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2006-01-11 9:36 AM

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Expert
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Subject: Muslim Swim Attire

I thought this was of interest.  I haven't seen anyone swimming in long garb at my pool.  Has anyone else? 

 

CAIR-MI: SWIMWEAR POLICY TO ACCOMMODATE RELIGIOUS REQUIREMENTS - TOP
Washtenaw County to become 1st Michigan county to implement such a policy
ART AISNER, Ann Arbor News, 1/10/06
http://www.mlive.com/news/aanews/index.ssf?/base/news-16/113690763014580.xml&coll=2

On one of the last days of school last June, Ann Arbor resident Jumanah Saadeh, then 13, changed into long gym pants, a head covering and a long-sleeved collared shirt and joined her classmates from Ann Arbor Open School at the Rolling Hills Water Park in Ypsilanti.

The outfit was in accordance with Islam's modesty requirements, but violated health and safety regulations at the pool and lifeguards ordered her out of the water.

"This was a terribly humiliating incident for her and she felt like she was forced to choose between her religious beliefs and her classmates," said Michael Steinberg, legal director with the American Civil Liberties Union of Michigan.

After six months of planning, the county's Park and Recreation Commission is expected tonight to unanimously pass the first swimwear policy to accommodate individuals who cannot wear traditional swimsuits for religious reasons.

Washtenaw County is slated to become the first county in Michigan and possibly the nation to implement such a policy. . .

Executive director of the Council of American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) Dawud Walid said his organization has received only a few similar complaints over the years but noted that may be because many Muslims avoid public pools strictly because of the clothing issue.

In Islam, females approaching puberty must have their head covered, and body covered from their neck to their ankles at all times in public, said Walid. The clothing should not be form fitting.

Males may be shirtless but must be covered from above the belly button to the knee cap in non-form fitting attire, he said.

Similar requirements are customary for Orthodox Jews and the Amish, county officials said.

The proposed policy, which will apply to all county aquatic facilities, is intended to provide guidelines that protect public health and safety while accommodating the diverse community. Street clothes and shoes remain prohibited in the water, but unlike the state regulations, the proposal defines street clothes.

The parks will accommodate those who cannot wear traditional bathing suits for religious reasons by permitting appropriate clothing with the following conditions:

Clothing must allow free movement of arms and legs and be free from hardware such as belts, buckles and rivets.

The clothing material must be lightweight as to not inhibit a patron's movement or weigh them down in the pool. Fabric such as nylon, polyester, Lycra or thin cotton are acceptable.

Clothing also must not be so loose that it could cause entanglement, entrapment or strangulation in pool equipment.



2006-01-11 3:57 PM
in reply to: #321384

Member
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Wylie, Tx
Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
I have.
2006-01-11 4:59 PM
in reply to: #321384

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Champion
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Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
there is a woman who swims at my pool who appears middle eastern/arab and whose bathing suit looks like a tri suit but with short sleeves. I just assumed she was Muslim, and that her suit was part of her modesty...  the man that swims with her just swims in trunks, though, so maybe she is just fashionable(?)
2006-01-11 9:32 PM
in reply to: #321384

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
Sounds like a pretty interesting challenge.

Lightweight, doesn't absorb water, can't be form fitting, but can't cling when wet...

The market could be potentially large...
2006-01-11 9:46 PM
in reply to: #321384

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Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire

I wonder if there are any safety concerns in addition to health concerns related to having people with long pants and a long sleeved shirt on in a pool?  Have you tried swimming fully clothed? 

On a related note, at the pool I swim at there are a lot of orthodox Jewish people and there are separate hours for men and women since they are not supposed to swim together.

2006-01-12 8:25 AM
in reply to: #322077

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Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
kimta - 2006-01-11 9:46 PM

I wonder if there are any safety concerns in addition to health concerns related to having people with long pants and a long sleeved shirt on in a pool?  Have you tried swimming fully clothed? 

Oh yea! Survival swimming is a big element of the aquatics program in Boy Scouts. Really a pretty handy skill to have practiced to gain confidence in the water.



2006-01-12 8:27 AM
in reply to: #321384

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Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
Yep, we have this often in Pittsburgh (growing muslim community and a very very large orthodox jewish community). When I worked at the city pools, most would just come to us and ask before going in. Some of the parents at the Y I work at do the same when theyre in infant swim classes.

The reasons for prohibiting the general populous from swimming in their trackies are many and various. Number 1 it can be very dangerous for poor swimmers and children because shirts tend to stretch in water and get very heavy and prohibit arm movement. This was my objection to the "how to deal with an overweight child" article. The author, with good intentions, mentioned going to a pool that would allow an overweight child to wear shorts and a tshirt instead of "an embarassing swimsuit". Truth is, you'll be hardpressed to find a pool or lifeguard staff that will allow it, especially on a child.
2006-01-12 8:30 AM
in reply to: #321384

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Elite
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In my bunk with new shoes and purple sweats.
Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
Muslim swimwear. Well no sh$#. What's next? Hindu menu at Burger King.
2006-01-12 8:35 AM
in reply to: #321384

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Champion
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Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
careful gullah....
2006-01-12 8:37 AM
in reply to: #322255

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Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire

possum - 2006-01-12 9:35 AM careful gullah....

Sorry. Just feeling a little antsy today. Didn't mean to offend.

2006-01-12 8:58 AM
in reply to: #321384

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire

Some of you may have noticed that a post in this thread and a number of replies that quoted it have been deleted. For the record, the replies were not supportive of the original post, quite the contrary.

BT is not the place for hate speech. It will not be tolerated here. The forum guidelines and terms of service that everyone agrees to upon joining should make this pretty clear.

Gullahcracker posting before he's had his morning coffee is borderline.



2006-01-12 9:04 AM
in reply to: #321384

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Rochester, MN
Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
It's pretty hard to imagine some sort of loose, non-form fitting, non-stretching material that wouldn't be similar to swimming wrapped in a parachute.  When I was in middle school we were required to tread water in the deep end fully clothed in long sleeves and pants for 15 minutes...people tried a whole range of outfits...didn't seem to matter, it was still a bit of a struggle.  

While they want to make accomidations for different religions, I imagine that they also have to consider the safety factor.  The policy also seems kinda hard to enforce because it's so general.  Anyone know what they do at the pools and waterparks in muslim countries?
2006-01-12 9:08 AM
in reply to: #322289

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
marmadaddy - 2006-01-12 8:58 AM

Some of you may have noticed that a post in this thread and a number of replies that quoted it have been deleted. For the record, the replies were not supportive of the original post, quite the contrary.

I'm glad I never saw those posts.

My way is not the Muslim way or the Christian way or the Hindu way... but I respect that there are other ways and there is PLENTY of room in this country for many ways.

2006-01-12 9:20 AM
in reply to: #321384

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Elite
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In my bunk with new shoes and purple sweats.
Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire

OK I just drug myself outback and flogged myself for being insensitive.

btw I had my coffee it's just that my diet pills, pain pills, and muscle relaxers are conflicting with my steroids.

2006-01-12 9:32 AM
in reply to: #322295

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Mount Vernon, Iowa
Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
dingorock - 2006-01-12 8:04 AM

It's pretty hard to imagine some sort of loose, non-form fitting, non-stretching material that wouldn't be similar to swimming wrapped in a parachute. When I was in middle school we were required to tread water in the deep end fully clothed in long sleeves and pants for 15 minutes...people tried a whole range of outfits...didn't seem to matter, it was still a bit of a struggle.

While they want to make accomidations for different religions, I imagine that they also have to consider the safety factor. The policy also seems kinda hard to enforce because it's so general. Anyone know what they do at the pools and waterparks in muslim countries?


I'd be interested to know this. I'll have to ask my SIL's boyfriend from Jordan. As part of lifeguard training we had to do a bunch of exercises fully clothed in the diving tank, and as strong a swimmer as I am, I have never felt so close to panic. Also, the fact of different clothing required by religious tenets doesn't bother me, but the gender differences do.
2006-01-12 10:23 AM
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Houston, TX
Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
For water polo pre-season practice in college, we always swam for a week with long-sleeved tshirts over our suits.  It was incredibly hard to keep form and was brutally tiring.  We got pretty good by the end of the week--and felt soooo fast once we took the tshirts off!  "Drag" swimming is pretty common for competitive training, but it would be very hard for a novice, I can imagine.  We also used to swim with socks/leggings on--somehow the lifeguards had no problem with this.


2006-01-12 10:37 AM
in reply to: #322407

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Expert
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Mount Vernon, Iowa
Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
All true. I was with them until they said "not form fitting"! Yowza, the difficulty rating shoots up right there. I guess the full body microfiber suits are right out. And swim caps. I'd like to try this just to see what my swim club would say.
2006-01-12 10:41 AM
in reply to: #321384

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
I wonder what it would be like to swim in my "Solumbra" fabric stuff. (Yeah I'm one of those people swathed up like a beekeeper when I garden, calmly reading in a long-sleeved hooded shirt at the beach.) It's very lightweight, doesn't absorb water, is relatively fitted but not tight. I can run in the pants, mobility is not bad, at least dry. Cotton would be the worst, agreed!

And as an ASIDE here: One of the things I love about this country is our freedom to worship or not as we please, and to speak our opinions as we please. Let's raise a glass to the First Amendment -- whether the glass is filled with champagne or Martinellis apple juice or Maneshevits wine! So I don't feel too schizophrenic applauding the intent of the regulation and giggling at Gulla's earlier post all at the same time. (Hindu menu. Heh heh.) People need to calm down a little. (And I do have LOTS of pharmaceuticals to help you out with that if needed.)

2006-01-12 10:55 AM
in reply to: #321384

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Regular
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Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
Here's a link to a place that sells them.

http://www.ahiida.com
2006-01-12 11:00 AM
in reply to: #322456

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Expert
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Mount Vernon, Iowa
Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
vicvroom - 2006-01-12 9:55 AM

Here's a link to a place that sells them.

http://www.ahiida.com


Can you only get them in Australia??
2006-01-13 8:52 AM
in reply to: #322434


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Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
CitySky - 2006-01-12 10:41 AM
I wonder what it would be like to swim in my "Solumbra" fabric stuff.

(Hindu menu. Heh heh.)

The solumbra would not be heavy, really, since it doesn't absorb water, but the drag would be amazing if you tried to actually swim, vs just standing in the water. The "not form fitting" requirement is the killer, like someone said.

And ya, tri people have tough bodies but sometimes very sensitive egos. Celebrating diversity means celebrating it, not ignoring it.


2006-01-13 9:14 AM
in reply to: #321384

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire

What about a wetsuit, or one of those new speed suits for competetive swimming?  Covers arms and legs, you could even get a hood.

*edit*

Nevermind, I didn't see the non form-fitting part at first. 



Edited by dibujob 2006-01-13 9:15 AM
2006-01-13 10:07 AM
in reply to: #321384

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Expert
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Mount Vernon, Iowa
Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
I also wonder if there might be some distinction made between "frolicking at the beach or waterpark wear" and serious swimwear. No one is swimming laps with you because they want to check out your booty in a speedo. Are they?
2006-01-13 10:10 AM
in reply to: #321384

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
Yeah, that makes me wonder:  What do muslim countries do in the olympics with women divers and swimmers?  Do they not participate?  I can't say I've ever noticed if Saudi Arabia has a women's waterpolo team!
2006-01-13 10:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Muslim Swim Attire
Check this out:

Pakistani Teen Swimmer Blazes Path for Muslim Women -- August 11, 2004

By Craig Lord

ATHENS, August 11. WHEN Rubab Raza, a 13-year-old from Punjab, takes the plunge in the heats of the 50 meters freestyle here on Friday morning next week, she will help to free Islamic women from sporting purdah by becoming the first female swimmer from Pakistan to race in the pool at an Olympic Games, 92 years after ladies were allowed into the water.

Raza, the daughter of Syed Sibtain Raza, a retired army major, and Lubna Raza, an army doctor, will make her debut in a sharkskin, full-length
racing bodysuit that has made it possible for Islamic women to comply with
strict religious laws that forbid skimpy swimwear and dictate modesty for
women.

In a country where not even the bodysuit appeases hardliners who
say that competitive swimming is not for women, Raza's age also helps.

"There is no obstacle in Pakistan to swimming for a girl of 13. But after that, it is another world," Raza's mother said in an interview with the BBC World Service.

While some men interviewed in Lahore say that Raza is brilliant, others state that her sport acts against the faith of Islam.

To avoid judgment, the youngster, who started swimming at the age of 7 and trains twice a day at the Gymkhana club in Lahore, is accompanied by other women when she goes swimming.

"Whenever I go out of home or train at the swimming pool, some family members, or at least my grandmother, remain with me. There are some other girls who swim," Raza said. "People laugh when they hear that we swim.
With boys it's OK, but with girls they think it's strange."

Selection for the Olympic Games, via one of the wild-card
entries granted by the International Olympic Committee to help to further
world understanding, was "a great honor" for the schoolgirl.

Veena Masud, manager of the swimming team, and a member of the Pakistan Olympic Association, said: "The important thing is that Pakistan has come out of sporting purdah, and done so within the Islamic culture." Masud petitioned the Pakistan Government to allow women to swim in international competitions so long as they obeyed Islamic customs.

The first woman to represent Pakistan in an Olympic event was Shabana Akhtar, who ran the 100 meters and 200 meters at Atlanta in 1996. In
Athens, Raza is one of only two women in the Pakistan squad, along with
Sumera Zahoor, who will compete in the 200 meter run. Mumtaz Ahmed is the only other swimmer.
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