Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions
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2011-09-29 7:44 AM |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions |
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2011-09-29 8:04 AM in reply to: #3704694 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions Great article - also interesting comment about the Bento box having no drag penalty. The one thing I keep wondering about is the benefit of the torpedo style bottle vs traditional aero bottle. Yes, it is much more aero (even making you faster according to the article if you position it correctly), but how much of a penalty or how much of the benfefit is reduced when you move out of the sero position to take a drink? Since you ride with one - do you find you move that much to take a drink, or are you able to stay aero while drinking? |
2011-09-29 8:17 AM in reply to: #3704694 |
Veteran 503 Bedford, NH | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions That was very interesting. Thanks for posting. These were the things I took away (and surprised me).
I wish they would also talk about where is the best place to mount a computer, especially if you are using a torpedo mount or vertically mounted aero bottle between the bars. I use the x-lab stem mount for my 705, but its hard to read sometimes and gets wet/sticky from splashing. I use a vertically mounted aero bottle because I like the ease of being able to take a drink, especially if I am pushing hard uphill. But will try torpedo mount next year.
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2011-09-29 8:24 AM in reply to: #3704735 |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions GoFaster - 2011-09-29 9:04 AM Great article - also interesting comment about the Bento box having no drag penalty. The one thing I keep wondering about is the benefit of the torpedo style bottle vs traditional aero bottle. Yes, it is much more aero (even making you faster according to the article if you position it correctly), but how much of a penalty or how much of the benfefit is reduced when you move out of the sero position to take a drink? Since you ride with one - do you find you move that much to take a drink, or are you able to stay aero while drinking? As far as the moving goes I look at it like this... I'm probably going to be getting out of aero at least "Some" during a bike leg long enough for me to need hydration (that is, olympic or up) - at Augusta last week I sat up on most "climbs" and sometimes when I was passing somebody who looking a bit uneasy holding their line - During those times I made a mental note to also get a drink. Also, since I carry my "food" in my frame virtue bottle, I am basically forced to sit up to "eat" (it's very difficult to reach and drink from it and get it replaced in aero) so I also used that opportunity to also grab a drink. I've spent some time practicing removing/drinking in aero as well, so on long stretches when I feel thirsty I can remove one arm, grab the bottle, drink, and replace it... which doesn't actually break the aero position (although my right arm is out moving in the wind) I think it all boils down to being pretty smart about it. No, you shouldn't sit around drinking upright on downhills / straightaways, but at 13-15mph grinding up a hill, I don't think you are losing a ton by sitting up and having a drink / stretch. |
2011-09-29 9:20 AM in reply to: #3704694 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions Interesting that they found the behind the seat bottle to not be that much of an aero penalty. I was always under the impression that it was one of the worst places to stick a bottle. |
2011-09-29 9:40 AM in reply to: #3704694 |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions I think the key to the behind the saddle setup was when they mentioned it not sticking out to the sides (like most store bought versions) It also looked like they only tried a single bottle... although that could just be the way the pictures are taken. If I were going to run one behind me (again) I think it would still be Lieto style. |
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2011-09-29 9:46 AM in reply to: #3704694 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions Yeah, very interesting read. I have the between the bars cage and one on the downtube rifght now. As I start to train for IMSG, I like having 3 bottels on the bike so i think i will loose the downtube cage and return to a behind the seat system that I can carry 2 plus spare kit and then for race reduce it to just one cage and spare kit. The test was done with a sinlge bottle directly behind the rider and they do mention having the bottle wide is problematic, but I'm fin with that for training and then can make it more efficient for racing where I only need 2 bottles. |
2011-09-29 9:54 AM in reply to: #3704694 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions I also notice from the pictures that I will need to alter the position of my between the bars bottle somewhat to get it to fill in the gap a bit better. |
2011-09-29 9:57 AM in reply to: #3704735 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions GoFaster - 2011-09-29 10:04 AM Great article - also interesting comment about the Bento box having no drag penalty. The one thing I keep wondering about is the benefit of the torpedo style bottle vs traditional aero bottle. Yes, it is much more aero (even making you faster according to the article if you position it correctly), but how much of a penalty or how much of the benfefit is reduced when you move out of the sero position to take a drink? Since you ride with one - do you find you move that much to take a drink, or are you able to stay aero while drinking? Even if you have to break aero position to drink, which you shouldn't have to do with some practice, I look at the aero penalty of sitting up for a few seconds every few minutes to drink versus the aero penalty that you always incur from a different hydration choice. In addition, one should be able to take advantages of situations where breaking aero is less of a penalty so that even if you have to sit up, you can minimize the impact. For the Bentobox, I have been carrying my flat kit in one for the past few years (since the MIT windtunnel results on Bentoboxes came out). Shane |
2011-09-29 10:24 AM in reply to: #3704694 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions Yeah, I can remove, drink, and replace my standard bottle from between the bars without sitting up without a problem. |
2011-09-29 10:27 AM in reply to: #3704694 |
Master 1770 Bedford, MA | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions So, here's a question in regards to this article for longer races (HIM and IM). Is it more advantageous to carry more hydration - let's say a front system on the areobars, one on the downtube, and two behind the seat - and slow down less frequently at aid stations, or only have two bottles - one on the aerobars and one on the downtube - and slow down at each aid station to pick up more hydration? I guess it boils down to personal preference. |
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2011-09-29 10:29 AM in reply to: #3704694 |
Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions I thought it was interesting that Cervelo didn't mention their cable routing behind the stem -- i.e. bento boxes won't push flush with the stem unless you cut them up to run the cables through the box. |
2011-09-29 10:35 AM in reply to: #3705020 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions natethomas2000 - 2011-09-29 9:27 AM So, here's a question in regards to this article for longer races (HIM and IM). Is it more advantageous to carry more hydration - let's say a front system on the areobars, one on the downtube, and two behind the seat - and slow down less frequently at aid stations, or only have two bottles - one on the aerobars and one on the downtube - and slow down at each aid station to pick up more hydration? I guess it boils down to personal preference. Although I recall you have issues using bike aid stations, I find it very easy to get my bike aid with very little time cost so I always, got Half and Full IM, only have two bottles with me on the bike, I start the race with just one, water to take with gel, and then collect another, sport drink, when I need it and repeat as needed. I see no need to have the additional bottles and weight on the bike from the start. |
2011-09-29 10:37 AM in reply to: #3705029 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions spudone - 2011-09-29 9:29 AM I thought it was interesting that Cervelo didn't mention their cable routing behind the stem -- i.e. bento boxes won't push flush with the stem unless you cut them up to run the cables through the box. Mine won't flush with the stem either due to the internal cable routing but I would hazrd a guess that Bento boxes regardless of where they are on the front of the top tube have very minimal aero disadvantage. perhaps that guy from Darkworks who posts here will opine on bento type box aerodynamics as he claims his product is more aero then others. Besides, for long course a guys got to eat and you have to put it somewhere. |
2011-09-29 12:49 PM in reply to: #3704694 |
Elite 3498 Laguna Beach | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions This is an excellent resource. Thank you for sharing. |
2011-09-29 1:01 PM in reply to: #3705045 |
Master 1770 Bedford, MA | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions bryancd - 2011-09-29 11:35 AM natethomas2000 - 2011-09-29 9:27 AM Although I recall you have issues using bike aid stations, I find it very easy to get my bike aid with very little time cost so I always, got Half and Full IM, only have two bottles with me on the bike, I start the race with just one, water to take with gel, and then collect another, sport drink, when I need it and repeat as needed. I see no need to have the additional bottles and weight on the bike from the start.So, here's a question in regards to this article for longer races (HIM and IM). Is it more advantageous to carry more hydration - let's say a front system on the areobars, one on the downtube, and two behind the seat - and slow down less frequently at aid stations, or only have two bottles - one on the aerobars and one on the downtube - and slow down at each aid station to pick up more hydration? I guess it boils down to personal preference. I'm hoping to rectify this issue in my next race (and I have done another race where I got hydration and didn't end up on the ground ). Like you Bryan, I'm leaning towards the two bottle route and picking up hydration along the way. For a training ride I 'bottle up,' but on race day the lighter the better. |
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2011-09-29 1:09 PM in reply to: #3705029 |
Extreme Veteran 404 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions spudone - 2011-09-29 10:29 AM I thought it was interesting that Cervelo didn't mention their cable routing behind the stem -- i.e. bento boxes won't push flush with the stem unless you cut them up to run the cables through the box. Bento fits flush (mostly) on the P2. Who makes a rear mounted single-bottle carrier? I like the idea of using that to provide a handy place for repair kit storage. Right now, I remove the xlab double-bottle carrier for races and tape a repair kit under the seat. |
2011-09-29 1:23 PM in reply to: #3705338 |
Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions Aspiring - 2011-09-29 11:09 AM spudone - 2011-09-29 10:29 AM I thought it was interesting that Cervelo didn't mention their cable routing behind the stem -- i.e. bento boxes won't push flush with the stem unless you cut them up to run the cables through the box. Bento fits flush (mostly) on the P2. I think the older P2s routes cables into the downtube. The newer P2s and the P3/P4 (see photos on Cervelo's site) - route into the top tube directly behind the stem. |
2011-09-30 12:37 AM in reply to: #3705338 |
Master 1433 Calgary, AB | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions Aspiring - 2011-09-29 12:09 PM Bento fits flush (mostly) on the P2. Who makes a rear mounted single-bottle carrier? I like the idea of using that to provide a handy place for repair kit storage. Right now, I remove the xlab double-bottle carrier for races and tape a repair kit under the seat.
For IM I used a xlab wing, but with the cage dead center on the back. Then a small bag in the middle with all the flat stuff. Gut said it would be out of the air and the cervelo tests seem to bear it out. |
2011-09-30 1:07 AM in reply to: #3705359 |
Pro 3804 Seacoast, NH! | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions spudone - 2011-09-29 2:23 PM Aspiring - 2011-09-29 11:09 AM spudone - 2011-09-29 10:29 AM I thought it was interesting that Cervelo didn't mention their cable routing behind the stem -- i.e. bento boxes won't push flush with the stem unless you cut them up to run the cables through the box. Bento fits flush (mostly) on the P2. I think the older P2s routes cables into the downtube. The newer P2s and the P3/P4 (see photos on Cervelo's site) - route into the top tube directly behind the stem. ???? I think only the rear brake routes into the top tube. Pretty sure only the P4 has that configuration. Edited by jgerbodegrant 2011-09-30 1:08 AM |
2011-09-30 11:34 AM in reply to: #3706041 |
Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions jgerbodegrant - 2011-09-29 11:07 PM spudone - 2011-09-29 2:23 PM Aspiring - 2011-09-29 11:09 AM spudone - 2011-09-29 10:29 AM I thought it was interesting that Cervelo didn't mention their cable routing behind the stem -- i.e. bento boxes won't push flush with the stem unless you cut them up to run the cables through the box. Bento fits flush (mostly) on the P2. I think the older P2s routes cables into the downtube. The newer P2s and the P3/P4 (see photos on Cervelo's site) - route into the top tube directly behind the stem. ???? I think only the rear brake routes into the top tube. Pretty sure only the P4 has that configuration. Yep my bad - I stand corrected. |
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2011-09-30 5:51 PM in reply to: #3704694 |
Master 2356 Westlake Village , Ca. | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions Awesome article. Makes me reconsider a few things. 1. I may run an empty bottle between my arm for TT's. 2. Get rid of the frame bottle for TT's 3. I had no idea a rear hydration system worked well...I always thought it acted like a parachute. I also still like Lieto's set up for rear hydration as Bryan mentioned. 4. I have no stem to mount a Bento to 5. Knowing now a rear hydration unit works fairly well, I may start carrying a spare kit behind the seat for all races... |
2011-09-30 6:49 PM in reply to: #3704694 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions Yeah, Dusty, here's what I am thinking of doing. I have a HydroTail I used for the past few seasons but took it off when I moved to the X-Lab Gorilla cage between the aero bars and one on the down tube. I always carried my repair stuff in a bag either on the far back of the Hydrotail or under the seat this year. Now I am going to get the X-Lab carbon wing, put a single cage on the back of it and strap the tubular repair bag either above or below it. Then I can keep the downtube cage for training, giving me three on the bike, and take it off for racing, giving me just front and rear. I can race all distances like that even though for an Olympic I only need one bottle. Normally I would take off the rear system but it actually seems to be a benefit having it back there so now I would leave it on. |
2011-09-30 7:24 PM in reply to: #3704694 |
Veteran 285 | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions Great article.
I guess no more ridiculing folks for the behind the seat mounts.
I don't carry hydration since I just do sprints but I guess I'll add a between the bar mount. Also, I wish they had done the seat tube test on the SC with the bontrager aero bottle.
Thanks. |
2011-09-30 7:53 PM in reply to: #3704694 |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Good Article from Cervelo on Hydration solutions Regarding the top mounted bottle, I noticed the rider's hands were together and elbows out a little, so there was a gap for the bottle to fill in. I'm curious if I should adapt to this as I'll ride with my forearms pretty straight forward. The bottle actually adds to frontal area in my setup whereas it fills in a gap for the example. It'd be interesting to see how detrimental a two bottle rear setup actually is, when compared to the one bottle they used. I would guess that it depends on how narrow that it could be set up and yaw would have to stay lower, more so than the 1 bottle. I don't use one now because I'm not training for Full IM's. In training, I don't care and will throw on a Camelbak for the really long rides which can hold way more than two bottles will. |
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