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Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP!
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 2005-09-28 4:54 PM |
Coach  9167     Stairway to Seven |  Subject: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP!So I have this friend... We have known each other for about 15 years, and spend a lot of time together. He gives me unwanted advice that is often counter productive to my goals. His general philosophy is that you need to push yourself, try do to more than you think you are capable of doing. In otherwords, push through your mental barriers. Personally, I can identifiy plenty of phsyical barriers that I have been working on over the past year and a half since surgery. I have gone from running only 30 seconds at a time, to doing a 10 K...(twice), I have gone from barely being able to walk 1/4 mile and not ridden a bike in several years to doing both a sprint and on Oly this summer. Certainly I havn't made these gains by "not challanging myself." It takes way more energy for me to argue with him than it does to just not talk to him about my athletic endeavors. In addition, when we do things together, he often subltly (sometimes not so subltly) pushes me to do more than I want to, making it very non-enjoyable. Examples: Rock climbing 2 weekends ago... I wanted to go to an easily accessed place with lots of moderate climbs to set up a number of routes and get in plenty of climbs to both enjoy the feeling of movement up the rock and get in some nice sustainable endurance for my out of shape forearm and upper body muscles. he wanted to go to a harder to access place, with fewer people and harder climbs so that he could practice his leading. He refused to go to the place I wanted to go. The end result was that I started out on harder climbs, wore myself out after just two, adn didn't enjoy the few easier climbs that were available. In the end, he asked me why I didn't want to try leading anything or try the harder climbs. In triathlon training terms, that would be like me wanting to do a long slow, enjoyable country bike ride, and him wanting to do hill repeats just for the practice. He asked me how I recovered from the 10k (we ran it together, even though my original goal for myself was do complete it by doing six 10 minute blocks with 1 minute walking inbetween). So I told him that my patellar tendons still hurt because I thought that I pushed myself too hard. His response, "Well you have to challenge yourself once in awhiel..." Those are a few examples of what talking to this friend about my athletic and recreational goals is like, and how difficult it sometimes is to do things together. The problem is, that in almost all other respects, he is a great friend, fun to hang out with, a good dinner/movie parter without having to worry about "finding a date" for the weekends... Mostly I'm just venting, but if anyone has any thoughts about this sort of situation, feel free to post away! |
| 2005-09-28 4:56 PM in reply to: #255687 |
Champion 6931  Bellingham, Washington | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! I bet he believes in NO PAIN, NO GAIN. |
| 2005-09-28 5:05 PM in reply to: #255687 |
Elite 2553 Tucson, AZ | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! AdventureBear - 2005-09-28 1:54 PM The problem is, that in almost all other respects, he is a great friend, fun to hang out with, a good dinner/movie parter without having to worry about "finding a date" for the weekends... I'd hang out with him in those environments, but find a different group to workout with that would more closely match your goals. Pushing yourself like that makes the risk of getting injured very high. Not to mention you'll start to dread the workouts/activities. |
| 2005-09-28 5:11 PM in reply to: #255687 |
Elite 3088 Austin, TX Gold member | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! Tell him, flat out. If he gives you the "you have to push yourself once in a while" line, tell him that you do so regularly, but you like to do it intelligently. If he doesn't back off, tell him to cram it because you've pushed yourself plenty and you're not going to risk injuring youself because of his selfishness.. If he's a good friend, he should be able to handle the honesty of what you're telling him. Start polite and constructive, but hold your ground. |
| 2005-09-28 5:15 PM in reply to: #255687 |
Elite Veteran 748 northern Illinois | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! A good rule of thumb for gentle, effective verbal self-defense is not to argue with ideologues. You're wasting your breath. Just repeat your version of "I'm comfortable with my current trianing plans." "Or I'm confident about my current training plans." Or some such thing. Don't get sucked into arguing. There's no way out. But your assertion that you're confident or comfortable or certain... or something... is basically inarguable. It's how YOU feel. Good luck, Andrea |
| 2005-09-28 5:20 PM in reply to: #255687 |
Giver 18427 | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! Ditto what PirateGirl said. You definitely don't need to be training with him, as he apparently doesn't respect your goals. Make it clear to him that you think he's a great friend otherwise, and just hang out with him socialy. But if he keeps making comments that make you uncomfortable, drop him like a...like a...something you drop. Brain not finding simile. Stupid brain. |
| 2005-09-28 5:28 PM in reply to: #255687 |
Master 1573 Red Sox Nation | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! First off, congrats on achieving all those milestones!!!!  And Pal'y, vent away. We all have friends like this, and not just as it relates to sports. They are awesome, you love being with them (mostly), but for some reason, they just want to always one up you, and sometimes it comes at your physical expense. One of my challenges is to stop being a go along to get along. I'm new to tri. I should fess up and say I'm a dualthelet because I can't swim worth a d&*n. But, I'm too stubbron. I've let people cajole me into areas I don't want to be (5.9 rock climbs!!! Hello - Poultry in Motion was coined 4 me!  ) I don't know. Maybe this friend is jealous? How far you've come. Granted it sounds like they can maybe go faster, farther ... but you've got the slow steady success? I've had to make the decision to go at my own pace. I've got lots of friends who can swim better, bike faster/longer and leave me in the dust on the road. If I want to do what I want to do, I have to do it my way (sitting here nursing a strained calf from trying to follow). Love them, hang with them, and get them hooked on the joy contemplation during exercise instead of just beating their heads against a rock. It's hard to be selfish, but hey! Guess I'll change my signature to "It's all about me!" Keep up the good work! |
| 2005-09-28 5:31 PM in reply to: #255687 |
Champion 11641 Fairport, NY | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! When you make plans to train or do something training-like with him, state your intentions and follow through with them. If he initially agrees to go along with your plan and then doesn't follow through, let him go his own way. Make a plan, inform him of it and follow through with it. If he can't deal with that, he's not the right person for you to do these activities with. I've dealt with a similar situation with a training partner. It can be hard with friends, but when you refuse to let yourself be led into doing something you don't want to do, life just gets easier. |
| 2005-09-28 5:40 PM in reply to: #255687 |
Science Nerd 28760 Redwood City, California | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! I'm not trying to be rude or insult your friend, but it doesn't sound like he respects you very much. You clearly stated what you wanted to do and he wouldn't compromise on it, nor does it sound like he is ever willing to compromise. That's not fair to you. I would lay it out for him. If you aren't having fun when you're around him, you need to let him know. Congratulations on what you've been able to accomplish. You are clearly doing something right, even if your friend doesn't agree with you. |
| 2005-09-28 5:43 PM in reply to: #255687 |
| Elite Veteran 781 | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! I've been in this situation before. The answer, for me, was to finally flat out tell my friends what I was going to do for the workout, race, or whatever. And I then proceeded to work my plan. As it turns out, when we ride bikes together now, there is no expectation that we'll actually stay together. If I'm doing a hard workout, I'll double back to make sure my friend is okay, and vice versa, but the reality is that it is really hard to stay together when you have different goals and abilities. I don't know anything about rock climbing, but my guess is that you have to stay together so that is tougher. If it comes up again, decline the offer unless you know that you'll be doing the easier climbs. While I'd be flattered that my friends thought that I had their fitness levels, working out becomes, well, work, if every workout is a killer. I finally started enjoying my bike when I just did my own thing and each and every ride wasn't a race. And good job on all that you've accomplished. |
| 2005-09-28 6:54 PM in reply to: #255687 |
Elite 4344 | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! The well-meaning and the 15 years of friendship are the important words here. Your friend obviously feels close enough to you to give you same advice he gives to himself, and that is to push and push and push himself. I am sure you can be firm in sticking to your own physical needs and training limits. The real question is how to do it so that he realizes that what is good for him may not work for you without breaking up the friendship. I suggest that you show him your scar and your x-rays and your medical degree. Tell him you have to have the last word on what you are willing to plan on. He can go on his own or go with you, his choice. If he is smart, he'll choose to go with you. TW Edited by tech_geezer 2005-09-28 6:55 PM |
| 2005-09-28 7:37 PM in reply to: #255687 |
Extreme Veteran 563 Allen, TX | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! i didn't read any of the replies so i'll assume good advice has been dispensed and i can proceed with the bullshit: tell him to push through his mental barrier of being a dick and improve into semi-tolerable territory. when his jaw drops just say "no pain no gain". it's what i'd do. |
| 2005-09-29 12:03 AM in reply to: #255772 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! turqy - 2005-09-28 7:37 PM i didn't read any of the replies so i'll assume good advice has been dispensed and i can proceed with the bullshit: tell him to push through his mental barrier of being a dick and improve into semi-tolerable territory. when his jaw drops just say "no pain no gain". it's what i'd do. Turqy, you're right, great advice has already been given, but yours made me laugh the most! Thanks! |
| 2005-09-29 12:50 PM in reply to: #255772 |
Master 1938 La Crosse | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! turqy - 2005-09-28 8:37 PM tell him to push through his mental barrier of being a dick and improve into semi-tolerable territory. when his jaw drops just say "no pain no gain". it's what i'd do.  |
| 2005-09-29 1:02 PM in reply to: #255687 |
Extreme Veteran 563 Allen, TX | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! |
| 2005-09-29 1:20 PM in reply to: #255687 |
Champion 4902 Ottawa, Ontario | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! I guess everyone else pretty much covered it. Just be assertive and only do what you feel you want to do ... not what your friend insists you have to push yourself to do. |
| 2005-09-29 5:42 PM in reply to: #255687 |
Champion 7704 Williamston, Michigan | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! I wouldn't work out with him anymore. Also you know your body best and you know your own limitations. Don't get hurt |
| 2005-09-29 6:08 PM in reply to: #255687 |
Elite 3020 Bay Area, CA | Subject: RE: Well meanign friend giving unwanted advice...HELP! What I'm reading is that you have LET him change your goals. You state that it takes too much energy to argue with him. What this means is that you are somehow coming across as someone who just needs to be talked to, and then you will go along with his plan. I think this is more about you than about him, really. I mean, he knows what he wants to do, and apparently, is mostly getting what he wants, while you are all upset. NEVER argue. Then the other person is trying to win the argument, and after all, you might lose the argument. Just state what you are going to do and leave it at that. You don't have to justify yourself, or explain your medical issues, training needs, and so on and so on. For example, the 10k. Just walk when you had determined to walk. If he says, come on, run, then say firmly, but nicely - I am going to walk for a minute. This is a statement of FACT not an explanation. If he says something else to get you to go with him, just repeat until he gets it through his head that at this minute, you are walking, not running and if he wants to run he should go on ahead. On the rock climbing, the key there is that he REFUSED to go to the easier place - so... why didn't you REFUSE to go to the harder place? Just say, I'm not ready for that yet, I'm not comfortable. You could offer a compromise - let's go to the easier place a few times and then we can go to the harder place. If he won't back down - then let him go on his own. After all, you did CHOOSE to go with him. Just say no if you realize it's not going to work for you. Not in a mean way, but - No, I'm just not ready yet. No, I wouldn't be comfortable. No, I need to practice first. It sounds like he's a good guy in other respects, so I'd bet he doesn't even realize that he's coming across this way - stand up for yourself and don't get talked into doing what he wants just because he wants it. Make sure you want it too, then say yes. |
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