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2011-06-23 5:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant

DH , she's racing the 13-14 year olds this year. Last year she lost her spot on one of the A relay teams to a girl who worked her butt off and took it from her. The other girl got faster and earned the spot. That was a lesson learned. She sucked it up and cheered for her team mates in the final meet last year.



2011-06-23 9:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant
mdg2003 - 2011-06-23 6:59 PM

DH , she's racing the 13-14 year olds this year. Last year she lost her spot on one of the A relay teams to a girl who worked her butt off and took it from her. The other girl got faster and earned the spot. That was a lesson learned. She sucked it up and cheered for her team mates in the final meet last year.

Seeing as how you are saying she is racing the 13-14 year olds, could it be that she is younger than the girl who took her spot?  Could seniority be an issue the coach is dealing with in a way?  If the coach knows your daughter will swim on this team next season, but the other girl will be moving up to the next level, is the coach allowing the other girl to race before she moves on to the next level?  I'm not saying it's right...but could it be something the coach is factoring in?

2011-06-23 10:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant
mdg2003 - 2011-06-23 4:20 PM

jmk-brooklyn - 2011-06-23 1:07 PM
lisac957 - 2011-06-23 12:49 PM

jmk-brooklyn - 2011-06-23 12:32 PM I just have to say that I think it's pretty ironic that a bunch of adults who compete in a sport where everyone gets a finishers medal can argue so vocally against a little kid getting rewarded for her effort.

Apples and oranges.

The "reward" in our sport is not the finisher's medal. It would be something more along the lines of a podium spot or Kona Qualify.

A more appropriate comparison would be that just because I put in a tremendous amount of "effort" in training (and maybe my Dad is friends with the RD) I should get a spot at Kona or be able to ask Chrissie Wellington to "be a good sport" and let me race instead of her.

 

I would argue that that it is not your idea of a reward, as a gifted athlete and someone who has successfully completed lots of triathlons and probably has a pile of finishers medals in a drawer somewhere. To many other people, the finishers medal is a precisely a reward for their effort and it means a lot to them. My point is that there is more to youth sports than simply the scoreboard results at the end of the game. And there is a large range of options between “pure meritocracy” and “everyone’s the MVP”. Coaching youth sports is difficult, precisely because it isn’t always a pure meritocracy and shouldn’t be. If it was as simple as, “you run your best players out there every day”, it would be a comparatively easy job. But there is more to it than that, and for coaches to be second-guessed and accused of favoritism and corruption simply for trying to do what they feel is in the best interests of the kids they’re entrusted with, makes it that much more difficult. Obviously, this coach must be doing something right to have a team that is this strong and competitive top to bottom. Maybe he deserves the benefit of the doubt? We all know that we've only heard one side of the story here, right? Maybe the dad should have at least asked him for an explanation instead of going on a rant and accusing him of being dishonest? Maybe the mom should have let the daughter and the coach work it out instead of telling him off? And wanting to “kick the other parents”? I don’t even know what to say about.

Might listen a bit to yourself where you mentioned knowing "only one side of the story." Looks to me like you made a judgement about a situation in which you know nothing. Added stuff that did not happen and then felt a need to get righteous about it. Flip this around and apply it to your kid. Tell me that you would allow an adult to sandbag your kids efforts at any endeavor, be it sports, school, music, you name it. If you say you would let it happen to your kid and be OK with it, I think you're not being completely honest or your parenting skills might be a tad on the rusty side. Which one is it sport?



Sorry, I don't get your point. What did I add that didn't happen? You accused the coach of cheating, didn't you? We only know your side, don't we? You said you wanted to kick the other parents, didnt you? I get why you're upset but I don't think you handled it as well as you could have. if you don't want to hear people's opinions then don't post angry rants on the Internet.
2011-06-23 10:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant
If your daughter has been cheated, the entire swim team knows it. It will mean more to her that her friends think she was ripped-off than anything her parents would do.

Calmly discuss this situation at the next meeting, present your findings (not your assumptions) and asked that the rules be clarified so no one is put in this situation again. If you go in as an 'angry parent' you will not get much support from the other parents. Every parent wants their kid to win, but they definitely want the competition to be fair. Stress the fairness of competition as it applies to the entire team and the support of the other parents will help carry your case.

2011-06-24 12:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant
jmk-brooklyn - 2011-06-23 10:03 PM
mdg2003 - 2011-06-23 4:20 PM
jmk-brooklyn - 2011-06-23 1:07 PM
lisac957 - 2011-06-23 12:49 PM

jmk-brooklyn - 2011-06-23 12:32 PM I just have to say that I think it's pretty ironic that a bunch of adults who compete in a sport where everyone gets a finishers medal can argue so vocally against a little kid getting rewarded for her effort.

Apples and oranges.

The "reward" in our sport is not the finisher's medal. It would be something more along the lines of a podium spot or Kona Qualify.

A more appropriate comparison would be that just because I put in a tremendous amount of "effort" in training (and maybe my Dad is friends with the RD) I should get a spot at Kona or be able to ask Chrissie Wellington to "be a good sport" and let me race instead of her.

 

I would argue that that it is not your idea of a reward, as a gifted athlete and someone who has successfully completed lots of triathlons and probably has a pile of finishers medals in a drawer somewhere. To many other people, the finishers medal is a precisely a reward for their effort and it means a lot to them. My point is that there is more to youth sports than simply the scoreboard results at the end of the game. And there is a large range of options between “pure meritocracy” and “everyone’s the MVP”. Coaching youth sports is difficult, precisely because it isn’t always a pure meritocracy and shouldn’t be. If it was as simple as, “you run your best players out there every day”, it would be a comparatively easy job. But there is more to it than that, and for coaches to be second-guessed and accused of favoritism and corruption simply for trying to do what they feel is in the best interests of the kids they’re entrusted with, makes it that much more difficult. Obviously, this coach must be doing something right to have a team that is this strong and competitive top to bottom. Maybe he deserves the benefit of the doubt? We all know that we've only heard one side of the story here, right? Maybe the dad should have at least asked him for an explanation instead of going on a rant and accusing him of being dishonest? Maybe the mom should have let the daughter and the coach work it out instead of telling him off? And wanting to “kick the other parents”? I don’t even know what to say about.

Might listen a bit to yourself where you mentioned knowing "only one side of the story." Looks to me like you made a judgement about a situation in which you know nothing. Added stuff that did not happen and then felt a need to get righteous about it. Flip this around and apply it to your kid. Tell me that you would allow an adult to sandbag your kids efforts at any endeavor, be it sports, school, music, you name it. If you say you would let it happen to your kid and be OK with it, I think you're not being completely honest or your parenting skills might be a tad on the rusty side. Which one is it sport?

Sorry, I don't get your point. What did I add that didn't happen? You accused the coach of cheating, didn't you? We only know your side, don't we? You said you wanted to kick the other parents, didnt you? I get why you're upset but I don't think you handled it as well as you could have. if you don't want to hear people's opinions then don't post angry rants on the Internet.

I think you took a bit of literary license with my statement. You haven't a clue how I've handled anything. You also seem to feel it was an angry rant. Did you think we left the front door of our trailer open and run acrost to the cement pond to give missy coach and busy parents a good talkin' to? Lucky her Diddy weren't there lest I'dd had ta whoop his azz in front of the whole trailer park....... LOL lighten up Francis!

2011-06-24 12:57 AM
in reply to: #3563916

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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant

jmk-brooklyn - 2011-06-23 10:11 AM He does get to decide, and he should be allowed to make decisions that he feels are for the good of the team without being subjected to second guessing and accusations of corruption by parents. The OP didn't mention how old these kids are, but it's not the Olympics, for goodness' sake.

 

But he didn't "decide", did he? He tried taking the easy way out, and "asked" the child to decide. A child who is trained to go with what the coach "suggests". So yes, the parents certainly have the right to look out for their child.

 

And no, it isn't the Olympics. And teaching a child that hard work and effort are rewarded should not be reserved for the Olympics.



2011-06-24 6:45 AM
in reply to: #3563842

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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant
of course the coach asked the child- because the coach knew the idea was so ridiculous that if he/she asked the parent, the parent would likely dismiss it out of line.  Stick to your guns, let one of the other kids have one of those "wonderful learning opportunities". 
2011-06-24 8:11 AM
in reply to: #3565116

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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant
mdg2003 - 2011-06-24 12:49 AM

jmk-brooklyn - 2011-06-23 10:03 PM
mdg2003 - 2011-06-23 4:20 PM
jmk-brooklyn - 2011-06-23 1:07 PM
lisac957 - 2011-06-23 12:49 PM

jmk-brooklyn - 2011-06-23 12:32 PM I just have to say that I think it's pretty ironic that a bunch of adults who compete in a sport where everyone gets a finishers medal can argue so vocally against a little kid getting rewarded for her effort.

Apples and oranges.

The "reward" in our sport is not the finisher's medal. It would be something more along the lines of a podium spot or Kona Qualify.

A more appropriate comparison would be that just because I put in a tremendous amount of "effort" in training (and maybe my Dad is friends with the RD) I should get a spot at Kona or be able to ask Chrissie Wellington to "be a good sport" and let me race instead of her.

 

I would argue that that it is not your idea of a reward, as a gifted athlete and someone who has successfully completed lots of triathlons and probably has a pile of finishers medals in a drawer somewhere. To many other people, the finishers medal is a precisely a reward for their effort and it means a lot to them. My point is that there is more to youth sports than simply the scoreboard results at the end of the game. And there is a large range of options between “pure meritocracy” and “everyone’s the MVP”. Coaching youth sports is difficult, precisely because it isn’t always a pure meritocracy and shouldn’t be. If it was as simple as, “you run your best players out there every day”, it would be a comparatively easy job. But there is more to it than that, and for coaches to be second-guessed and accused of favoritism and corruption simply for trying to do what they feel is in the best interests of the kids they’re entrusted with, makes it that much more difficult. Obviously, this coach must be doing something right to have a team that is this strong and competitive top to bottom. Maybe he deserves the benefit of the doubt? We all know that we've only heard one side of the story here, right? Maybe the dad should have at least asked him for an explanation instead of going on a rant and accusing him of being dishonest? Maybe the mom should have let the daughter and the coach work it out instead of telling him off? And wanting to “kick the other parents”? I don’t even know what to say about.

Might listen a bit to yourself where you mentioned knowing "only one side of the story." Looks to me like you made a judgement about a situation in which you know nothing. Added stuff that did not happen and then felt a need to get righteous about it. Flip this around and apply it to your kid. Tell me that you would allow an adult to sandbag your kids efforts at any endeavor, be it sports, school, music, you name it. If you say you would let it happen to your kid and be OK with it, I think you're not being completely honest or your parenting skills might be a tad on the rusty side. Which one is it sport?

Sorry, I don't get your point. What did I add that didn't happen? You accused the coach of cheating, didn't you? We only know your side, don't we? You said you wanted to kick the other parents, didnt you? I get why you're upset but I don't think you handled it as well as you could have. if you don't want to hear people's opinions then don't post angry rants on the Internet.

I think you took a bit of literary license with my statement. You haven't a clue how I've handled anything. You also seem to feel it was an angry rant. Did you think we left the front door of our trailer open and run acrost to the cement pond to give missy coach and busy parents a good talkin' to? Lucky her Diddy weren't there lest I'dd had ta whoop his azz in front of the whole trailer park....... LOL lighten up Francis!



I can see this is coming off the rails a little, so I'll be done now. Best of luck with your situation and (sincerely) good luck to your daughter in her meet.
2011-06-24 8:18 AM
in reply to: #3563752

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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant

To quote/paraphrase the Incredibles "When everyone is super no one will be." We are not equal and we should not teach our children that we are. We have equal rights under the law, but in life we are NOT all equal. We each have a unique set of skills, attributes and personalities. Happiness is found in finding the best way to utilize your set.

This is competitive swimming and a great place to learn the foregoing. Letting the other girl have the spot deprives HER of the chance to learn this. The "everybody is a winner" concept is a big FAIL to me.

To the OP: you did right.

P.S. My mother called me Francis...once!



Edited by DougRob 2011-06-24 8:24 AM
2011-06-24 9:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant
DougRob - 2011-06-24 9:18 AM

P.S. My mother called me Francis...once!

Don't Call Me Francis

2011-06-24 10:41 AM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant
jmk-brooklyn - 2011-06-24 8:11 AM
mdg2003 - 2011-06-24 12:49 AM
jmk-brooklyn - 2011-06-23 10:03 PM
mdg2003 - 2011-06-23 4:20 PM
jmk-brooklyn - 2011-06-23 1:07 PM
lisac957 - 2011-06-23 12:49 PM

jmk-brooklyn - 2011-06-23 12:32 PM I just have to say that I think it's pretty ironic that a bunch of adults who compete in a sport where everyone gets a finishers medal can argue so vocally against a little kid getting rewarded for her effort.

Apples and oranges.

The "reward" in our sport is not the finisher's medal. It would be something more along the lines of a podium spot or Kona Qualify.

A more appropriate comparison would be that just because I put in a tremendous amount of "effort" in training (and maybe my Dad is friends with the RD) I should get a spot at Kona or be able to ask Chrissie Wellington to "be a good sport" and let me race instead of her.

 

I would argue that that it is not your idea of a reward, as a gifted athlete and someone who has successfully completed lots of triathlons and probably has a pile of finishers medals in a drawer somewhere. To many other people, the finishers medal is a precisely a reward for their effort and it means a lot to them. My point is that there is more to youth sports than simply the scoreboard results at the end of the game. And there is a large range of options between “pure meritocracy” and “everyone’s the MVP”. Coaching youth sports is difficult, precisely because it isn’t always a pure meritocracy and shouldn’t be. If it was as simple as, “you run your best players out there every day”, it would be a comparatively easy job. But there is more to it than that, and for coaches to be second-guessed and accused of favoritism and corruption simply for trying to do what they feel is in the best interests of the kids they’re entrusted with, makes it that much more difficult. Obviously, this coach must be doing something right to have a team that is this strong and competitive top to bottom. Maybe he deserves the benefit of the doubt? We all know that we've only heard one side of the story here, right? Maybe the dad should have at least asked him for an explanation instead of going on a rant and accusing him of being dishonest? Maybe the mom should have let the daughter and the coach work it out instead of telling him off? And wanting to “kick the other parents”? I don’t even know what to say about.

Might listen a bit to yourself where you mentioned knowing "only one side of the story." Looks to me like you made a judgement about a situation in which you know nothing. Added stuff that did not happen and then felt a need to get righteous about it. Flip this around and apply it to your kid. Tell me that you would allow an adult to sandbag your kids efforts at any endeavor, be it sports, school, music, you name it. If you say you would let it happen to your kid and be OK with it, I think you're not being completely honest or your parenting skills might be a tad on the rusty side. Which one is it sport?

Sorry, I don't get your point. What did I add that didn't happen? You accused the coach of cheating, didn't you? We only know your side, don't we? You said you wanted to kick the other parents, didnt you? I get why you're upset but I don't think you handled it as well as you could have. if you don't want to hear people's opinions then don't post angry rants on the Internet.

I think you took a bit of literary license with my statement. You haven't a clue how I've handled anything. You also seem to feel it was an angry rant. Did you think we left the front door of our trailer open and run acrost to the cement pond to give missy coach and busy parents a good talkin' to? Lucky her Diddy weren't there lest I'dd had ta whoop his azz in front of the whole trailer park....... LOL lighten up Francis!

I can see this is coming off the rails a little, so I'll be done now. Best of luck with your situation and (sincerely) good luck to your daughter in her meet.

 Thank you and peace my friend.



2011-06-24 11:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant
Update - My daughter has secured both relay spots. The coach took her aside last night at practice and told her that her times were faster than the other girl's and to be ready to swim in Divisionals this weekend! The coach caught the other girl's "questionable exhibition swim times" entered by "someone" and tossed them out.
2011-06-24 11:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant

mdg2003 - 2011-06-24 9:05 AM Update - My daughter has secured both relay spots. The coach took her aside last night at practice and told her that her times were faster than the other girl's and to be ready to swim in Divisionals this weekend! The coach caught the other girl's "questionable exhibition swim times" entered by "someone" and tossed them out.

Sweet! Good luck to your daughter!

2011-06-24 11:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant

mdg2003 - 2011-06-25 1:05 AM Update - My daughter has secured both relay spots. The coach took her aside last night at practice and told her that her times were faster than the other girl's and to be ready to swim in Divisionals this weekend! The coach caught the other girl's "questionable exhibition swim times" entered by "someone" and tossed them out.

I'm glad this turned out well for your daughter. Did you ever have a conversation with her? Def no judgment either way, I was just wondering.

13-14 is a SCREAMINGLY important age in swimming. Girls that age are wicked fast and are really at that turning point (provided they've been swimming a few years like yours has) to decide how good they want to be (as in, looking ahead to nationals, collegiate, etc.)

2011-06-24 12:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant

I got the full scoop on the questionable swim time. Two meets back the father put his daughter in an empty lane during one of the heats. He personally timed the event as the lane timers just stood back unaware of what he was doing. The wife grabbed the time sheets from the timers and the time from the fathers stopwatch was entered in the heat results, with her name just hand written in. They called it an exhibition time. She might have even received an official win because the time he entered was so fast. We were completely unaware this was going on, but some of the other swim moms has heard they were going to do it and brought this to my wife's attention after it happened. We let it go because we figured while it seemed like douchebaggery underhanded, we knew our kid was consistently faster. The coach was in fact pressured by the other parents to put their kid on the team. This was confirmed by two other swim moms who overheard the conversation. The coach initially waffled, but made the correct decision in the end.

 Yes Yanti, we spoke to our girl. We told her that the other kid might not really be aware of what her parents were up to and to treat her as a friend. I went as far as to say that the parents might not even feel that what they did was wrong and that they just wanted the best for their kid. She didn't buy any of it, but insisted that she would not treat the other girl any differently than before. Done deal.

2011-06-24 1:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant

 

Good deal, glad your kid gets to keep the spot she worked hard to earn!



2011-06-26 6:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant

They won divisionals today. Second place team rocked and probably would have won the freestyle relay if the previously discussed substitution was made. The medly.... well they could have carried a win with me swimming a leg. Overall our team crushed the other four teams with a 350 point (unofficial as of right now) advantage.

2011-06-29 8:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant

  Final meet was last night. Our team got 4th overall out of 15. My girls relay medley won 2nd and the freestyle they took third! The relay races were 13-18 age group and the winners were seniors with one junior and they were all club swimmers. Ours were 14 and 15, with two of our girls swimming year round, so I think they did extremely well. I saw the winning team at the blocks per- race and knew we were in trouble, those girls just looked tough and they looked bored! They won by 6 seconds.

  The other girl that was the subject of this discussion displayed a lot of class yesterday. She did not make the cut for any of the races, but she showed up and cheered her friends on anyway. Kudos to her. I passed the parents walking my dog at the park last night. Sadly, Dad gave me the stink eye and opted not to respond to my greeting.  Jonah, you'd be happy to hear that I did not want to kick him, I just felt bad for him. 



Edited by mdg2003 2011-06-29 8:54 AM
2011-06-29 9:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant

mdg2003 - 2011-06-29 8:53 AM

Sadly, Dad gave me the stink eye and opted not to respond to my greeting.  Jonah, you'd be happy to hear that I did not want to kick him, I just felt bad for him. 

Wow.

 

2011-06-29 10:10 AM
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Glad things worked out for your daughter. Good to see hard work rewarded.

 

2011-06-29 10:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant

I am glad it worked out.

Unfortunately given the over-representation of douchbag/douchebaguette population in the world, dealing with these folks is a skill we will need to teach their kids.

 



2011-06-29 12:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Youth sports parents rant
Great results! Glad things worked out for everyone in the end and it seems like that girl is a good sport and good friend, even if her parents are a bit less than honorable.
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