General Discussion Triathlon Talk » I am so frustrated... Rss Feed  
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2011-08-19 10:54 AM


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Subject: I am so frustrated...

My first post here, so I will give a short bio. I use to be an avid marathon runner, but due to kids and injuries, I fell out of sport. I have always wanted to train for triathlons, but I have never been able to clear one hurdle, which leads me to my frustration.

In the beginning of the summer, I decided I was going to seriously train for a sprint triathlon, and hopefully be ready by next summer. The major problem I have always had has not being able to get the breathing down while doing a front crawl. I have watched countless youtube videos, read numerous articles/forums, and have had people try to give me lessons, but I can still not get the breathing down even just doing the "bob drill". I am about at the stage of giving up, so here is some questions.

If my goal is just to have fun, and complete with myself, is it reasonable to just train doing strokes like side, back, and head up front crawl?

If I could do twice the race distance in training with a side stroke for example, do you think I would be safe/ properly prepared to do a triathlon?



2011-08-19 11:03 AM
in reply to: #3650629

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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

and have had people try to give me lessons

Who are these people? 

If my goal is just to have fun, and complete with myself, is it reasonable to just train doing strokes like side, back, and head up front crawl?

IMO, no.  None of those strokes are efficient or nearly as fast as freestyle.  Why not train to do the race in the spirit/history it was intended?  Would you have done marathons if you intended to walk every one of them?  They are meant to be run, right?

If I could do twice the race distance in training with a side stroke for example, do you think I would be safe/ properly prepared to do a triathlon?

Safe?  Maybe.   Properly prepared....not in my opinion.

2011-08-19 11:12 AM
in reply to: #3650629

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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

if you're just looking to have fun and finish, i say go for it.  side stroke, breast stroke, back stroke, or whatever kind of stroke you want all the way to the end.  there's no rule on how you should swim.  i'd bet that over 50% (much over proly) of the people in a sprint will do a combination of strokes.  trust me, you won't be the only one out there just doing whatever it takes to get out of the water.  don't give up though, it will click one day.

i know a guy that did the full swim of an IM in side stroke becuase that's what he knew best (ex navy seal). 

just stay to the outside and to the back of the pack and have fun.

2011-08-19 11:20 AM
in reply to: #3650629

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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

Have you had any lessons? If not pursue that before you give up.

Not all instructors are equal in ability to teach. Do you have local tri team or local tri shop? Ask there for recommendation for swim coach that works with adults who want to learn to swim for tris. Very different type of instruction then a Y type swim instructor.

You could also post on your state's forum board and ask for swim coach recommendations there.

2011-08-19 11:23 AM
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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

If you haven't gotten swim coaching from a well-recommended (by people who swim like rocks) open-water/tri swim coach, I'd try that first. An ounce of solid professional help is worth a ton of second-hand self-interpreted advice.

That said, if you really don't care, then go nuts with the other strokes. Just remember that side/breast kicks can leave a nasty dent in other people who do care and are competing, so stay well out of the fray and off to the side, and try to do head-up free when you're in crowded spots (like buoys).

If you can do twice the race distance in the same conditions (including possible weather/water) as the tri is in, you're prepared to do it. The pool is a very fickle friend.

2011-08-19 11:27 AM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

Check out total immersion youtube videos if you have not already.  Hang in there.



2011-08-19 11:38 AM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

Just FYI,

 

I can swim an almost passable freestyle in the pool.  Yet when I came to do my first tri, I couldn't put my head down at all.  Yet I finished.  On my second tri, I was able to put it down a little bit and was able to swim a bit faster.  So, for a sprint it's doable even if you don't have perfect form.

2011-08-19 11:51 AM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...
I think if I could learn to do it, you can too.  I learned to swim late in life, and just learned how to do bi-lateral breathing.  Just seems to me you need to get the right coaching on this deal.   
2011-08-19 12:02 PM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...
First, don't give up.  Second, as previously stated you should look for a quality swim coach and get some lessons.  I would go find a Masters swim club and talk to whoever is in charge of it for a recommendation.  Third, take some lessons from that person and get the knowledge of what you're supposed to be doing into your head.  Fourth, just go swimming and work on getting better.  You might not ever be a "good" swimmer, but many triathletes aren't.  At my last sprint there were many people who were really struggling on the swim, and some who didn't do the freestyle at all.  I don't think you would see that at longer races but so what?  Work on fixing the problem WHILE you are pursuing your goal, and don't give up.  Just my .02 worth.
2011-08-19 12:08 PM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

I did my first ows sprint 100% side stroke. As some have mentioned, you have to be careful, so I hung back and started behind everyone else (out of the washing machine), and I kept myself very aware of where everyone was. I actually ended up passing people who were doing their swim freestyle, so it's not necessarily the slowest way that you can swim. (I even passed someone who had started in the wave before me). My side stroke is not like your grandmother's side stroke when she is trying not to get her fancy hair wet.  Again, when I was passing people, I kept a good distance away from them so that I didn't accidentally kick anyone. The advantage, for me, was that my breathing stayed completely calm and under control, I could sight very well (stayed on course), and I didn't have to take any breaks treading water or floating on my back.

That being said, I am working on freestyle now, and in my second sprint tri I managed 300/400m of freestyle, with two lengths (pool swim) of breast stroke*, again making sure no one was coming up on me when I did it. At that same sprint tri, there was a guy doing the whole 400m using breast stroke and he was amazingly fast. Those of us waiting to start were very impressed.

*edit: I should say that in this tri, I was really struggling with getting a good breathing pattern going. I couldn't figure out why. After the tri, I went home and slept four hours and woke up with a horrible head cold. I'm wondering now if that was one reason I couldn't blow out of my nose under water very well during that tri.



Edited by KansasMom 2011-08-19 12:12 PM
2011-08-19 12:16 PM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

Stick with trying to learn front crawl. Get some lessons and just stick with it. When I first started, I had a hard time making it across a 25m pool without gasping for breath. I just did 4000m straight in the pool the other day and could have kept going. Biggest thing I would say is slow down and make sure you are exhaling with your face in the water. 

It takes time but, it will come.



2011-08-19 12:36 PM
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NH
Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

You’ll hear lots of these stories, but when I signed up for my first sprint I couldn’t even put my face in the water.  10 yards and I was spouting water and walking back to shore.  I seriously thought about dropping out and throwing the entry fee away, but I’m too cheap.

So I spent a week just standing in water and putting my face under water.  Then I started trying to coast holding my breath – like superman (I used Total Immersion videos to learn a few drills).  Then I took the next baby step.  You get the idea.  Eventually I figured out how to swim a little; then I got a few lessons and got rid of my biggest form issues.  6 weeks after the start, I finished a sprint with an ocean swim.  A year later I finished a HIM swim without even feeling fatigued at all.

Next summer is plenty of time to become a fair enough swimmer.  Stay with it.

2011-08-19 12:42 PM
in reply to: #3650629


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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

Thanks for the replies guys. As some of you guessed, my "swim lessons" were not from actual swim instructors, but just friends/family. I have always assumed lessons would be expensive; that is what has stopped my in the past, but I will follow some of your suggestions and see what my coaching options are.

Your post help my mental state a great deal. Knowing that it is possible/reasonable to do another stroke may take some of the pressure off, and actually help me learn the front crawl. I can tell that it is much faster/efficient.

It is the exhaling in the water I have problems with. If I do it fast: I am struggling with the bubbles and I seem to go in some panic mode, and if I do it slow: I am struggling with timing the breathing and I seem to have water in my nose/mouth when I go to breath.

2011-08-19 12:56 PM
in reply to: #3650865

Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

I hate to sound like a jerk, but really.  This is another I can't swim do a bunch of people I don't know on the web thing I can do a Tri.

No, stay out of the water until you can swim.  If you are asking your computer screen you know the answer.  Also you  may be "OK" doing the side stroke, but you are an danger to the rest of the field.  What is going to happen when you are trying to side stroke and you get kicked in the head and then someone swims over the top of you.  You will grab for what ever you can and it may be another person you pull under.  How are you going to watch your direction backstroking.  You can't so you go off course and that person on the kayaka has to come get you.  Then when that person on the kayaka is chasing you...someone else goes under and they are not seen  What about when you panic...is drowning really worth it

SWIM bike run....if you can't swim try Run Bike Run

 

Off my sounding like a jerk box

 

Oh and welcome to BT



Edited by Puppetmaster 2011-08-19 12:57 PM
2011-08-19 2:29 PM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

swim coach, master swim class, or even beginner swim lessons. It almost sounds like you have issues with being out of breath maybe?  Feeling like you can't catch your breath???  slow down and try it.

Best advice is to get swim lessons.

2011-08-19 8:18 PM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...
Puppetmaster - 2011-08-19 12:56 PM

I hate to sound like a jerk, but really.  This is another I can't swim do a bunch of people I don't know on the web thing I can do a Tri.

No, stay out of the water until you can swim.  If you are asking your computer screen you know the answer.  Also you  may be "OK" doing the side stroke, but you are an danger to the rest of the field.  What is going to happen when you are trying to side stroke and you get kicked in the head and then someone swims over the top of you.  You will grab for what ever you can and it may be another person you pull under.  How are you going to watch your direction backstroking.  You can't so you go off course and that person on the kayaka has to come get you.  Then when that person on the kayaka is chasing you...someone else goes under and they are not seen  What about when you panic...is drowning really worth it

SWIM bike run....if you can't swim try Run Bike Run

 

Off my sounding like a jerk box

 

Oh and welcome to BT

 

Its not like he's trying scramble to do a tri next week. He has until NEXT year (summer) to get it together.

Hire a swim coach and get that one on one instruction.  You have more than enough time to be ready for next year.



2011-08-19 8:45 PM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...
As a struggling swimmer myself, I say get at least a lesson or two from a real coach - preferrably one who will shoot underwater video if possible. I cut 20 seconds off my 100 time after one lesson. Big bang for buck. It's almost stupid how much difference small changes can make in swimming.
2011-08-19 10:23 PM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...
Puppetmaster - 2011-08-19 1:56 PM

I hate to sound like a jerk, but really.  This is another I can't swim do a bunch of people I don't know on the web thing I can do a Tri.

No, stay out of the water until you can swim.  If you are asking your computer screen you know the answer.  Also you  may be "OK" doing the side stroke, but you are an danger to the rest of the field.  What is going to happen when you are trying to side stroke and you get kicked in the head and then someone swims over the top of you.  You will grab for what ever you can and it may be another person you pull under.  How are you going to watch your direction backstroking.  You can't so you go off course and that person on the kayaka has to come get you.  Then when that person on the kayaka is chasing you...someone else goes under and they are not seen  What about when you panic...is drowning really worth it

SWIM bike run....if you can't swim try Run Bike Run

 

Off my sounding like a jerk box

 

Oh and welcome to BT

^^^Too much! You (Puppetmaster) are correct though it is SWIM Bike Run, it is not Freestyle Bike Run! To the OP, just do your thing,swim more-be mindful of others in the water and enjoy!
2011-08-20 5:17 AM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...
Puppetmaster - 2011-08-19 1:56 PM

I hate to sound like a jerk, but really.  This is another I can't swim do a bunch of people I don't know on the web thing I can do a Tri.

No, stay out of the water until you can swim.  If you are asking your computer screen you know the answer.  Also you  may be "OK" doing the side stroke, but you are an danger to the rest of the field.  What is going to happen when you are trying to side stroke and you get kicked in the head and then someone swims over the top of you.  You will grab for what ever you can and it may be another person you pull under.  How are you going to watch your direction backstroking.  You can't so you go off course and that person on the kayaka has to come get you.  Then when that person on the kayaka is chasing you...someone else goes under and they are not seen  What about when you panic...is drowning really worth it

SWIM bike run....if you can't swim try Run Bike Run

 

Off my sounding like a jerk box

 

Oh and welcome to BT

Having a bad day? Even though I agree with some of your post, I think this is a little harsh. He was given good advice to find a qualified instructor, and it sounds like he's going to take that advice. Blasting someone new to the board for asking a question that is posted regularly, but is new to them, might not be the best way to welcome him to our community. One other comment to the OP - make sure whoever you decide to get lessons from is an instructor, not just a coach. There are some coaches who are good instructors, but some are just coaches who will provide basic instruction even though it's not their strength. Welcome to BT!
2011-08-20 5:31 AM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...
Commit to learning to swim and you will be able to reach your goal. I went from zero swim fitness to doing a mile OWS in less than a year. Many dark days while learning to drill and watching 70 year old obese folks pass me by in the pool. I actually used the whole experience as a teachable moment for my kids - watch dad struggle and overcome his perceived barriers. The worst thing you could would be to avoid training for what seems to be your weakest discipline. While it will be frustrating at first, bear in mind that your improvements will be that much more dramatic. Once you "get it" you will see your swimming and your enjoyment of it skyrocket. Then again who really likes something they struggle with. Best of luck and stick with it.
2011-08-20 7:29 AM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

I have a friend who completed a couple IM's swimming side stroke the whole way. He says he passed lots of people struggling to maintain the crawl with bad form. I have seen him swim. I have no concern for his safety. He has a strong, comfortable side stroke. He is not fast but it allows him to participate and feel comfortable in the water. At the end of the day it is his choice.

 

I should add no one wants to share a lap lane with him due to the risk of a side kick to the gut so watch out for that in a race!



2011-08-20 10:55 AM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...
Yea, I was having a bad day and was a little harsh...sorry about that
2011-08-20 11:05 AM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

Read TOTAL IMMERSION. Seriously. It's perfect for folks like you that have serious breathing and comfort issues in the water.

 

I'm a huge TI fan for raw beginners in situations like yours. At the minimum, it'll give you guidelines & drills that will get your comfortable in the water quickly.

 

Once you're getting to intermediate stage though, you'll probably need more. I felt it over-sold the 'fast swimming easy' part (it's HARD to swim fast!) but it's the best intro to freestyle swimming for those with serious water fear and comfort issues.

2011-08-20 12:26 PM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...

I guess I really don't get these threads. I'm not saying I am great at anything. All I remember was being thrown in a a pool by my dad when I was little to sink or swim. I sank he nearly had to jump in and get me... then I remember being scared in YMCA class... the I remember I wish I was born a fish.

I total get that swimming can be intimidating. I get people can drown. I get not liking feeling like I am going to suffocate at any time. So I do understand some have more problems than other getting over some rational fears, phobias, and comfort level.

But I don't understand how many say they can't swim free style, and want to use a different stroke. I mean it is simple mechanics, and coordination. If one human body can do it, all human bodies can do it. Some better than others, but all can do it. It takes coordination to learn to walk, to go up stairs, to throw a ball, to ride a bike, to run, to do a somersault, to drive a car.....

All I'm saying is that you are more than capable of learning a freestyle stroke. You already know others have struggled, but have been able to learn it too. Now all you have to do is figure out how to get there.... not figure out how to get around it.

2011-08-20 3:37 PM
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Subject: RE: I am so frustrated...
Step 1. Make sure you can blow bubble underwater (slowly and controlled)
Step 2. Push off the wall into a glide (both arms above your head) and blow bubbles
Step 3. Repeat step 2 but with you right arm to your side
Step 4. Repeat step 3 but when your bubbles start slowing down, look over your right shoulder, left ear on your left shoulder and take a breath
Step 5. Repeat step 4 and recover your right arm and enter the water with your right hand
Step 6 . Complete a full stroke with your left arm, and than your right arm
Step 7. As you reach with your right arm, repeat steps 4 - 6 on the other side.

That being said, swimming isn't learned in front of the computer. Get into the pool often and get a proper coach/instructor.

EVERYONE can learn to have an efficient stroke and can be comfortable breathing.
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