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2011-06-03 12:52 PM

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Adrian, MI
Subject: Auto Bailout

I'm so happy to see that GM and Chrysler are making deep inroads in paying back their bailout debt.   The jobs saved here in the hard hit midwest thanks to bailout - inmeasurable (and this is not counting what the nation would have paid in employment benefits for those laid off). 

As a democrat I was on the fence on the bailout... but now I don't see how you can't say this was a good decision. 

It's good to see the big three turning profits again!

I'm sure I will get flamed by some   I'm just happy to see the midwest making a comeback.



Edited by fromer 2011-06-03 12:56 PM


2011-06-03 1:03 PM
in reply to: #3531237

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Pro
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McKinney, TX
Subject: RE: Auto Bailout

Fiat buys 52% stake in Chrysler....government takes a $1.3 Billion dollar hit. yup....great to see


2011-06-03 1:30 PM
in reply to: #3531237

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Master
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Boynton Beach, FL
Subject: RE: Auto Bailout

Ford managed to do just fine without bailout...   Unions have ruined the auto industry as we know it in this Country and proof was the way the were handled during the restructuring.   I have never seen creditors jumped in a bankruptcy proceeding the way it happened in this case in favor of the unions.   That has set a horrible track record moving forward and was all about votes.  Creditors were not getting much sympathy in this case from general public, but Obama burned a big whole with this move.  

Now I am glad that jobs were saved and in the parts of the US where could be said needed it most.   However, I can't sit back and say that we would not be better off in the long-term if we would have allowed the free market to run it's course.   Those jobs would have perhaps been with a different company, but not all gone forever.   

2 cents.  

2011-06-03 1:57 PM
in reply to: #3531312

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Menomonee Falls, WI
Subject: RE: Auto Bailout
You might want to take a closer look at the numbers before buying into the mythical "GM turnaround".

The reported $3.2 billion "profit" actually cost taxpayers nearly $60 billion-- and even then most of the "profit" was due to the one-time sale of one of GM's financial companies.

As usual with this administration, the reported figures deviate far from the real ones.

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/05/19/051911-opinions-column-gm-d...



Edited by scoobysdad 2011-06-03 2:22 PM
2011-06-03 2:01 PM
in reply to: #3531393

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Subject: RE: Auto Bailout
scoobysdad - 2011-06-03 1:57 PM You might want to take a closer look at the numbers before buying into the mythical "GM turnaround". The reported $3.2 billion "profit" actually cost taxpayers nearly $60 billion-- and even then most of the "profit" was due to the one-time sale of one of GM financial companies. As usual with this any administration, the reported figures deviate far from the real ones. http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/05/19/051911-opinions-column-gm-d...


Fixed.  Tongue out
2011-06-03 3:47 PM
in reply to: #3531237


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Subject: RE: Auto Bailout

Well said Scoobysdad...

I am proud to see the product line that Ford has now, in my opinion GM still has a long way to go, but Ford is making some cars that people will want to buy and not just because they are American cars. I'm 37 and this past year was the first time that I ever wanted to buy an American car because the car was actually desirable, not jsut because it was made here.

Keep it coming USA!



2011-06-03 4:29 PM
in reply to: #3531237

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Subject: RE: Auto Bailout

Today's prediction of the current cost to the Taxpayer for the bailout, which was originally $80B, is now about $16B.  (Equivalent to about 4-6 weeks in Iraq under the Bush admin)

I don't know the numbers, but I expect the number of american autoworker jobs that were saved is well over 100,000. Include all the dealerships for Chrysler, Jeep, Buick, Caddie, Chevrolet, GMC in every city in america that would be shuttered.  All the employees of those dealerships.  The Truckers that hauled the parts to the factories and the cars to the showrooms, the subcontractors and suppliers, the sandwich shops next to the dealerships, etc etc.  All those people are still employed (and paying taxes), instead of being on unenmployement and needing assistance.  Plus, it retains a manufacturing base in the US, one of the few, that actually exports goods to other countries.  GM sells more cars in China than they do in the US. 

Ideologically, I'm not in favor of the taxpayer bailing out companies.  But, I'm a reasonable fiscal conservative- and I let the math speak for itself.  This turned out to be a wise investment in our country- even if it does 'cost' the taxpayer $20B, the damage would have cost 10 times that amount in the long run.

2011-06-03 4:57 PM
in reply to: #3531393

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Subject: RE: Auto Bailout

scoobysdad - 2011-06-03 2:57 PM You might want to take a closer look at the numbers before buying into the mythical "GM turnaround". The reported $3.2 billion "profit" actually cost taxpayers nearly $60 billion-- and even then most of the "profit" was due to the one-time sale of one of GM's financial companies. As usual with this administration, the reported figures deviate far from the real ones. http://www.thedaily.com/page/2011/05/19/051911-opinions-column-gm-d...

Use to be 60 million.  According to The Wall Street Journal, the debt is 14 billion - with the good chance to drop even more.  With hundreds of thousands of jobs saved. 

http://online.wsj.com/video/news-hub-auto-bailout-costs-taxpayers-14-billion/C797D01E-2563-4BE6-B26B-ED7EDD924BCA.html?KEYWORDS=auto+bailout

2011-06-03 10:20 PM
in reply to: #3531237

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Subject: RE: Auto Bailout

Bankruptcy doesn't mean a complete liquidation.  It is a re-organization of a company assets.  Didn't GM and Chrysler end up going through bankruptcy anyways? 

So.....my question are: would the massive layoffs have happened without the bailout?  And, since they both ended up going through bankruptcy anways, was the bailout necessary?



Edited by hamiltks10 2011-06-03 10:21 PM
2011-06-04 7:18 PM
in reply to: #3531237

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Subject: RE: Auto Bailout
fromer - 2011-06-03 1:52 PM

I'm so happy to see that GM and Chrysler are making deep inroads in paying back their bailout debt.   The jobs saved here in the hard hit midwest thanks to bailout - inmeasurable (and this is not counting what the nation would have paid in employment benefits for those laid off). 

As a democrat I was on the fence on the bailout... but now I don't see how you can't say this was a good decision. 

It's good to see the big three turning profits again!

I'm sure I will get flamed by some   I'm just happy to see the midwest making a comeback.

Like!

The Midwest is such an awesome part of Real America. I've always liked Midwesterners. 

I've never owned an American automaker's car, but with the progress that they are making in the quality of their cars that might change in the foreseeable future.

2011-06-04 10:41 PM
in reply to: #3531992

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Subject: RE: Auto Bailout
hamiltks10 - 2011-06-03 11:20 PM

Bankruptcy doesn't mean a complete liquidation.  It is a re-organization of a company assets.  Didn't GM and Chrysler end up going through bankruptcy anyways? 

So.....my question are: would the massive layoffs have happened without the bailout?  And, since they both ended up going through bankruptcy anways, was the bailout necessary?

Well, now I'm outed, but this is part of what I do for a lving:  Help companies change when they need to. And I can answer for the financial community that yes, the layoffs would have happened, and been more acute, without a bailout.

Companies are built to operate in a certain way, at a certain size, at a certain pace. Rewards systems, culture, and the people in that structure as all invested in that sorta work ecosystem, if you will.  Due to some bad decisions, and the economy, that ecosystem changed for the automakers. They needed to respond, quickly, to some stuff that needed response. 

Now...how to respond?  It's pretty easy to change policy and process to get square. Not so easy to swap out all your people - most firms won't do that because 1) it puts the current business at risk, and 2) it gives everyone who might ever want to work there the heebie-jeebies that employment is a short term idea.

Bankruptcy provides a unique "out" for the people issue - magically, it's OK to lay people off, cut pensions, whatever. And all those cuts are designed to get the firm down to a reasonable level of expense, for the revenue they generate. You get a a hall pass, politically. That aside, back to your key questions:

Without a bailout, the cuts would have been too deep, IMHO, for GM to sustain itself as a global player, and viable global entity. We can talk all day about whether they should remain global or have retreated into being a regional player (a-la-renault, who does just fine, and fiat, who IS regional but is starting to have global aspirations).



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