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2011-06-25 5:12 PM

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Subject: Zone/Time/Distance conflict

Any suggestions on what I should do when I cannot achieve my plan's goals because my HR is too fast? In my MS today I was supposed to run 1.3m in 12min. in Zone1-2. I couldn't achieve that distance in Z1-2. Any suggestions on what to do in these situations? Also, is doing anything in Z1-2 really effective? I feel like I'm not pushing myself at all.

 

Thanks!



2011-06-25 8:54 PM
in reply to: #3567122

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Subject: RE: Zone/Time/Distance conflict

1. Make sure your zones are correct (in the sense that they are determined in the same way that the author of the plan intends)

2. Yes, training in every zone has an effect.  Of course, it is important to mix it up.  Different coaches have different ideas about how the mix goes.  Some say, for example, stay Z1-2 for a long time before any more intense work.  Others periodize in different ways.  (I'm partial to the latter but I'm no coach.)  If you trust the plan, stick to it.

3.  If the plan says to stay in Z2 (or whatever), then slow down enough to do so.  Pace is meaningless. Effort is what matters, and zones are intended to measure effort.  (There are issues about measuring effort with HR, but that's a different thread.)

2011-06-27 12:04 PM
in reply to: #3567122

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Subject: RE: Zone/Time/Distance conflict

I think this is the issue with HRs.  Your HR can vary tremendously from day to day for a variety of reasons.  I would say that pace is a perfect measure of effort.  If I weigh the same and run the same course on Monday as I did on Saturday then the work or effort my body body does to move at the same pace is the same.  I would assume this is why there are many pace built run programs such as McMillan, Daniels, F.I.R.S.T.

 

2011-06-27 12:52 PM
in reply to: #3567321

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Subject: RE: Zone/Time/Distance conflict
Experior - 2011-06-25 9:54 PM

3.  If the plan says to stay in Z2 (or whatever), then slow down enough to do so.  Pace is meaningless. Effort is what matters, and zones are intended to measure effort.  (There are issues about measuring effort with HR, but that's a different thread.)

Especially when running in the heat.  My HR shoots up when it is hot out.

 

2011-06-27 12:58 PM
in reply to: #3569297

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Subject: RE: Zone/Time/Distance conflict
dangremond - 2011-06-27 1:04 PM

I think this is the issue with HRs.  Your HR can vary tremendously from day to day for a variety of reasons.  I would say that pace is a perfect measure of effort.  If I weigh the same and run the same course on Monday as I did on Saturday then the work or effort my body body does to move at the same pace is the same.  I would assume this is why there are many pace built run programs such as McMillan, Daniels, F.I.R.S.T.

 

I was under the impression that they have you determine your LT, VO2Max, etc. and set up zones?  For example, McMillian has and "endurance zone" (60 and 75% of maximum HR) and a "stamina zone,"  Friel uses "Zone 2 85% to 89% of LTHR" and so on.

2011-06-27 1:31 PM
in reply to: #3569431

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Subject: RE: Zone/Time/Distance conflict
jmkizer - 2011-06-27 12:58 PM
dangremond - 2011-06-27 1:04 PM

I think this is the issue with HRs.  Your HR can vary tremendously from day to day for a variety of reasons.  I would say that pace is a perfect measure of effort.  If I weigh

 the same and run the same course on Monday as I did on Saturday then the work or effort my body body does to move at the same pace is the same.  I would assume this is why there are many pace built run programs such as McMillan, Daniels, F.I.R.S.T.

 

I was under the impression that they have you determine your LT, VO2Max, etc. and set up zones?  For example, McMillian has and "endurance zone" (60 and 75% of maximum HR) and a "stamina zone,"  Friel uses "Zone 2 85% to 89% of LTHR" and so on.

McMillan does discuss a lab test to set up HR zones, but then utilizes paces to set different training zones.  So you have a range for easy runs based off a recent eqyuivalent performance.  You have a pace for tempo runds, etc.  Friel definitely utilizes HR zones.

I think the difficulty for many, especially beginners, is establishing the HR zones and if doing a field test doing it correctly.  I think pacing during a field test is difficult as well as pushing oneself to the degree that a field test would warrant.  I'll admit that the same could be said about setting paces off a a recent race performance.  I have never run a close to perfect race so I know that my 10-k or half marathon time is probably not the most accurate thing in the world.

My main point is that if the amount of sleep (or countless other things) can effect my HR then I have somewhat of an issue limiting my training by that figure.  I've come to the decision to focus on pace and make sure that I am consistent in the work I do during training.



2011-06-28 9:26 AM
in reply to: #3567122

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Subject: RE: Zone/Time/Distance conflict

Joe,

The distance is only a rough guideline for the bike and run parts of the training plan.  It's the time and HR that are what you need to pay attention too.  We give distance so you can pick routes more easily, you shouldn't be calculating pace and trying to run the distance in the time.  Perhpas this was the issue?  You tried to run 1.3 miles in 12min?  You really just wanted to run 12 min at a HR of Z1-Z2.

Does that help?

JoeE - 2011-06-25 6:12 PM

Any suggestions on what I should do when I cannot achieve my plan's goals because my HR is too fast? In my MS today I was supposed to run 1.3m in 12min. in Zone1-2. I couldn't achieve that distance in Z1-2. Any suggestions on what to do in these situations? Also, is doing anything in Z1-2 really effective? I feel like I'm not pushing myself at all.

 

Thanks!

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