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2004-04-27 7:17 PM

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Subject: swim tip
when i coached new swimmers, the first thing i checked for was, "blowing bubbles underwater." if you find yourself constantly tired during your swimming, or having difficulty breathing, chances are you're not blowing underneath the water and regulating your breathing. you need to properly exhale (bubbles), in order to inhale.

just a tip for those having difficulty swimming.


2004-04-27 7:37 PM
in reply to: #21631

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Subject: RE: swim tip
I have a question about your tip: I keep hearing people talk about the proper way to breathe while swimming, making sure to breathe out and everyhing, but is it also possible to breathe out too much. In other words, should I try to maintain as normal a breathe as possible, both in and out, or breathe harder than normal? I've tried both ways, but at this point, I need to do a lot more than just breath correctly to progress in swimming...lol
2004-04-27 8:02 PM
in reply to: #21632

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Elite Veteran
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Subject: RE: swim tip
that's a very good question. i would advise that your breathing (in terms of expending of energy) should be relative to your level of excertion. don't "focus" on your breathing, and allow it to be regulated naturally. once you become proficient, you'll notice that swimming will take on a meditative state as you become "mindless" while doing laps because your breathing will be so natural, calm, and regulated-just like meditation.

also, the "catch up" stroke is a great way to focus on regulating your stroke. if you have ever watched "natural" swimmers do laps, you'll notice that they do not begin another stroke, until the opposite arm has reached the same plane level as the other arm; hence, "catching-up with the other arm." this will help you with your stroke and keep focus on the proper technique. disregard speed, that will come with the technique.
2004-04-27 9:05 PM
in reply to: #21631

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Expert
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Subject: RE: swim tip
I'll try that breathing tip on Thursday (next swim day). I know that I breathe out underwater pretty well (as the occasional bobble hanging around my goggles can attest to!) I understand the dynamics of breathing, but it sure seems like my HR is way too high by the time I hit 50 yards.
2004-04-28 11:06 AM
in reply to: #21645

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Subject: RE: swim tip
Mine is too! I seem to be breathing REALLy hard after 50 meters. I think I'm going to try that "catch-up arm" technique, though. Maybe that will help. I'm open to just about any and all suggestions!
2004-04-28 11:18 AM
in reply to: #21720

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Elite Veteran
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Subject: RE: swim tip
often times, the swimmer rushes the stroke, however, swimming at times can be opposite of running or cycling in which faster cadence equals more speed; since swimming is very fundamentaly technical, slower but more efficient strokes can translate into faster, more efficient, and less tiresome swimming. "catch-up" requires the swimmer to "slow down" his/her stroke and focus on the pull through without rushing.


2004-04-28 1:23 PM
in reply to: #21645

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Subject: RE: swim tip
I found that although I was blowing out underwater, when I turned to breathe, I was trying to inhale as much as possible. I could hear myself sucking in air. I think that was my problem, I was making myself breathe WAY more than what I needed to and at the end of one length I was out of breath
2004-04-28 1:36 PM
in reply to: #21631

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Master
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Subject: RE: swim tip
I have never had any problem "blowing out" in the water. My breathing problems stems from the fact that I can't seem to get in enough air in that short time when my face is out of the water. (Unlike when running where you can take a nice deep breath any time you want) Also, I seem to get water up my nose everytime I turn to breath. Not good times.

Bill
2004-04-28 2:25 PM
in reply to: #21755

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Subject: RE: swim tip
MUL98 - 2004-04-28 12:36 PM

I have never had any problem "blowing out" in the water. My breathing problems stems from the fact that I can't seem to get in enough air in that short time when my face is out of the water. (Unlike when running where you can take a nice deep breath any time you want) Also, I seem to get water up my nose everytime I turn to breath. Not good times.

Bill


Try to learn to exhale all the air out both your nose and mouth. That way when your head is turning up for air you are exhaling out the nose also and no water can get in. Al.
2004-04-28 3:56 PM
in reply to: #21768

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Subject: RE: swim tip
tractoral - 2004-04-28 2:25 PM

Try to learn to exhale all the air out both your nose and mouth. That way when your head is turning up for air you are exhaling out the nose also and no water can get in. Al.


Wouldn't that mean exhaling while lifting your face out of the water? Won't that cut short the amount of time to inhale? - Bill
2004-04-28 4:27 PM
in reply to: #21631

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South Orange, NJ
Subject: RE: swim tip
I read somewhere (read: I have no idea if this is right) that a large breath in will help to maintain a lower heart rate. Any thoughts?



2004-04-28 5:24 PM
in reply to: #21749

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New Orleans, LA / Lafayette, LA
Subject: RE: swim tip
marty12550 - 2004-04-28 12:23 PM

I found that although I was blowing out underwater, when I turned to breathe, I was trying to inhale as much as possible. I could hear myself sucking in air. I think that was my problem, I was making myself breathe WAY more than what I needed to and at the end of one length I was out of breath


Hmm, that's in interesting thought. I also tend to try to breath in as much as possible when the time comes. By the end, however, I'm gasping. Soo annoying. I despise it. I think tomorrow when I swim I will try to concentrate on keeping my breathing more regular. After, I'll be sure to report back
2004-04-28 8:39 PM
in reply to: #21631

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Subject: RE: swim tip
Thanks for the info.
2004-04-28 9:10 PM
in reply to: #21631

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Subject: RE: swim tip
for those having difficult in taking in a comfortable amount of air when breathing, please keep in mind, when done properly, your body should be rotated on its side as your gliding arm and hand streamline in front of you..if your body and chest remain "flat," this will force your neck and head into a very akward position when taking a breath.
2004-04-29 8:19 AM
in reply to: #21795

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Subject: RE: swim tip
MUL98 - 2004-04-28 2:56 PM

tractoral - 2004-04-28 2:25 PM

Try to learn to exhale all the air out both your nose and mouth. That way when your head is turning up for air you are exhaling out the nose also and no water can get in. Al.


Wouldn't that mean exhaling while lifting your face out of the water? Won't that cut short the amount of time to inhale? - Bill


Once you have put in a lot of time in the pool (which I have quiet a bit) If you breath the way I mentioned it is purely timing. Once I am warmed up and in the zone it is just like regular breathing and I exhale completely and smoothly with the very last of my breath coming out when my face comes out of the water. Probably takes some time in the pool to perfect before it will come natural without even thinking about it.

AL.
2004-05-24 8:03 PM
in reply to: #21645

New user
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Laguna Niguel, CA
Subject: RE: swim tip
I would like to hear an update from joeinco and others in this thread about breathing technique. I've been struggling with many of the same issues, getting out of breath quickly, fast heart rate, taking in too much air, or not enough. I can't seem to find a natural breathing pattern while swimming. As soon as I get 15 meters into my crawl I start struggling with breathing or gasping is more like it. A particular issue for me is taking a quick inhale and long slow exhale. I instictivly want to take a long inhale and long exhale to slow my breathing, but a long inhale obviously is not practicle. I wanted to know if the catch up drills helped or if just spending more time in the water solved your issues?

thanks,
Erich

Edited by elist 2004-05-24 8:06 PM


2004-05-24 8:59 PM
in reply to: #21631

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Subject: RE: swim tip
Ask, and ye shall receive! I've been extremely fortunate in the past two weeks with my swimming: I've shared lanes with 1 instructor, 1 triathlete, 2 swim team members, and 1 TI student. Here's what I've learned:

1) Glide! Don't fight through the water, glide through it. If I keep my head so that the water is just above my foreheard (I'm looking down and very slightly forward this way), when I turn to breathe I don't lift my head very much. My kick is short, and strong. By short, I mean that my feet don't travel much past the line that my body is forming through the water. If I kick too much, I create more turbulence that I have to power through. Right now, I'm about 16 stroke per 25 yards with my glide.

2) Don't turn your head to breathe, turn your torso. This is a tough one for me, as I want to stay straight. But if I turn my torso, I can get a decent breathe, and I don't feel like I have to force my inhale. My exhalation is good, through the nose and mouth. I tend to finish my exhale as I'm turning from the water, so I don't have to worry about water in my nose, and I haven't gotten a lungful of water in some time now.

3) Unlike biking or running, technique is much more important to speed than muscular power. I can speed down 25 yards, but I'll be stopping at the end, and it'll take me about 18-20 seconds. I can 'glide' through the water for 25 yards in about 25 seconds, touch the wall and turn.

4) I used to swim 'uphill' (tmwelshy's comment about that water looks uphill - yeah, I proved it's true!) I grabbed a pull buoy to force me to keep my legs up. I didn't use the thing at all today, and I didn't have a problem staying flat in the water. Someone made a post recently about feeling the cool air on your cheeks (the rear ones!) while swimming. When I turn, I try to make sure that my hip is at the top of the water. These two mental images help me stay flat, rather than on an incline. The pull buoy helped me to keep my kick within my 'wake', so that I didn't overkick. (Side note: since your quads are more muscular than your arms/lats, they'll use much more glycogen and oxygen, which will lead to the higher HR. Smaller kicks, trust me, will help a lot!) By trying to keep the pull buoy in place, I was forced to manage my kick-technique.

5) Arm strokes should be long and deliberate. My fingers touch bottom in the shallow end. My hands and forearms make a straight line to my elbows, and enter the water slightly ahead of my ears. I immediately reach as far forward as I can, so that my hand is directly in front of my eye (right/right, and left/left). I make sure that my hands don't cross my center line. Then I pull my arm back, as if it's a boat oar (another of my mental images). I can generate a lot of power this way. On finishing my arm stroke, I try to feel my thumb touch my thigh as far back as I can reach. Elbow up as high as I can comfortably lift it, and repeat.

I still breathe on every right-stroke (I'll be working on this very soon). A lot of my glide is on my left side because of this. As my left arm reaches it's farthest point in front of me, I roll onto my left side (hip to the top of the water!), and take a rather slow breath. A brief pause as I'm rolling back and bringing my right hand forward, and then I start my exhale.

I have pushed myself to do 100 yard drills, and I CAN DO IT! YAY! Today, I was concentrating more on form, and only did a couple of 100s, mainly 50s. I've been doing 50s with 30-45 seconds rest between, and 25s on 20 seconds rest. This has helped me manage my HR; if I feel like I'm rushing, I take a longer glide as I take a breath, and this helps a lot too.

I'm still very much learning this whole swimming thing, but these things have helped me a lot. I'll take the lane closest to the wall, if available, as the splashback helps force me to concentrate. I like using the pull buoy (again, I know you're not supposed to kick at all when using one, but just to minimize my leg-flailing, it's worked wonders!) I incorporate a little extra back-work (pulldowns, rows, etc.) to help build those pulling muscles, and I can feel it on my arm stroke already. I swim 3 days a week, I constantly watch others that are swimming well, and I listen to advice from just about everybody (if it sounds like a bunch of hooie, I just smile polite and say 'I will have to try that!' Most of the advice I've gotten has been beneficial though.)

I can bike for as long as my water holds out, and I can run 10k and feel like I could do another lap, but swimming has been my tough part. I'm getting there (I'm over 13 miles in the pool so far!), I'm in no hurry, and I have to thank so many people on this site for their advice. I can't even think of all of them right now, but the 'cool air on the b--- cheeks' was a classic! Most importantly, just keep swimming!
2004-05-24 9:50 PM
in reply to: #21631

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Regular
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Subject: RE: swim tip
Another question about your tip: I read somewhere that you should breathe every stroke (the same side all the time) during a race to make sure you are getting lots of oxygen and are ready for the bike. On my laps though I've been concentrating on breathing on alternating sides. Is there a right way?
2004-05-24 10:21 PM
in reply to: #21631

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Expert
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Lafayette, CO
Subject: RE: swim tip
I think whatever works best for you is the way to go. I breathe with every right arm-stroke. I'd like to alternate-breathe, but I'm still working on form. I read somewhere that women should breathe every other stroke, and men every stroke. There was no explanation why, and it doesn't quite seem right to me. All I know is, with my previous tips, as long as my breathing is more natural, rather than forced big breaths, I can swim much better and farther.
2004-05-25 12:47 AM
in reply to: #21631

New user
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Riverside California
Subject: RE: swim tip
Joeinco..

I was just reading last night in Triathlon 101 about Total Emmersion swim techniques. It sounds a lot like what you are describing too. Do/Did you have a swim coach? I have always felt comfortable in the water but in "open" water with a hundred other bodies? Thats a little sketchy. Im also working on breath control. As you said, form seems to be what will get the job done. Im going to try what you've suggested and let you know how it goes.

Thanks...
2004-05-25 10:00 AM
in reply to: #21631

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Subject: RE: swim tip
OK, here comes my questions for Joeinco and/or Trilover (or anybody else).

1. What's the best, breath every right (for me right) stroke or every two strokes? I found a bit confortable breathing every two rights, but I feel like Im short of air at 25m. My body feels OK, but I'm short of breathing. Will help me trying every rights stroke?

2. To correct my stroke and breathing which will help me more, the pull buoy, the fins or both of them?


Thanks...

Edited by charlie 2004-05-25 10:02 AM


2004-05-25 11:18 AM
in reply to: #27077


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Subject: RE: swim tip
I personally breathe every stroke, and I am a very fast swimmer. The pull bouy will obviously help your upper body strength, and the fins, your lower body-don't forget to kick from the top of your thighs, and not past your knees. A combination of drills and yards will have you improving.
2004-05-25 11:47 AM
in reply to: #21631

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Subject: RE: swim tip
charlie: I was told that if you can breathe every other stroke, it'll 'force' you to become more efficient, as you'll has less oxygen to work with. I don't know if I'm ready to limit my air just yet! I'm still working on getting my technique refined to the point that I don't have to think about my swimming as much. Head down, stay tall in the water, kick from the thighs, roll the body, etc. is a LOT to try to think about without having to count every other stroke to breathe. I can see the necessity of learning to breathe on both sides, especially when you're in churning open water with scores of other swimmers.

I think the pull buoy has worked well for me, to limit my kicking and improve my arm stroke. Fins are good for bulding the legs, and improving the kick. My kick is fairly efficient so far, so I haven't tried fins. It's also helped me keep my hips up, so that I don't sink when I roll to breathe.

phxlvr: I'm currently unemployed, so I can't afford a swim coach right now. My rec center also does not currently have a Master's swim group, so I've been on my own for the most part (except for the advice from here!) I have talked with several of the lifeguards at my pool, and they've been great for offering advice, as have the people that I've shared lanes with. I don't know too many specific drills, but as my form improves, I can see the results..

2004-05-25 1:27 PM
in reply to: #27115

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Subject: RE: swim tip
I have been able to get myself to swim the 50 yard breathing every other stroke by being more efficient as was described in other posts. My 50 yard time has dropped 8 seconds (100 yard 15 sec) from when I started in March and I feel half as tired at the end by actually slowing down my arm rhythm and using "proper" techniques, if I only could have a coach! I have been focusing in on the follow though portion of my stroke and try my best not to start the next stroke until the thumb is at the thigh. The thumb to thigh has helped me breath better too with the rotation. As I start my turn I am exhaling through my mouth, this helps me clear the water before I inhale. I also try not to inhale with chest expansion but with natural diaphragmatic breathing. This helps the air inhaled get to the deep lung and you will transfer much more O2 this way. When I get tired I'm still fighting to not inhale with the lazy chest expansion. I will also go to breathing every stroke to catch up and then return to every other for as long as I can.

I learned all my drills from reading here and there!

Don
2004-05-25 4:29 PM
in reply to: #21631

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Subject: RE: swim tip
Here's an article from Total Immersion on breathing. http://www.totalimmersion.net/2004%20articles/march/breathless.html

The main idea, as I see it are: 1) Holding your breath during exercise is detrimental. Therefore, begin breathing out as soon as your face goes underwater. 2) Buildup of CO2 is what makes you feel out of breath, so breathing every other stroke is best. This means to breathe each time your left hand is out of the water.

I went from struggling to make it 100 meters to swimming 800 meters easily in about three weeks, and one of the keys was that I realized that I was holding my breath for a moment when I put my face under water. I changed, and tried to breathe out in a relaxed manner the entire time my face was under, and it helped greatly.
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