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2011-10-24 2:15 PM

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Subject: Is a BQ effort possible next year?

Hi BT, I'd really like your input on this!  I would really like to give a BQ a shot next year at the Chicago Marathon and I'm wondering if you think it's possible.  I haven't done a marathon since 2000 (also Chicago) when I was 19 and barely trained for it...yeah, I can't do that today.  Since then I didn't do much for running and gained weight, yada yada, until January 2009 when I decided to get back into shape.

Well, getting back into shape helped me find my love for running again and I started doing some races starting in 2010.  I did my first HM in April that year and I did ok (1:47:xx) considering I only ran 3 times in March due to a calf injury.  I have my 2nd HM this Saturday which I'm sure I can do under 1:35 now, how much faster than that I don't know.  From my uneducated guess I could be flirting with 1:32 or so based on my training runs.

So what do you think?  My logs are accurate with time and distance, yet not a whole lot of detail.  Hopefully some of you can tell me if I'm crazy or not!



2011-10-24 2:24 PM
in reply to: #3736102

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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?

It's always possible to give the effort.

As far as actually BQing...I'd say yes with a lot of smart training.

2011-10-24 2:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?
I'm kind of in the same boat.  I did my first HM this year at 1:43 and just did my second one on a much harder course in 1:37.  I've considered trying to make a run next year for a BQ.   I know it will take a lot of running to do it, that's for sure.  
2011-10-24 2:43 PM
in reply to: #3736102

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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?
Many things are possible.  The question is are you willing to commit yourself to making the best run at your goal that you possibly can.  That has little to do with the actual marathon next year.  It mostly has to do with your willingness to put in consistent, purposeful training from now until you toe the line next year.  Getting out for those runs in the cold and rain.  Skipping some activities to ensure you get adequate rest to support your training.  Eating well.  etc.
2011-10-24 2:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?

er... so, it sounds like you've gotta' do a sub 3:05 Marathon.  That's a huge leap from a 1:47 HM. 

Frankly- No, I don't think you can do it...  Seems like too large an improvement in one year for most bodies to adapt.  The post above me talks about committment and training.  that's all well and good and I believe you can do that.  But as you increase your training and speed- things start to hurt.  Bodies only recover and adapt so fast.  It doesn't matter how hard you train, you will only be able to build so much so fast.   Maybe for the 2013 Chicago marathon tho'.

 

but- I'd be more than happy to see you prove me wrong. 



Edited by morey000 2011-10-24 2:53 PM
2011-10-24 2:52 PM
in reply to: #3736102

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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?

Maybe.  But I say you have a lot of work to do for a 2012 shot.   I would say at least another year to get experience in the marathon.  Very few people can go out and BQ on thier first marathon (or a 12 year hiatus).   So many things can go wrong when you are running that hard for that long.  Experience will make you wiser in your training and racing.

And one thing I can say about a BQ attempt too early, if you train your butt off and don't get it (or worse blow up like i did), you can lose the drive to do another qualifying run because the work is very hard if the results aren't there.  Trained my butt off last year but I blew up in Chicago last year going for a BQ and have no desire to try it again for a few years.  I am still doing marathons (got one in two weeks, another in April, and one next fall), but I am only running them for "fun".  If you look at some of the advanced marathon plans, the are freaking tough.   

I wish I would have done at least one more marathon for experience and cut my difference in half and went for a BQ this year instead of last year.



2011-10-24 3:13 PM
in reply to: #3736151

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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?

JohnnyKay - 2011-10-24 2:43 PM Many things are possible.  The question is are you willing to commit yourself to making the best run at your goal that you possibly can.  That has little to do with the actual marathon next year.  It mostly has to do with your willingness to put in consistent, purposeful training from now until you toe the line next year.  Getting out for those runs in the cold and rain.  Skipping some activities to ensure you get adequate rest to support your training.  Eating well.  etc.

Dam, I'm out now...

2011-10-24 4:43 PM
in reply to: #3736215

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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?

Thanks for the replies everyone, all of it is exactly what I want to hear to tell you the truth.  I know it won't be easy, but I'm up for the challenge.  And really, if I don't make it I think I can at least come closer than I have ever imagined I can get before now with my running.  Triathlon is what I'm really into now but I won't have a lot of time for it next year, although I will have time to run so I might as well give it a shot!

For the record, I will be running a marathon in April next year for the experience...I know it's not much experience, but it's something!  Anyone recommend a good plan to follow for it?

2011-10-24 4:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?
My suggestion is to run this week's HM, then plug those results into McMillan's Running Calculator to see what it projects your current ability would be for a full marathon in comparable conditions.  At that point, you will have a rough idea of how much you need to improve to BQ, so you will have a better understanding of how close or far you are from achieving your goal.
2011-10-25 7:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?
Maybe try higdon intermediate 2 plan first. It will have u do 30m (10tempo/20long) back to back on three different weekends. If you can handle that, move up to an advanced plan like Pitz or higdon advanced for your Bq attempt. I just wouldnt start with 60-70mpw plan for your first one.
2011-10-25 7:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?
tbcoffee - 2011-10-24 5:43 PM

Thanks for the replies everyone, all of it is exactly what I want to hear to tell you the truth.  I know it won't be easy, but I'm up for the challenge.  And really, if I don't make it I think I can at least come closer than I have ever imagined I can get before now with my running.  Triathlon is what I'm really into now but I won't have a lot of time for it next year, although I will have time to run so I might as well give it a shot!

For the record, I will be running a marathon in April next year for the experience...I know it's not much experience, but it's something!  Anyone recommend a good plan to follow for it?

Doing one in April is a great idea. I would argue moreso for the lessons you'll learn in (and benefits you'll get from) training than the race experience itself, although race experience is helpful too.  Take the training for the April race very seriously, as a kind of dress rehearsal for your training for the next one.  Recover from the April race, then go for it.  I like the Pfitzinger plans.  I'll be following one of them myself this winter.  If I were you, I'd try to do the 55mpw plan for April, and then the 70mpw plan for the next race.  That means beginning to build your weekly mileage soon -- like yesterday!

Good luck!



2011-10-25 8:12 AM
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2011-10-25 10:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?
I am sure there are other good ones, but the Pfitz plans are definitely solid options.
2011-10-25 12:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?

You have a qualifying time of 3:05, which means you likely want to be a couple minutes to actually get a registration slot. That puts you at just under 7:00 per mile. It will be very difficult based on your current performance. Transposing HM times into M times assumes you have the mileage and training base, which you don't have.

I would not say it's impossible though. You have the winter to work on building mileage and some speedwork. Either a Higdon or Pfitz plan would work. Because you're in Chicago you'll probably be doing a lot of treadmill time, which a lot of people find pretty miserable, unless you can run in the weather. An April marathon is an excellent motivation tool plus you need the (recent) experience of a full marathon under your belt.

After that, recover 100% and start another 16 week plan. You'll be in great shape for the "A" race in the fall. A HM ~5-6 weeks out is a good way to gauge progress and whether a BQ is realistic or not. If not, just PR and have a really good time. It takes most people several shots to BQ. Weather, stress, injury, etc. all have a way of throwing a wrench in the works and you have to roll with it sometimes.

2011-10-25 12:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?
One problem with Chicago, it's so late even if you qualify it might be sold out.  This happened to a friend of mine this year.  Normally they would move him to next year but the qualifying standard for next year is 10 min faster and he didn't meet that cutoff.
2011-10-25 2:04 PM
in reply to: #3737525

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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?
mlanahan - 2011-10-25 1:24 PM

One problem with Chicago, it's so late even if you qualify it might be sold out.  This happened to a friend of mine this year.  Normally they would move him to next year but the qualifying standard for next year is 10 min faster and he didn't meet that cutoff.


If the BAA runs registration on approximately the same calendar dates and by the same cutoff standards as they did this year, then the Boston Marathon registration for their 2013 race will be closed by the time you run the Chicago Marathon. That's my understanding anyway. More information HERE.

You would be running Chicago in 2012 for a chance to run Boston in 2014.

Also to consider. Chicago has an enormous field and requires dodging bodies on the course. Yes, it is flat, but since it's so hard to run perfect tangents through the crowds, you are more likely to run long, over 26.2 miles. For this reason, if you are right on the edge of BQing, then Chicago might not be the best place to do this. YMMV.


2011-10-25 9:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?

Thanks again for all the replies everyone!  I'll definitely look into the Pfitzinger plans.

Also, I didn't think about the course being so crowded.  I remember when I did it at ONLY 27000 runners I was still walking after the starting line.  I'm sure I can easily make the B corral but I doubt that would matter much as it would still be crowded.  I'll think this over and make a decision after this weekend's half.

2011-10-26 7:33 AM
in reply to: #3738223

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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?
tbcoffee - 2011-10-25 10:03 PM

Thanks again for all the replies everyone!  I'll definitely look into the Pfitzinger plans.

Also, I didn't think about the course being so crowded.  I remember when I did it at ONLY 27000 runners I was still walking after the starting line.  I'm sure I can easily make the B corral but I doubt that would matter much as it would still be crowded.  I'll think this over and make a decision after this weekend's half.

Don't worry about the crowd size at Chicago, it isn't a problem if you are in the right corral.  I was in the B corral last year and while yes, it is crowded, everyone is pretty much going the same pace as you.  If anything, the big crowds help you keep you pace in check.  I had no problem doing 7:00 miles the first 3-4 miles (even while loosing my shoe at mile 1).   The only thing a big crowd will affect is your tangents if you don't have the first few turns memorized.

2011-10-29 6:45 PM
in reply to: #3736102

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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?

Ok, so I ran the HM today and made it in 1:32:10, which I'm very happy about!  I was thinking how none of my training since April 2010 has been geared specifically toward running since I've only been training for tris since then.  I haven't been consistently going over 30mpw until recently.  Would being almost completely focused on running make a big difference?

Maybe I'm just trying to make it seem to myself that I can do it, but I understand it will be tough and may not make it, but I'll give it a shot!

2011-10-29 7:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?
tbcoffee - 2011-10-29 7:45 PM

Ok, so I ran the HM today and made it in 1:32:10, which I'm very happy about!  

Congrats!

I was thinking how none of my training since April 2010 has been geared specifically toward running since I've only been training for tris since then.  I haven't been consistently going over 30mpw until recently.  Would being almost completely focused on running make a big difference?

Maybe I'm just trying to make it seem to myself that I can do it, but I understand it will be tough and may not make it, but I'll give it a shot!

Yes.  Very much so.

2011-10-29 8:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?
tbcoffee - 2011-10-29 6:45 PM

Ok, so I ran the HM today and made it in 1:32:10, which I'm very happy about!  I was thinking how none of my training since April 2010 has been geared specifically toward running since I've only been training for tris since then.  I haven't been consistently going over 30mpw until recently.  Would being almost completely focused on running make a big difference?

Maybe I'm just trying to make it seem to myself that I can do it, but I understand it will be tough and may not make it, but I'll give it a shot!

McMillan predicts your marathon pace at 3:14 and that is assuming you'll be able gain the endurance. On top of that, you have to get more fit to drop at least 9-10 minutes. You haven't been training with much mileage so provided you stay away from injury and illness, it might be possible but it will be tough


2011-10-30 9:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Is a BQ effort possible next year?
m2tx - 2011-10-29 9:55 PM
tbcoffee - 2011-10-29 6:45 PM

Ok, so I ran the HM today and made it in 1:32:10, which I'm very happy about!  I was thinking how none of my training since April 2010 has been geared specifically toward running since I've only been training for tris since then.  I haven't been consistently going over 30mpw until recently.  Would being almost completely focused on running make a big difference?

Maybe I'm just trying to make it seem to myself that I can do it, but I understand it will be tough and may not make it, but I'll give it a shot!

McMillan predicts your marathon pace at 3:14 and that is assuming you'll be able gain the endurance. On top of that, you have to get more fit to drop at least 9-10 minutes. You haven't been training with much mileage so provided you stay away from injury and illness, it might be possible but it will be tough

I agree, but OP has a long time to train.  If he becomes run-focussed (i.e., gets mileage up) I think that shaving 10-15 minutes off of that time is very much in the cards.

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