General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Solely training OWS - any negatives??? Rss Feed  
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2011-06-21 6:47 AM

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Subject: Solely training OWS - any negatives???

Based on the reading I've done, it seems that training OWS is important, bordering on crucial. Would it be a problem doing all swim training OWS?  (it's free...)

One issue: How in the world would one measure distance??? 



2011-06-21 6:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???
to measure distance use mapmyrun.com use the satelite images and swim to something you would recognize when out swimming ( a dock, point of land etc.)
2011-06-21 7:25 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???
I recently did a HIM and trained soley in OW.  I used google maps to figure out an approximate distance.  There were so many uspides...including crappy, windy weather which forced me to swim in chop several times.  The only downside I guess was that I didn't really do any sprint/interval work like you can at a pool with clear 25m lanes--I just put my time in swimming, swimming, swimming.  While Michael Phelps has nothing to worry about, I felt it was a great way to train.
2011-06-21 7:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???
Personally I think it's not a good idea. You swim in open water to practice sighting, get used to your wetsuit, and maybe develop comfort in open water if you need it. You practice in the pool to get faster. Intervals are very important for swimming. You can do them in the open water I suppose, but I think the pool is going to offer more improvement. Personally I do 90% of my swims in the pool and maybe once every other week go outside to work on sighting.
2011-06-21 8:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???

I'll agree that drills, and interval work is easier done with a wall, though I suppose it could be done between docks etc.

It is crucial for your first few Tris to be comfortable in the open water, and if you don't have a gym membership, or want to invest that money in bike equipment etc, then I think it is fine to just train in the open water.  When you get serious about speed then you might want to work with a coach for a while to improve your form at the pool

One way to track your distance is the garmin in the swim cap trick that DC Rainmaker explains here: http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2007/09/how-to-swim-with-your-garmin-forerunner.html

I've been using it and it seems to do a good job of tracking my distance.

2011-06-21 8:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???
You can measure distance using a Garmin 310x (put it under a swim cap not on your wrist). But, I found that the best training I had was when I was able to get into a 50m pool a few times before the last race.


2011-06-21 8:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???

Another downside not mentioned is that if you only do OWS, it's more difficult to gauge progress.  Intervals in a pool allow you to more accurately measure improvements.  If you only do OWS, it's possible to put in a lot of hours and never know that you're no faster than you were 6 months earlier.  In a pool, you know sooner if you're stagnating, so you can make changes to your training as needed.

2011-06-21 8:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???
TriMyBest - 2011-06-21 10:10 PM

Another downside not mentioned is that if you only do OWS, it's more difficult to gauge progress.  Intervals in a pool allow you to more accurately measure improvements.  If you only do OWS, it's possible to put in a lot of hours and never know that you're no faster than you were 6 months earlier.  In a pool, you know sooner if you're stagnating, so you can make changes to your training as needed.

I think it'd be pretty unlikely, if you put in a lot of hours in OWS (especially in different conditions) and NOT get faster.

That said, if one is quite serious about training and especially wanting to sharpen swim training, pool's the way to go. (Serious OWS swimmers put in many, many hours in the pool).

If you're like me and essentially don't have pool options, and even if you did going up and down that little black line makes you want to shoot yourself, knock yourself out with the OWS.

2011-06-21 8:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???
I like to think of it like this: running on TM is different than running outdoors, biking on the trainer is different than biking on the open road, swimming in the pool is different than swimming in the OWS. Most of our competitions are outdoors, why wouldn't you practice were your going to compete?
2011-06-21 9:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???

JoshR - 2011-06-21 7:39 AM Personally I think it's not a good idea. You swim in open water to practice sighting, get used to your wetsuit, and maybe develop comfort in open water if you need it. You practice in the pool to get faster. Intervals are very important for swimming. You can do them in the open water I suppose, but I think the pool is going to offer more improvement. Personally I do 90% of my swims in the pool and maybe once every other week go outside to work on sighting.

Huh?  You can do intervals in open water training. You can go fast in open water training.  Claiming open water is simply for sighting, wetsuit comfort and swim comfort is pure folly.  

To the poster - you will have a distinct advantage over pool swimmers most likely.  This all assumes you are a decent swimmer to begin with.  If not, it's sort of hard to predict.

2011-06-21 9:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???
Swimming OW is important, but unless you are going to swim in a pack with 200 of your closest friends, each taking turns kicking each other, you are not getting the same "race day" experience.

Seriously, the only negative I see is safety. Most community pools have a lifeguard and it can be a pain in the %$& to find a nice big OW spot where its guarded and you can do some serious distance. One place I like to swim is guarded and has a big area so it is possible to swim rope to rope and time myself. It has all the chop I'd expect on race day. Downside is its only guarded between 9-5 in peak summer.

I've seen so many tri swimmers need to be resuced over the years during races, particularly when water is choppy. I know of two fatalities in local races during the swims. Safety is important.


2011-06-21 9:32 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???

I can't stand swimming in pools at the same level many on here can't stand treadmills.

In terms of measuring progress and doing intervals, I don't get how you can say those can't be done in OW.  I have docks/buoys/landmarks/etc at many distances from ~50-500 yards, and I know that I go to dock A in x:xx and if I get there and back faster this year (or next week) I'm making progress.  I swim OW sets pretty much just like most everyone else swims pool swims.  The distances may not be exactly accurate, but they are consistent week to week since the docks don't move.

2011-06-21 9:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???

JohnP_NY - 2011-06-21 9:26 AM Seriously, the only negative I see is safety. Most community pools have a lifeguard and it can be a pain in the %$& to find a nice big OW spot where its guarded and you can do some serious distance.

This is a good point about safety.  I'm a good swimmer and I never swim alone in OW.  I always have a kayak escort in my OW training.  We stay within 20 yards of shore and try to avoid heavily boated areas.  Also carry an emergency whistle and review the route and areas to avoid before every training swim.  

2011-06-21 9:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???
H20 Killer - 2011-06-21 9:19 AM

To the poster - you will have a distinct advantage over pool swimmers most likely.  This all assumes you are a decent swimmer to begin with.  If not, it's sort of hard to predict.



This. You can do all the intervals and drills you want, but if you uncomfortable in open water it doesn't really matter how fast you are in the pool.

Knock yourself out.

In my experience, I can pick up top end speed in the pool, but it doesn't really translate to my open water time. On the flip side, I do so much open water swimming that I am unfazed by rough water and less then ideal conditions. In fact, the more adverse to conditions the better I am in comparison to the rest of the field. In calm water I am solidly middle of the pack. In rough water I have done as well as top 5% just because I don't get slowed down while the rest of the field struggles.

I swim in the pool during the cold months and swim exclusively open water when the lake near my house is warm enough. Usually beginning of June through September.
2011-06-21 9:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???

OWS with friends can be a lot like a group ride, pure fun, and a great way to test yourself against stronger people.

Face it, getting faster and stronger is more about loving what you're doing than anything else. If hitting the open water helps you increase your time in the water, do it!

Here's the way I look at it: for all the rigid conventional wisdom about training you read in forums, as if we're all aspiring NCAA athletes, I have never done a structured workout on the bike or trained with modern electronics, yet I win my ag split most of the time. So hit the masters class, hit the open water, whatever. Get out there and do it and have fun!

2011-06-21 9:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???
...and in terms of keeping track of your progress down to the 1/10th of a second, it's not like you won't find a pool every couple of months to rip a few sprints.


2011-06-21 9:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???
Agree with the poster above. You should do whatever makes training/racing more enjoyable for you. However if you want to maximize your training, a pool is going to help you more than OWS, IMO. Most open water pro's don't train exclusively in open water for a reason.
2011-06-21 9:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???
There was a similar discussion over here
2011-06-21 10:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???

JoshR - 2011-06-21 10:55 AM

You should do whatever makes training/racing more enjoyable for you.

 

Wait a second... we're supposed to be enjoying this? Crap.

2011-06-21 10:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???

I say go for it!

In fact I'm jealous, wish it was an option for me. Yes the pool is great for drills etc, but how many people spend hours on bilateral breathing and making sure their stroke is long and streamlined getting fantastic times ..... only to get in a lake or ocean and switch to a choppy stroke breathing every 2 strokes? Yes swimming is swimming but OWS is a different animal, my gym pool pretty much stays the same unless the heating breaks or there's a code brown!

Rich

 

2011-06-21 10:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???
Another overlooked aspect of pool training is the incredibly busy masters swims. A lot of my Saturday morning masters swims have 4-6 people per lane. If you've ever swam in a crappy shallow pool with 25-35 people all swimming simultaneously, it is i very similar to a hectic open water swim. The lanes are narrow so you are constantly trying not to hit people going by, and the waves kick up pretty good and really make me work on what I consider my open water stroke. This may just be in my crappy pool, but it is very noticeable to me.


2011-06-21 10:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???

OWS is to Pool as Running outdoors is to a Treadmill.

I would much rather OWS than swim in a pool.  I get sick of having to do flip turns every time I get into a groove.  I get sick of trying to keep track of my laps.  I get sick of old men using the air dryer to massage their genitals.

I like to get into a routine and go for it.  You can't do that in a pool.  If you want to practice your sprints, go ahead and get in a pool...But if you have the option of getting in OW, I would stick with OW. 

 



Edited by lifejustice 2011-06-21 10:33 AM
2011-06-21 10:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but safety is important.  My SCUBA training has conditioned me never to enter the water alone.  But, none of my friends do triathlons, so it's me myself and I. 

Both have their pros/cons, but OWS seems more enjoyable just because you have less people, you can swim uninterrupted for the entire race distance.  You can pace yourself, get use to sighting, getting use to the disorientation you have when you leave the water.  In Michigan, winter is for pool, summer for lake.  But I still do pool at least once a week.

The lake I swim at is a big private lake and they just put up signs saying residence only.  There are two dozen empty lots on this lake so I usually just park there and walk down.  Nobody has confronted me yet and I swim early enough that boats are not out.  Just don't see why they get so territorial. 

2011-06-21 10:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???
lifejustice - 2011-06-21 10:31 AM

OWS is to Pool as Running outdoors is to a Treadmill.

Untrue.  Running on a treadmill is much much easier than running on pavement.  Swimming in a pool is no easier than outdoors.

2011-06-21 11:16 AM
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Subject: RE: Solely training OWS - any negatives???
H20 Killer - 2011-06-21 10:58 AM
lifejustice - 2011-06-21 10:31 AM

OWS is to Pool as Running outdoors is to a Treadmill.

Untrue.  Running on a treadmill is much much easier than running on pavement.  Swimming in a pool is no easier than outdoors.

 

Tell that to my swim times.

 

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