, but that's just me.
2011-05-19 8:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)
briderdt - 2011-05-17 10:51 PM
ajusf16 - 2011-05-17 8:11 PM
briderdt - 2011-05-17 10:53 PM
jmcconne - 2011-05-17 7:15 PM

Mark should have contacted Active.com and gotten it taken care of (at the very least tried).  Especially in a world with the Internet, it is all about customer service.   Do the race as a training day, and make sure you let all your tri buddies know if they have a choice they should pick another company. Just by posting this, I know myself and likely many others will be very wary of doing any events put on by this company.

And don't be surprised if, at some point in the not-too-distant future, you have significantly fewer local races to choose from.

What if it was billed As a 13 mile run but they were offering 6.2? Would he be able to gripe then?I support the little man but they also have to do what's right.

You apparently missed my point entirely -- if you start a trial-by-internet frenzy and rally the community to boycott events, don't be surprised if the events, or maybe even an entire race company (with all their events), disappear.

We're not that big of a community, racers and RDs, so let's try to help each other out. There's (or should be) a symbiotic relationship here.

So because the racing community is small in this case the Racer should bow to the Race Director?  I would assume that you did not mean it this way but your statement comes across as "You need me as the RD more than I need you".  If the RD cancels or stops organizing races because of poor turnout in part due to being "gruff", as someone else pointed out and is supported by his emails.  Then I would expect that another RD would jump in to fill the void. 



2011-05-19 8:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)
Batlou - 2011-05-19 6:28 AM
briderdt - 2011-05-17 10:51 PM
ajusf16 - 2011-05-17 8:11 PM
briderdt - 2011-05-17 10:53 PM
jmcconne - 2011-05-17 7:15 PM

Mark should have contacted Active.com and gotten it taken care of (at the very least tried).  Especially in a world with the Internet, it is all about customer service.   Do the race as a training day, and make sure you let all your tri buddies know if they have a choice they should pick another company. Just by posting this, I know myself and likely many others will be very wary of doing any events put on by this company.

And don't be surprised if, at some point in the not-too-distant future, you have significantly fewer local races to choose from.

What if it was billed As a 13 mile run but they were offering 6.2? Would he be able to gripe then?I support the little man but they also have to do what's right.

You apparently missed my point entirely -- if you start a trial-by-internet frenzy and rally the community to boycott events, don't be surprised if the events, or maybe even an entire race company (with all their events), disappear.

We're not that big of a community, racers and RDs, so let's try to help each other out. There's (or should be) a symbiotic relationship here.

So because the racing community is small in this case the Racer should bow to the Race Director?  I would assume that you did not mean it this way but your statement comes across as "You need me as the RD more than I need you".  If the RD cancels or stops organizing races because of poor turnout in part due to being "gruff", as someone else pointed out and is supported by his emails.  Then I would expect that another RD would jump in to fill the void. 

How excited would you be to enter a market where the businesses are closing?

2011-05-19 8:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)

Most small RD's are local and as you pointed out it's a tight knit community.  I would venture to guess that if RD was losing Customers an enterprising RD would be aware of why.  While an outsider might not wan't to venture into that market there would certainly be a local person that would be willing to fill in.  It sounds like you did mean to say that racers need RD's more than RD's need racers.  I think we would just have to agree to disagree on this one.

2011-05-19 9:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)
Some of you are way too nice! This guys paid a significant amount of money to participate in an event that was misrepresented at the registration site. The RD's response is way beyond the bounds of acceptable. If it was me, I would dispute the charge and never do another race put on by this RD. Of course, that is easy for me to say since we have a thriving triathlon community in the Atlanta area and have many races to pick and choose from.
2011-05-19 10:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)
briderdt - 2011-05-19 8:40 AM

How excited would you be to enter a market where the businesses are closing?

Very excited, if demand was strong and businesses were exiting because they weren't able to provide a quality product to meet that demand.
2011-05-19 10:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)
the bear - 2011-05-19 10:15 AM
briderdt - 2011-05-19 8:40 AM

How excited would you be to enter a market where the businesses are closing?

Very excited, if demand was strong and businesses were exiting because they weren't able to provide a quality product to meet that demand.

 

^^^^Exactly! 



2011-05-19 6:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)

Slidell4life - 2011-05-19 6:05 AM Mark is a friend of mine. He's very well known in Phoenix tri circles, and most know he's kind of gruff. I don't think he meant to be a jerk, but his emails come off that way. I wouldn't sweat this, but that's just me.

 

I suppose gruff could be a way to describe it...I, however, would choose to use the word unprofessional. I've heard good things about this race organizer which is why I looked them up to begin with. I won't do another race with this company as long as I can help it, but at the same time I'm not gonna try to convince people not to do his races either. In fact, just yesterday I referred a guy to the exact race in question.

I'm not out here trying to be a jerk and my post here was just a vent to a few fellow triathletes...A majority of which aren't even from AZ. I thought I was being very polite with this guy at first and all I expected was for a business owner to do the same. Maybe teach your friend, Mark, a thing or two about proper customer service....

2011-05-19 6:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)
Like I said, he's not for everyone. He teaches a triathlon training class at the local community college. He's great in that environment, bring TONS of my friends into the sport. I think he's introduced hundreds of people to the sport in the last 10 years through his class alone. He runs VERY kid-friendly races, which I love. I just think he doesn't communicate well over email.
2011-05-24 10:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Am I being completely out of line here?...(very wordy)

nm



Edited by ltoson 2011-05-24 10:54 PM
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