General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Group cycling vs. Solo Rss Feed  
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2011-08-01 2:55 PM

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Chicago
Subject: Group cycling vs. Solo

I recently rode with a group for the first time, I've gone with them a few times now.

I was stunned at how different riding in a line is than riding solo.

I was just wondering, if my main reason for riding a bike is to compete in triathlons, am I better off just riding alone like I will be in races?

With the group, we go faster than I do alone, which is good, but I feel it's mostly because of the drafting.  I don't necessarily feel like I'm working much harder to be faster.  Actually, with them I feel like I go in spurts...one second I'll be falling behind and have to kick it up to keep up, and the next second I'm not pedaling for 20 seconds so as to not collide with the guy in front me.

I guess this is my main question - for my once or twice per week "long" or "main" training ride, where I'm really trying to get tuned in for a race, am I better off riding alone to simulate race conditions, or does it not really matter, and if they're going the right distance, etc, I might as well ride with them?

Any other thoughts on riding with a group in a drafting line vs. riding alone?



2011-08-01 3:01 PM
in reply to: #3624197

Master
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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo

For the most part, do what you like here.  Whatever gets you riding.  You'll get better at being with the group over time. If you have something specific to work on and they're not in for it, then do it on your own.  Chris Lieto trains with a group most of the time.  And not small ones either, often at least 20 or even 50 or so.  He'll just take off when he needs a tempo or interval session.  Others (Crowie for sure) will ride on their own almost exclusively.

I tend to ride on my own because I don't know of groups that will do what I like regularly enough.  I know how to deal with groups, but don't like it as much.

2011-08-01 3:05 PM
in reply to: #3624197

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo

Depending on the group, you could opt to hang back 10 feet or so and not get a draft.  I do that for the group rides I go on.

I like the group rides because I feel they push me harder than I might go on my own.  Additionally, we do routes that I wouldn't do on my own, either because I wouldn't know them, or because it's safer to ride in the road in a pack. Another safety element is that if you get hurt, or have a mechanical issue, there are people to help.

I also like the comraderie of riding with other people, vs just going out for hours on end by myself.

Alternately, I do go for rides on my own, but mostly shorter, more intense rides, or brick workouts.

2011-08-01 3:07 PM
in reply to: #3624197

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo
I do a group ride once a week and ride solo the rest of the time. The group rides are fun and definitely help you work on bike handling and you get a good workout from those little sprint efforts you have to put in to not get dropped. However if you feel you need something more structured and you have very specific goals then solo riding might be the best option.
2011-08-01 3:14 PM
in reply to: #3624232

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo
Another thing to consider is whether or not you want to do your long rides on your tri bike, which typically aren't acceptable for riding with groups.  As I get closer to a long course race, I like to get long rides in on my tri bike, which pretty eliminates group riding.  I'll still go out with small groups of 2-4 people, but they're triathletes that I know so it doesn't matter to them.
2011-08-01 3:16 PM
in reply to: #3624226

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Chicago
Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo
Apotheosis - 2011-08-01 3:05 PM

Depending on the group, you could opt to hang back 10 feet or so and not get a draft.  I do that for the group rides I go on.

I like the group rides because I feel they push me harder than I might go on my own.  Additionally, we do routes that I wouldn't do on my own, either because I wouldn't know them, or because it's safer to ride in the road in a pack. Another safety element is that if you get hurt, or have a mechanical issue, there are people to help.

I also like the comraderie of riding with other people, vs just going out for hours on end by myself.

Alternately, I do go for rides on my own, but mostly shorter, more intense rides, or brick workouts.

Yeah, these are all the reasons why I've enjoyed riding in a group.

I just have a mental block with doing anything in training that, in my mind, doesn't simulate a race.  I've just recently opened myself up to the idea of working drills and stuff in swims rather than just swimming front crawl as far as I can without stopping or resting every single swim workout.



2011-08-01 10:49 PM
in reply to: #3624197

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo

depends on your goals...group riding is very different.  if you are goig to do it for fun with friends, cool. if you are truely trying to improve pace for racing.  doing a long ride on sat and sun by yourself is much more beneficial to you solo. 

but it all depends on goals, types of races etc.  groups can be deciving.  they give you a false idea that you can go much much faster in race because you tend to pull much less rest of the time you are generating much lower power then really needed.

2011-08-01 11:03 PM
in reply to: #3624197

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo

Group rides help with handling skills.

You don't have to draft all the time.  Hang back, or pull the group more and go off on flyers and let them chase you.

2011-08-02 12:20 AM
in reply to: #3624226

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo
Apotheosis - 2011-08-01 3:05 PM

I like the group rides because I feel they push me harder than I might go on my own.

Absolutely.  Every best effort I've recorded up to about 10 minutes long has been in a group setting.  Trying to close group splits, trying to hang with the 130lb waif up the next hill, hanging with the big dog when he decides to drop onto the bars and ride away, etc.

2011-08-02 12:33 AM
in reply to: #3624197

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo

Personally, I prefer training with a group. It's more fun and I push myself harder on hills. Solo rides are important too tho. 

My solution is to ride to wherever the group meets. Like today I did a 6 mile TT to the meeting spot then a 30 mile ride and then another 6mile tt home.

Works out for a nice 42mi ride.

2011-08-02 7:34 AM
in reply to: #3624197

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo

I push myself harder in a group as I go out with the faster guys.  Yea there is drafting but my RPE and HR tell different stories as they are high most of the time.  But here are a couple issues I have found with group rides:

1) If it is a longer "no drop" ride then you may be waiting a lot.  This past Saturday we were also lost and the ride ended up shorter than we thought. 

2) Risk of a crash.  I had my first group wreck when someone up ahead dropped a chain and hit the breaks.  I hit my hip on the way down and it made the rest of my day painful.

3) Scheduling.  This does not effect me much but some people complain about times and such and I do not want to hear their complaining.



2011-08-02 7:35 AM
in reply to: #3624251

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo

Patrick E - 2011-08-01 4:14 PM Another thing to consider is whether or not you want to do your long rides on your tri bike, which typically aren't acceptable for riding with groups.   

People talk about this, but I have yet to see it.  I have asked a few group leaders around town about this and they all said tri bikes are welcome as long as you stay on the horns.  I have yet to feel unwelcome on my tri bike (but for full disclosure, the group rides I do are not super fast variety).  I do a group ride once in a while to break up the boredom during the week.

Is this something that is more common with the faster groups (21+)? 

2011-08-02 7:48 AM
in reply to: #3624197

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo
Commonly, faster groups are usually more picky. I think it's a combination of attitude vs. triathletes and the fact that the faster you go, usually the tighter the group will be and the faster an accident can happen. A road bike does handle better in a group than a tri bike.... simply because of shifting, braking and geometry of a tri bike.

In terms of training alone vs. in a group. Both offers important benefits. Commonly, it's much easier to do longer, faster rides in a group, which will help you to maintain a better pace when you're racing. You also need to do rides alone as you will race alone...

2011-08-02 9:09 AM
in reply to: #3624197

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo

Personally, I ascribe to the Freddie Mercury theory of training: "Get on your bike and ride".

Alone, group, road, tri, MTB, track, intervals, base riding, LSD, short sprints, whatever gets you out there and going.

Riding in a group certainly helps build a lot of skills (including social skills, rules of the road skills, and handling skills), and it's not a bad thing to do once in awhile (or, more often, if you enjoy it). But neither will you die if you don't.

Again, long story short: Go ride. Don't overthink it.

2011-08-02 9:13 AM
in reply to: #3624197

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo

Group rides can have great comraderie.  For me, the social aspect adds a lot of fun to cycling, which helps keep me motivated.  If I had to do all my riding solo, I probably would have quit riding a long time ago. 

Group rides can help push you harder than you would do on your own, but it's important to spend some time riding solo to practice long hard efforts in your aero bars. 

Both have their place.  Just make sure you're having fun and go with whatever gets you out on your bike more!

2011-08-02 9:25 AM
in reply to: #3625211

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo
AndrewMT - 2011-08-02 9:13 AM

Group rides can have great comraderie.  For me, the social aspect adds a lot of fun to cycling, which helps keep me motivated.  If I had to do all my riding solo, I probably would have quit riding a long time ago. 

Group rides can help push you harder than you would do on your own, but it's important to spend some time riding solo to practice long hard efforts in your aero bars. 

Both have their place.  Just make sure you're having fun and go with whatever gets you out on your bike more!

come now andrew really? 

that was my favorite morning, going on a 60 miler training ride solo.  groups generally annoy the hell out of me, not saying they can't be fun, but its very different to ride with 4 good friends then grp of 50....



2011-08-02 9:55 AM
in reply to: #3625238

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo
trix - 2011-08-02 9:25 AM
AndrewMT - 2011-08-02 9:13 AM

Group rides can have great comraderie.  For me, the social aspect adds a lot of fun to cycling, which helps keep me motivated.  If I had to do all my riding solo, I probably would have quit riding a long time ago. 

Group rides can help push you harder than you would do on your own, but it's important to spend some time riding solo to practice long hard efforts in your aero bars. 

Both have their place.  Just make sure you're having fun and go with whatever gets you out on your bike more!

come now andrew really? 

that was my favorite morning, going on a 60 miler training ride solo.  groups generally annoy the hell out of me, not saying they can't be fun, but its very different to ride with 4 good friends then grp of 50....

Riding with a small group of friends is a lot of fun, especially when they're about the same level as you and you can go out and hammer.

But yeah, except for the rare pre 'A' race rehearsal ride, I won't do any of my long rides solo.  Anything over 2hrs and the boredom is more than I can handle.  It's worked out well that I have some groups of fast riders to get some long rides in with, but without them, I would never go out for more than 2hrs solo. 

 ETA: maybe this would be different if I lived someplace with scenery.  But with Houston scenery and Houston weather...



Edited by AndrewMT 2011-08-02 9:56 AM
2011-08-02 10:03 AM
in reply to: #3624197

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo

Also depends on what you want to accomplish on the ride.  If you are riding with specific targets in mind, then you may need to forget the group ride.  Riding with a PM means I need to pay attention to what my plan calls for that day - if I ride with others then the plan tends to go out the window.  This isn't always a bad thing, but I make sure I limit how often it happens.

2011-08-02 10:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo
Do what you enjoy. If you enjoy the group rides then do it.  Make training something you look forward to doing and not like a chore. 
2011-08-02 12:53 PM
in reply to: #3625305

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo
GoFaster - 2011-08-02 10:03 AM

Also depends on what you want to accomplish on the ride.  If you are riding with specific targets in mind, then you may need to forget the group ride.  Riding with a PM means I need to pay attention to what my plan calls for that day - if I ride with others then the plan tends to go out the window.  This isn't always a bad thing, but I make sure I limit how often it happens.

 

this +1

2011-08-02 2:01 PM
in reply to: #3624197

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo
I would say that a few race distance rides at race effort solo are a good idea; make sure that you have a good handle on race effort and get used to riding in your race position for that length of time.

Beyond that, whatever gets you motivated to get out the door and ride as much as possible. If you are riding with a group that is at the right level, you should be working hard at the front and recovering in the pack. Add to that some hills, attacks and a few city limit sprints and you should have some solid efforts throughout the ride.

Shane


2011-08-02 4:12 PM
in reply to: #3624197

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Subject: RE: Group cycling vs. Solo

I try to set a focus for all of my bike workouts and keep those in mind whether I'm riding solo or with a group.  Most of my rides at least start out with a group.  If the group is strong, I'll usually hang with them and take my fair share of pulls.  If the group is weaker, I'll stay up front more often, or even break away in certain areas that I know I can easily double back for the rest of the group.

But a long solo ride is also important from time to time.  For this, I like to start with my group who's a bit slower, then just hammer and go about 10 total miles farther on the out and back.  My goal then becomes to chase the group down before the end of the ride.  They stop to regroup and take a few short breaks...while I do more of a race simulation...only stopping at red lights or stop signs so it makes it possible for me to close the gap.  Sometimes I catch them...sometimes I don't.  Either way...it's a lot more fun than just riding completely on my own.  And if I don't get back to the area where the ride started witin a reasonable amount of time after the group finishes...I know they'll either call me or come look for me. 

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