General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Speed ... A Lack Thereof Rss Feed  
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2005-11-26 2:41 PM

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Subject: Speed ... A Lack Thereof

Ok, I know I am slow.  I just want to know if I am too slow. 

Today was the first day I have trained twice in the same day in about 15 years.  It was GREAT!  I have to say it was not a struggle and man was it fun.  Tomorrow is my day off, so we'll see how much fun it all REALLY was.  ;-)

So I ran 5 miles this a.m. in 52 minutes.  That's about average when I feel good. 

Then this afternoon I swam laps for the first time since grade school.  Haha!  It took 43 minutes to go 1500 meters. 

I am not interested in winning anything.  I just want to be able to complete an olympic triathlon without killing myself and at a respectable pace. 

Oh, and is it ok to do the breaststroke for the whole swim?  Are there ever rules about which strokes are allowed?

Thanks again!



2005-11-26 3:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof

5 miles in 52 minutes = 10:24/mile pace = respectable, especially at a training pace, assuming you're at a fairly low level on the perceived exertion scale.

43 minutes/1500 = 2:52/100, eh, maybe not as "respectable," but not shabby for all breaststroke.

Truth be told, the best measure of respectability is within yourself, how well you are doing at different distances, how much you improve. Your speed in comparison to others is, for the most part, irrelevant.

All breaststroke, any mixture of any stroke, floating, walking (if you can touch) is all permissible in the swim. Fastest, most efficient stroke  is the crawl. Suggest you get a swim coach, find a masters swim group, check out Total Immersion, get frommer to adopt you, or all of the above.

Check out http://www.usatriathlon.org/Rules_Officials/rules.htm for the short list of rules by the governing body of most US triathlons.

2005-11-26 3:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof
VikingMom - 2005-11-26 10:41 AM

Ok, I know I am slow.  I just want to know if I am too slow.

Is Peter Reid fast? Is he slow? He wasn't fast enough to win at Kona this year. The only person that determines if your speed is adequate is you. This should be judged by your own perception of your ability measured against the effort applied.

Today was the first day I have trained twice in the same day in about 15 years.  It was GREAT!  I have to say it was not a struggle and man was it fun.  Tomorrow is my day off, so we'll see how much fun it all REALLY was.  ;-)

So I ran 5 miles this a.m. in 52 minutes.  That's about average when I feel good.

Then this afternoon I swam laps for the first time since grade school.  Haha!  It took 43 minutes to go 1500 meters.

Great Job! Nice workouts! 

I am not interested in winning anything.  I just want to be able to complete an olympic triathlon without killing myself and at a respectable pace.

Is there an "unrespectable" pace to complete an Oly?

Oh, and is it ok to do the breaststroke for the whole swim?  Are there ever rules about which strokes are allowed?

Not that I'm aware of.

2005-11-26 4:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof
You are already doing the distances (at least swim and run) for an oly and it is just November.  You will be more than ready to enter and finish with a respectable time later this spring.  Keep it up!
2005-11-26 6:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof

My definition of fast enough is just not coming in at the back of the pack.  Even the middle of the back of the pack is ok.  I just don't want to be a trailer.  That's all. 

PGoldberger, THANKS!  That is really encouraging. 

2005-11-26 6:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof
VikingMom - 2005-11-26 6:04 PM

My definition of fast enough is just not coming in at the back of the pack.  Even the middle of the back of the pack is ok.  I just don't want to be a trailer.  That's all. 

PGoldberger, THANKS!  That is really encouraging. 

Danielle, we have a little saying around here:

DFL beats DNF beats DNS

Which means that "dead friggin' last" is better than "did not finish" which is better than "did not start." As a matter of fact, DFL is almost a badge of honor in these parts. Laughing The "trailer," by the way, usually gets the biggest round of applause, probably because all the participants are there to see him/her finish.



2005-11-26 6:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof
Fast is totally subjective.

Is a specific workout you did the fastest you've ever done it personally? Than you are getting faster and have something to be proud of. The fact that you got your bottom off the couch and did things is far more than most people can say!

If you set goals for yourself and work hard to achieve those goals, then you are doing what you want.

A good attitude and good training will get you anywhere that you want to go. And the speed will come with time.
2005-11-26 6:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof
I generally agree with everyone above. If you tried the best you could, then that's all that matters. As you train more and more, you will get faster and more efficient. Not everyone is gifted with "natural ability" nor can everyone train a ton of hours a day. For all I know, you only train twice a week so it is all relative. For my first two tris, you already have a faster run than me so you wouldn't be the slowest if we were in the same race.

In regards to breast stroke, I think it would be safest as long as you stay towards the back of the starting pack. If you watch any tri, it is pretty crazy out there in the front/middle, so I'm not sure how well you would fair with all those flying arms and legs. As time permits though, I would learn free style. I was an avid breast stroker and used it in my first tri. No matter how fast you think you are, you probably will get dusted. And I think it's pretty dangerous as I stated above. For me, I was in the back of my age group, but I was so slow, the next age group wave came and overtook me. And trust me, they don't care about swimming over you. I'm lucky I didn't drown. I quickly switched over to free style for the next tri. I think breast stroke is a good backup stroke but not ideal for your primary stroke.
2005-11-27 12:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof

Ya' know, I am going to have to stop not liking the crawl.  Phooey.  I haven't done it since grade school, and when I did it then, I was awful at it and couldn't ever tell where I was going ~ hence the breast stroke.  Plus I can keep my head above water with the breast stroke. 

But efficiency is really important and safety is critical.  Thanks for the safety input!

2005-11-27 12:46 PM
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Master
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof

If you have an idea of what race you are going to do check out their website.  Almost all races have the past years' results posted and then you can compare what you think you will do with who competed in the past.  I'll bet you will be presently surprised.

2005-11-27 1:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof
Actually, in open-water swims, there are times when I find the breast stroke safer than the crawl--let's me see where I am going, especially when things are "tight" (lots of arms and legs). I usually breast stroke to a "clear" spot and then use the crawl until, or if, I need to get my bearings. The previous posts are correct, in that it's bedlam in the beginning of any swim. Things will usually get better halfway through as people stop being so bunched together.


2005-11-27 2:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof

You'll do great and I very much doubt you'll be coming in as the trailer.

You are faster than me at running and maybe a little slower than me at swimming...but you've just started training. I've come in last at an Oly distance so when I compare speeds I just want to encourage you that unless something strange comes up, you'll be racing with others not being the trailer or BOP.

I agree a great way to see how others do it check out the past couple of years and look at times...it gives you a ballpark as to how fast the course is and what average speeds are. You may be able to search the race reports and find out other BTers that did the race so you read about the race and learn about special things about the race. But reality is you are competing against yourself and that is what counts. Of all the races I did last year, the one I am the most proud of is the one I came in last..it was very very hard for me but I pushed through and finished.

You can do the distance already and you just started training...which is awesome! Check out the training plans here on BT and pick one that fits your needs.

2005-11-27 7:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof
PGoldberger, I went to the site and found the winners right away ~ daunting.

But you're right, there are a lot of people right around where I THINK I am now and/or would be this summer.

The race I want to do isn't as long as an Oly but it's in the mountains, so I don't know how to train for it other than with extra distance.

Kpar, swimming is the biggest concern for me ~ the big bunch of people plus the open water ~ but it's something I won't know how well I'm prepared to do until I actually do it. Ha! That's like so much of life, eh? I will attempt crawling tomorrow. We'll see...

KathyG, THANKS! That was a very inspirational post. I'm looking at the Olympic 20 week one. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to end up doing my own thing just because I've got kids just as you do, and I pretty much go when I get the chance. Sometimes that means I overdo it and other times I underdo it and just hope it all works out.

2005-11-27 7:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof
Winning isn't all it's cracked up to be.  At least thats what I tell myself - I'll never know.  Giving it my best shot sure puts a big smile on my face though.
2005-11-28 5:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof
The winners' times were the ones that showed up first when I clicked on the link. I have no designs on winning. :-) You do the half Iron Man, right PGoldberger? Did I see that you had done an Iron Man too? That just knocks my socks off. I can't comprehend that kind of distance.

I just did my second swim and "accidentally" shaved 6 minutes off my time. ha! I can't take credit for that though. There was a flock of Marines coming into the pool, and I did NOT want to be in their way.

I learned this a.m. as I was being passed lap after lap by people doing the crawl at a much more leisurely pace than I was doing the breastroke, that the breastroke is probably the most INefficent stroke their is.

That was a LOT of work. The folks next to me were not working half as hard and were going twice as fast.

I tried crawling a couple of times, but it was hard to catch my breath. One of the reasons I like the breastroke is because you can keep your head out of the water and breathe.

Huh... well, I'm not swimming for a couple of days, and since efficiency is a big concern, I am going to have to add a few laps of the crawl every time I swim. The breathing and getting those lungs into better shape will probably come easily with time, eh?

2005-11-28 9:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof
Keep working at it!

I haven't run 5 miles in any time (but my main training run is 3.75 miles).

I never swam competitively, so I'm not "fast" but I like to swim for fitness. 2 weeks before my first tri (last summer), I couldn't finish 400 yards without stopping.

Front crawl or breastroke can be done with your head out of the water, but they are (both) very inefficient that way. Work on your breathing using breastroke, putting your head in the water during the glide and lifting it near the end of the pull. As you get comfortable breathing out underwater, and lifting your head just to breath in, you'll master the switch to front crawl. Start by mixing one lap of crawl every 3-5 laps.

Hire a swim coach or take some lessons (soon). It's way easier to learn the right way than to overcome bad habits from doing things on your own.

Sign up for the race. I don't think you'll be last! Work out some goals for yourself, and compete against your vision (goal) rather than anyone else who happens to show up that day.


2005-11-28 10:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof

You are doing great!  Keep up your training and you'll be set to go.  And even a two a day...good for you. That's something I can't really make myself do, but will need to at some point.

One thing to consider with breaststroke is that it really relies on your legs to propel you, while your arms do most of the work in crawl or freestyle. You are going to need those legs for the bike and run segements, so I would definitely incorporate more freestyle into your workouts, using breast stroke or back stroke for catching your breath.  Also, find someone at your local pool to help you with stroke.  You may only need 3-5 classes to help your form become efficient.  I am always amazed by how much someone improves with a single session of instruction.

Keep up the good work! 

2005-11-28 4:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof
You know, that leg thing is important. I didn't know that about the breastroke being propelled by the legs.

McFuzz, I think that's what I'm just going to do. This is only the second time I have swum (Is that right? Swim, swam, swum... can't remember.) in a long time and I think I need to chill and be mellow with myself ~ keep up the same distance 2 or 3 times a week and add a crawl lap as you suggested every 3-5 laps.

There are lifeguards and plenty of good swimmers around me, so maybe I can get some one to watch me crawl and tell me some quick stuff that might be FREE. Ha! Eventually I'll cough up some money but not today.
2005-11-29 7:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof
When I did my only tri many years ago (Columbia Traithlon in '92) I had not swam in three months, so lost my ability to freestyle well. I started with that stroke but after about 200 meters or so I was cooked so I changed to breast stroke for the rest of the swim since it was my strongest stroke.

I came out of the water dead last in my AG and actually two waves back from where I started ...... ugh!! Luckily I made a lot of it back up on the bike and run and was able to finish pretty well in the AG, but the lack of freestyle killed me overall. If not for that 40 - 45 minute swim I could have been in the 2:15 - 2:20 range instead of in the 2:30 range (can't remember my time exactly but I know it was in the 2:30's).

Take heart! Next week will be the first time I'll have been in the water actually training since that race 13 years ago! I'll be another newb. that doesn't belong in the fast lane. But with 6 months to my event, I'll hopefully get my swim back to a respectable level. So you are not alone! (And probably much farther along than me ).
2005-11-29 10:20 AM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof
I needed to hear that (read it I guess heee...). I'm just going to have to suck it up and start freestyling.

Thanks.
2005-11-29 12:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Speed ... A Lack Thereof
Just to let you know, some races (most? all?) have a time when they cut off the course. As far as I know, it's usually around 1pm for sprints and Olys, so given they will often start at 8am, you will be absolutely okay. I haven't heard of a cut off between transitions, so you should be okay. Good luck!!!


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