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Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
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Sub $2000 Tri Bikes remain an important category.
Sub $2000 Tri Bikes are an unimportant category.
The first bike you should buy is a road bike.
The first bike you should buy is a tri bike.
This is a multiple choice poll.

2011-10-10 7:40 PM
in reply to: #3718187

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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?

Anectodally speaking, I believe that yes, my tri bike enables me to run faster off the bike... in certain situation. IF the bike course is long and/or flat, yes. I've unwisely chosen the road bike for a few of these races because I was "mad at" my tri bike (yes, I'm being honest). I wound up with fatigued arms and shoulders from riding all-out in the drops for 56 miles (in the case of the long course). This undue fatigue definitely affected my form on the run. Otherwise, nah.  

As far as your question about that entering into my decision to purchase a tri bike - no way. I bought a tri bike because A.) I wanted to ride faster during races and, B.) I wanted a new toy. 

For the record, the most I've spent on a tri bike is $2200 for my current Trek Speed Concept 7.0 This bike had better last me for the 5 years my previous ride did. And yes, I'd spend way more if I had the cash, but 2K is a pretty penny. 

 



2011-10-10 7:47 PM
in reply to: #3717934

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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
Tom Demerly. - 2011-10-10 1:52 PM

Quick question:

If: The first bike a person buys ought be a road bike;

Then: Athletes should own two bikes, a road bike and a tri bike. Correct?



I'm not doing the N+1 thing. I'm being serious. I think "athletes" need more than a tri bike. I think any one who is serious about being in control of their bicycle should spend time on a mountain bike off road. Or at the least, a cross bike off road. Nothing will teach you better control of your bike which will make all of us safer.
2011-10-10 7:52 PM
in reply to: #3718505

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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?

I'm an abyssmal mountain biker but I took second in our state cyclocross championship years ago and I would agree on that count. Cyclocross also teaches you mounts and dismounts like no other sport- including triathlon.

The heck of it is, most new triathletes don't understand what cyclocross is and likely aren't open to the idea to riding offroad, either MTB or 'cross, to learn bike handling.

2011-10-10 7:56 PM
in reply to: #3718243

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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
jmhpsu93 - 2011-10-10 4:23 PM

Aspiring - 2011-10-10 5:00 PM

Guess I'm one of the few dissenters.

I wanted a good entry-level bike that I could built upon over time. I picked the P2C to have an aero carbon frame and decent components. The cheapest bike I considered was the $2k Felt model.

If I was uncertain about triathlon and didn't want to invest that much money, I would have bought an entry-level road bike instead.

 

I wouldn't consider ANY $2K bike "entry level" and even less the P2C.



Trek's entry level downhill mountain bike is over $4500. Coming from that world, $2000 is a bargain.
2011-10-10 7:58 PM
in reply to: #3718509

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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
Tom Demerly. - 2011-10-10 7:52 PM

I'm an abyssmal mountain biker but I took second in our state cyclocross championship years ago and I would agree on that count. Cyclocross also teaches you mounts and dismounts like no other sport- including triathlon.

The heck of it is, most new triathletes don't understand what cyclocross is and likely aren't open to the idea to riding offroad, either MTB or 'cross, to learn bike handling.



Which is unfortunate.
2011-10-10 8:03 PM
in reply to: #3717925

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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
Seeing it from the manufacturer's POV, I don't see making an intro tri bike. The cost of jigging , cutting, welding and producing frames in tri geometry doesn't pay at this price point. The volume in road bikes make that a profitable product. I simply don't see selling enough tri bikes in each size to justify swapping out my production schedule to do so. Sure, Sora components and Alex wheels drive the price down. But for me to weld frames in a profitable quantity isn't worth the distraction from entry level road and mountain bikes.


2011-10-10 8:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
I bought my first real "bike" as a tribike.  Not sure why, just knew I wanted to do triathlons and said since I don't really like biking other than doing triathlons, I'll just get a tri bike.  Then when I finally got a road bike, I didn't like the STI shifters. I sold the road bike and used it to get my P2C.  I finally got an entry level used Orbea, but would love a nice carbon road bike for hilly rides and group rides.  Just don't have the $$ for it.  I do love riding my tri bike though, thank god!

but you soon learn you do need two bikes, if anything, just as a back up when you need to ship your bike 2 weeks before a race or if it has to be in the shop for a week.


Edited by turtlegirl 2011-10-10 8:17 PM
2011-10-10 8:17 PM
in reply to: #3717925

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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
IMO for the simple fact that not everyone has a ton of cash to spend
2011-10-10 8:20 PM
in reply to: #3717925

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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?

All of my bikes have been second hand.

Rode my first season on a $120 walmart special off of craigslist.

In December after first season, I paid $1050 for a 2006 P2-SL with an ultegra load out. I love it. Honestly, any tri bike I buy after this one will be for sheer vanity purposes lol. 

2011-10-10 8:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
When I first got into to tri 3 years ago I bought a $500 road bike for my first year of racing. Didn't have clipless pedals and was using the a triple chainring. The next year I bought a 2009 Specialized Transition Expert that was a left over and were on sale since the my LBS was making room for the new inventory. I got it for $2000 with pedals and Thrivent shoes. That year I raced on that bike pretty much stock. But over the offseason I have added parts and built her up to where she is a mean machine. Easton Attack Aero Bars, Adamo Road Saddle, Rotor 3D Crank with Rotor 52/36 Q-Rings, Plant X 82 Front 101 Rear Wheelset, Garmin Edge 800, and for Xmas the Fiance is getting me a Wheelbuilder disc cover. Yes I've put money into, but goes to show my bike I bought for $2K has served me well! Finished Ironman 70.3 Pocono Mountain with a 22.0 MPH avg bike split. We all start out somewhere but in the end it's not all about the bike, its about the engine that makes the bike move. I know people that can do sub 1hr 40k TT on a fixed gear TT build for under $1K.
2011-10-10 8:39 PM
in reply to: #3718522

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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?

pitt83 - 2011-10-10 9:03 PM Seeing it from the manufacturer's POV, I don't see making an intro tri bike. The cost of jigging , cutting, welding and producing frames in tri geometry doesn't pay at this price point. The volume in road bikes make that a profitable product. I simply don't see selling enough tri bikes in each size to justify swapping out my production schedule to do so. Sure, Sora components and Alex wheels drive the price down. But for me to weld frames in a profitable quantity isn't worth the distraction from entry level road and mountain bikes.

This gets me thinking actually.  Obviously these, what I would consider very expensive, bikes, are "worth" the price tag, because someone out there is willing to pay that much for them.  Can't say they're overpriced if they're selling at that price.

But, what I wonder is... what's the actual cost to manufacture one of these bikes?  What kind of profit margin are the manufacturers turning on these things?  Obviously the higher end bikes you're going to have R&D factors as well, plus retail overhead, etc., but I would be surprised at all to hear that the more expensive the bike, the much great percentage of the price is going to profit.

Anyone have any clue on this?



2011-10-10 9:22 PM
in reply to: #3717971

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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
Goosedog - 2011-10-10 3:11 PM

All other triathlon bikes were doomed by the new Shiv.

You live in a different world than I do.

2011-10-10 10:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
I rode my dads old shwinn two years ago for 2 short tris. It had to be from the 1980s...I decided Iwas only buying a bike to ride tris, so I went straight to a Tri bike for my first. I bought a 2008 p2sl on clearance for around $1400. Im now riding IM cozumel in 7 weeks on the same bike in (i hope) around 10.5-11 hours.I say sub $2k is very important. If there are buyers someone should design something sexy for the price point.
2011-10-10 10:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?

So, let me get this straight. For "most" people, an entry-level road bike should be their starter bike. If they decide to get "serious" about triathlon, they should get an entry-level triathlon bike? If they get "serious" about road racing, they should buy what, another entry-level road bike?

Seems to me that the progression should be entry-level road bike -> "competitive" bike.

ETA: I'm assuming that the under/over $2K refers to the new full retail price. If you can get it at a bargain, more power to you.



Edited by Aspiring 2011-10-10 10:13 PM
2011-10-10 10:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
I can easily go to eBay right now and put together a carbon/105 tri bike for under $2k. Yes, the frame is from China but so are a lot of frames by named companies. I'm also surprised Giant doesn't drop the price of the Trinity to under $2k, and sweep the entry level market. However, for what you can get in a used bike that's a couple of years old, in the $2k range, who would buy new?

2011-10-10 10:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?

This doesn't answer the OP's questions at all.

Just trying to fit in.



2011-10-10 10:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?

Buy what you can afford.....and ride it like you stole it!!!

 

2011-10-10 10:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
There is now a $1,550 Shiv, so Specialized apparently thinks it's still a relevant category.
2011-10-10 11:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?

Like any other bike type there will always be a demand for entry level equipment. Some people regardless of experience in the sport can and will spend what they are comfortable with on a bike. I know my next "bike" adventure is going to be a mountain bike. I will buy the best bike I can put under my butt. If all I can afford at the time is an entry level bike then so be it. At least I got a bike I could enjoy the sport with... 

I have helped a couple of people get started in triathlon and been asked the question. What type of bike should I get? I don't recommend either road or tri. What I do offer is the pros and cons for each. In the end it is best to equip someone entering the sport with the tools to make the decision on their own. Buying a bike is a personal decision that doesn't need to be clouded with other peoples opinions on "type".

2011-10-10 11:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?

I am someone who switched from tri's to cycling exclusively, and I ride my 2008 P2SL Dura-Ace at TT's now, in addition to a recently purchased Cannondale CAAD10-4.

As a college student, price is important to me. I need something that has the highest cost-benefit ratio. The $2k price point had as much aerodynamic technology as I have needed such as a bladed fork, aero frame, hidden cables, and rear wheel cut out. I have gotten much faster during TT's due to much more riding volume and intensity (from 23-ish to 26+ mph), and the bike is not holding me back at this level (category 3).

If the hypothetical new triathlete that we are proposing is for sure going to stick with the sport, then they should buy the best (best body position and frame aerodynamics) TT/triathlon geometry bike that is within their means. In a sport where the median income is around $126,000 (Source: USAT), many individuals can afford the $4K+ bike. However, even many of these individuals are frugal and want the best bang for their buck. Here's a chart that I've found that corresponds with much of the other data that I've seen about the effectiveness of a TT equipment versus cost.

As for a triathlete who doesn't know how they feel about the sport yet (like me in the beginning): road bike plus clip on aerobars. I did this for my first 3 triathlons on a bike almost 2x as old as I was at the time. I was on the podium for my AG in all 3 sprints I did, got seriously hooked, and knew that I was going to continue in the sport. So I purchased a TT bike that fit my bill.

So, in summary: if you know you're going to be in the sport for some time, buy the best TT bike you can afford. If you don't, then buy/rent a road bike with some aerobars.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me, the $2k bike allowed me to be seriously competitive without breaking the bank.



Edited by Kickback 2011-10-10 11:11 PM
2011-10-11 6:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
Tom Demerly. - 2011-10-10 2:43 PM

Has the sub $2000 triathlon geometry bike become less important?

What do you recommend a new triathlete buy: Road bike or Tri bike?

Why?

Inquiring minds (and bike companies) what to know.

Cat with bowl on his head and other fun photos for best answers.

 

 

 

This is probably the most important price point in cycling, and is certainly still relevant to 95% of the people out there.

If i was to recommend a bike to a person starting out, i would want to know more about the person, like their level of competitiveness, and if they usually go all out for the endeavors they get into.

If this person has a large income and always buys the best stuff, money is no object, then i would recommend a road bike to start, explain about group rides and learning bike handling stuff, they will then upgrade to a TT bike, once they can ride a bike safely.

If this person is on a limited income, i would recommend a bike that could start out as a road bike and easily be converted to a TT type set up. 2 bikes come to mind, the older Cervelo soloist with the reversable seat post (used), and the Kestrel Talon.

But i think the bike that gets overlooked the most is the Kestrel Talon series. They are in the $1500 dollar range on line in Tri or Road format, carbon frame Shimano 105 equipped, you can get the road version to start, and if you want, you can retrofit to Tri version and between selling parts to retrofit to Tri, probably cost nothing.  you can also go the opposite way, get a Talon Tri, and if Triathlon is not your thing, convert it to road.

These are my opinions, seeing i build all my bikes, merely for the fact that most bikes at the price point i want to spend do not come equipped with the parts i want on them. Seems like most manufacturers always short change the consumer with sub prime parts on a part of the bike to justify a "cheaper" price, so they can charge more for their name on it.

 

 



2011-10-11 6:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
Tom Demerly. - 2011-10-10 1:43 PM

Has the sub $2000 triathlon geometry bike become less important?

What do you recommend a new triathlete buy: Road bike or Tri bike?

Why?

Inquiring minds (and bike companies) what to know.

Cat with bowl on his head and other fun photos for best answers.

 

 

I think you, you're company etc are over thinking this whole issue. Peoples biking needs change, evolve, whatever you want to call it - they will buy what fits their needs and what they can afford.

In my case, I road a hybrid for 7 years. I lived near a rails to trails path and a nature preserve. I only had about $400 so that is the bike that worked for me at that time.

We moved, now I have miles of flat, wide open farm roads. Flat=windy=the hybrid is a bear to ride out here. So I bought a road bike.

Raced a few triathlons on the road bike, exposed myself to all the really cool triathlon bikes, wanted to try longer races, wanted to try to go fast. Now I have a tri bike.

Price point is very important to me. My tri bike is a Felt B16, end of the year closeout sale - purchase price was under $2000 before taxes. If I wouldn't have been able to find a tri bike under that price I would not have bought one. That was my price limit.

2011-10-11 7:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
rkreuser - 2011-10-10 8:33 PM

$2000 is very relevant. So is $1000, even more relevant. To your questions:

MOST people should buy a road bike first, IMHO. Unless you're sure 1) you'll be with the sport for a while and 2) you know how to choose a tri bike (which most first time buyers don't), or 3) you're at the pointy end of the non-peleton and need the extra 15% aero speed in your rookie season, I just don't see the point.

Next, it's amazing what the marketing machine has done in the last 10 years. The $1000 QR Kilo, aluminum, used to be the standard for 'entry level'. In the last decade, though, industry has pushed that up to $2,000 (per your rule of thumb), and convinced you that a wheel cutout, carbon, lighter weight, aero wheels, drink bladders, DA, etc are essential on an ENTRY level bike. They're not. What's essential is a good position, because the air the person moves is 10x more impactful than the air the bike moves. That's all.

The next big bike company won't be the ones that succesfully convinces people to pay another $500 for the 'next best thing'. The next big bike company will be the one that 1) develops the killer app (an entry-level tri bike), and 2) finds a way to make their brand sticky. Easy formula: Get a million people to ride your bike at entry level, and give them a reason to stay with your brand when the portion of the folks that stay with the sport upgrade - which no one has figured out how to do, except companies like Softride and Zipp who have a loyal following due to their unique frame design and ride characteristics, and to a lesser degree, Kestrel and the Airfoil.  

It's amazing to me that there's really no differentiation between felt, cervelo, trek, specialized, etc. The differences are measured in milliseconds (from a performance perspective) and cents (from a monetary perspective). There's a way to attack that market. No one's brave enough because they're making money as-is.  

ETA: Just for perspective: I'm on a 2007 Felt B2 that Tom sold me (in 2006) - top of the line at the time - that features aluminum AND carbon, external cable routing, no wheel cutout. All of 5 years ago. Kona winners were riding equivalent technology at the time, with no real impact on winning bike times. Bike technolgy is very, very overrated. It's the strongest kool-aid. The cheapest bike that puts you in the best position is my vote. And it can be done for <$1K.



A LARGE majority of design is dictated by the UCI. Think Floyd Landis and the praying mantis position. As soon as he tried it, the UCI shut it down. Buyers are buying these bikes to race them and if they're not compliant with the sport's governing body standards, a manufacturer risks making an Edsel which no one wants.

Hence, you get design homogeneity because of the rules.
2011-10-11 8:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?

I am certain that my 2011 Trek Speed Concept 7.5 is only a teensy, tiny bit faster than my 2009 Felt S22.

It is a lot cooler, though.

2011-10-11 8:17 AM
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Subject: RE: Is the Entry Price Point Triathlon Bike Doomed?
I received my first roadie (may it RIP) as a gift. It was a 2005 Cannondale R400 aluminum pretty much top to bottom. After my first three tris I decided to get a tri-specific bike but had a missus at the time who was more frugal so I settled on a Felt S32 (aluminum frame, low-end components) that I found on sale at the local bike shop since it was the last one around, in my size magically, for $1088, and they threw in a bottle holder and a bike computer. Had it not been for that bike, I never would've been able to get a tri bike. Five years and about 30 races later, that sucker is still kickin' and serving me well.

So, yes, there's definitely a market for the entry-level tri bike and I would HIGHLY encourage bike-makers to offer them. They would get more people into the sport. And if you can buy a $900 Trek tri bike and it performs well, then chances are you're going to someday, maybe, have more money and buy a $1900 Trek tri bike. And then maybe some day a $2900 Trek tri bike. I've found brand loyalty to be extremely high among triathletes.
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