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2011-12-04 4:51 PM

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Subject: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer

How do you track mileage on an indoor bike trainer?

I have a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine.

I used it last night for the first time. I got off and thought "I wonder how many miles that was"

I wondering if I need something like this Kinetic Wireless Power Computer

Or are there better bike computer and DVD sets to use...like TrainerRoad

Thanks



2011-12-04 5:55 PM
in reply to: #3925687

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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer

As long as you have a rear-wheel sensor, you can use any standard bike computer. 

(Trainer miles and outdoor miles aren't the same thing, of course, but I find it a useful rough measure in any case. And since I rarely ride outdoor miles, it doesn't much matter.)

2011-12-04 6:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer
If you have a speed/distance sensor for your GPS, it will come with an attachment for your rear wheel that measures speed and distance in the absense of GPS signals. If you didn't get one with the unit when you bought it, they are available online or from your LBS.It was the move to indoor cycling on my KK that caused me to by the sensor package.Enjoy indoor "riding." Find music or TV that works for you because it can be mind-numbing.
2011-12-04 6:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer

I don't usually think of speed and distance on my indoor trainer.  I usually think of power output and time.

 

If I have to record distance and speed I usually record it as how fast I would probably have been going with the exertion I was putting out.

2011-12-04 6:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer

They don't really correspond to outdoor miles. Learn to use time and effort for the trainer. The power curve of a trainer in relation to speed does not really change. Not like outside where there are hills, various wind conditions, and various gear choices and rider positions that will have a noticeable effect.

You can still use speed and distance to track progress, but only on that trainer. This is done by comparing the trainer rides to one another, and only the trainer rides.  Do you have a sensor on the rear wheel for this? All tracking devices should have one come with it, or one available to purchase.

I'm actually one of the very few who's miles ridden on my trainer will actually correspond to my outdoor rides. At least for local rides on the one bike. If I use the full race setup and stay in aeroposition all the time, it doesn't quite hold. If I switch to a mountain bike, it's way off. If I drive up to Wisconsin for a hilly ride, the correlation will be off again.



Edited by brigby1 2011-12-04 6:10 PM
2011-12-04 6:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer

I find that the speed I ride on a trainer (and hence the distance covered) is so completely different than that of a real road ride, I do not bother keeping track of "actual" distance, even though it is recorded by my computer.

Instead I give all trainer rides an arbitrary modest "speed" and keep track of a fake distance that way.

I only bother since I like an approximate idea of how far I ride each year. 

 

..........now if I could just get out of the habit of having these pesky knee surgeries every year, perhaps I could rack up some decent mileage.



2011-12-04 6:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer

Well, since the question has been asked, I'll take it a step further. And yes, I've posted about this before, and got great input but I'm still confused.

I'll extend the question in the OP this way: given that indoor miles and outdoor don't compare, and power is better, and all that....

WHAT IF: one is following a training plan based on mileage (complete, not compete)? Plan X says "Y miles" - this is to be real outdoor miles. But you're on the trainer for the bulk of the winter. Now what? How best to translate?

I am not sure that's the same question the OP has, but I always see the same responses to this question, so this is a more pointed issue for me, not sure about others. Hope that's not a thread hijack.

2011-12-04 6:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer

Not a thread hi-jack at all. That is also one of my questions.

To answer at least one point. I don't have a sensor on my rear wheel. I have a cheap speed sensor on the front tire and use my 310XT for all my training data. 

Continue the great thread! :-)

2011-12-04 6:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer
I usually just take the average speed of my outdoor rides for the previous month and use that as a proxy for actual distance. 
2011-12-04 6:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer

McFuzz - 2011-12-04 7:57 PM I usually just take the average speed of my outdoor rides for the previous month and use that as a proxy for actual distance. 

 

Bingo.

This is sort of what I do as well.

2011-12-04 7:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer
It is very difficult to duplicate road miles and mph on a trainer because of all the different variables (wind, weather, hills, etc.)  Not to mention the resistence on the back wheel.  I like to just train by time and heart rate on the trainer.  the quality miles will come out on the road, just keep your legs and fitness on the trainer.


2011-12-04 7:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer
TheClaaaw - 2011-12-04 7:35 PM

WHAT IF: one is following a training plan based on mileage (complete, not compete)? Plan X says "Y miles" - this is to be real outdoor miles. But you're on the trainer for the bulk of the winter. Now what? How best to translate?


What is your "normal" average speed for about the past 5-10 rides? How long would it take you to do "Y miles" with that speed? There, you have an answer for how long your trainer workout should be.

2011-12-04 7:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer
Get a Garmin device, turn the GPS off and use the little magnet thinger that approximates distance based on size of wheel and # of revolutions. Take speed and distance numbers on the bike trainer as approximations. For most ppl they're under the true #s.
2011-12-04 7:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer

Have said it nearly a million times here, but just so folks know, if you've got a KK or Cycleops2 Fluid trainer, you can download a graph with the speed to power correlation, so you've essentially got the equivalent of a powermeter. There was a very recent thread where someone contributed the excel spreadsheet, including correlations with someone who used a Quarq powermeter and graphed those as well. 

 

To not take advantage of this if you own one of these trainers is to ignore one of the best training features of your device. I've used it for power-based training on Carmichael programs - it works excellently, with the speed-power numbers correlating pretty much exactly with his prescribed zones/HR.

 

You also don't really 'need' the power correlation as well  - if you're getting faster on the trainer, you will be faster outdoors. I still don't understand why folks ignore the speed numbers. Even if they don't correlate with outdoor numbers, they provide hard, objective, reproducible evidence of your level of ability. Trainer speed goes up, outdoor speed will go up. Trainer distance rode goes up, same with outdoor distance. Without a powermeter, you can't even get this sort of precise data even with a bike computer outdoors.

 

There's also nothing more frustrating than doing interval session after interval session, and not knowing if you're getting any better/faster because you're just measuring the duration of your intervals. That will kill any motivation to work harder quickly. A speedo on the trainer is essential if you plan on doing regular trainer interval sessions with incremental increases in speed.



Edited by agarose2000 2011-12-04 7:32 PM
2011-12-04 7:30 PM
in reply to: #3925793

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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer
TheClaaaw - 2011-12-04 6:35 PM

WHAT IF: one is following a training plan based on mileage (complete, not compete)? Plan X says "Y miles" - this is to be real outdoor miles. But you're on the trainer for the bulk of the winter. Now what? How best to translate?

I am not sure that's the same question the OP has, but I always see the same responses to this question, so this is a more pointed issue for me, not sure about others. Hope that's not a thread hijack.

Average together several of the most recent outdoor rides to get an average speed. Then use that to convert the miles for the workout to a time to ride for.  Should be close enough.

2011-12-04 7:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer
bradaskins - 2011-12-04 6:42 PM

Not a thread hi-jack at all. That is also one of my questions.

To answer at least one point. I don't have a sensor on my rear wheel. I have a cheap speed sensor on the front tire and use my 310XT for all my training data. 

Continue the great thread! :-)

Can this be moved to the rear? Some sensors will say to use the front, but have the range to work off the rear. Some don't quite make it though. Speed can still be a useful tool if you understand how to use it.



2011-12-04 8:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer
I don't know if any of you have tried Trainer Road yet, but it is in beta and I love it!  The OP mentioned it and I thought I would chime in.  If you have a higher quality trainer (I have a KK Road Machine) an Ant+ USB stick and the Garmin speed/cadence sensor Trainer Road will give you a 'poor mans' power meter. They have a ton of workouts or just free ride workouts and the instant feedback is amazing.  I know it utilizes the same data that a KK computer would, or simply using the power curve published by KK...but its great to have the computer feedback and log right there on your laptop!! Just my two cents, but if you are curious check it out while its still in beta (and free)!
2011-12-04 8:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer

blindman10 - 2011-12-04 9:04 PM I don't know if any of you have tried Trainer Road yet, but it is in beta and I love it!  The OP mentioned it and I thought I would chime in.  If you have a higher quality trainer (I have a KK Road Machine) an Ant+ USB stick and the Garmin speed/cadence sensor Trainer Road will give you a 'poor mans' power meter. They have a ton of workouts or just free ride workouts and the instant feedback is amazing.  I know it utilizes the same data that a KK computer would, or simply using the power curve published by KK...but its great to have the computer feedback and log right there on your laptop!! Just my two cents, but if you are curious check it out while its still in beta (and free)!

I am anxiously awaiting the Mac version of Trainer Road.

I have power so would not use the TR estimate, but still think the idea of it is waaaaay cool.

I am trying to turn my coach on to it as well. I think the expectation is that eventually coaches would be able to write their own workouts for this. 

TR has a ton of potential.

2011-12-04 8:23 PM
in reply to: #3925859

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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer
agarose2000 - 2011-12-04 8:28 PM

Have said it nearly a million times here, but just so folks know, if you've got a KK or Cycleops2 Fluid trainer, you can download a graph with the speed to power correlation, so you've essentially got the equivalent of a powermeter. There was a very recent thread where someone contributed the excel spreadsheet, including correlations with someone who used a Quarq powermeter and graphed those as well. 

 

To not take advantage of this if you own one of these trainers is to ignore one of the best training features of your device. I've used it for power-based training on Carmichael programs - it works excellently, with the speed-power numbers correlating pretty much exactly with his prescribed zones/HR.

 

You also don't really 'need' the power correlation as well  - if you're getting faster on the trainer, you will be faster outdoors. I still don't understand why folks ignore the speed numbers. Even if they don't correlate with outdoor numbers, they provide hard, objective, reproducible evidence of your level of ability. Trainer speed goes up, outdoor speed will go up. Trainer distance rode goes up, same with outdoor distance. Without a powermeter, you can't even get this sort of precise data even with a bike computer outdoors.

 

There's also nothing more frustrating than doing interval session after interval session, and not knowing if you're getting any better/faster because you're just measuring the duration of your intervals. That will kill any motivation to work harder quickly. A speedo on the trainer is essential if you plan on doing regular trainer interval sessions with incremental increases in speed.

this thread is going two different directions. I think what the OP was trying to figure out and what half the posters eluded to is that he wants to try and keep track of total miles in the logs and wants to find a way to "translate" trainer miles to actual. That's jut a rough approximation, but not a good use for precise tracking to determine bike progress, but I don't think that's what he's trying to say here.To thAt end agarose, I agree with you on converting the speed on the trainer to power through the KK/CycleOps conversion table in lieu of a power meter to be a much better progress tool. I saw that thread and am using the sheet myself.
2011-12-04 8:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer
bradaskins - 2011-12-04 6:42 PM

Not a thread hi-jack at all. That is also one of my questions.

To answer at least one point. I don't have a sensor on my rear wheel. I have a cheap speed sensor on the front tire and use my 310XT for all my training data. 

Continue the great thread! :-)

I'd seriously look at getting the Garmin Speed/Cadence sensor. 

I think it is about 40 bucks and will hook to your 310 with no problem.  You will get speed AND cadence. The only issue is aligning the thing can be tedious.

I know some think that cadence is a red herring, but just like HR and speed it is one more datapoint to consider.

I train by time if I'm doing a trainer ride, and by distance if I'm outside.  I track both just for end of month/year totals.

2011-12-04 8:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer

The Garmin speed/cadence sensor works well with the 310XT. My trainer miles tend to correlate fairly well with road miles, though I use power on the trainer. I still log time and distance in the logs.

In the end, you can only do what you can with the information you have. Don't obsess too much. Just push hard on the trainer and you'll get better



2011-12-05 11:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer
aquagirl - 2011-12-04 6:14 PM

blindman10 - 2011-12-04 9:04 PM I don't know if any of you have tried Trainer Road yet, but it is in beta and I love it!  The OP mentioned it and I thought I would chime in.  If you have a higher quality trainer (I have a KK Road Machine) an Ant+ USB stick and the Garmin speed/cadence sensor Trainer Road will give you a 'poor mans' power meter. They have a ton of workouts or just free ride workouts and the instant feedback is amazing.  I know it utilizes the same data that a KK computer would, or simply using the power curve published by KK...but its great to have the computer feedback and log right there on your laptop!! Just my two cents, but if you are curious check it out while its still in beta (and free)!

I am anxiously awaiting the Mac version of Trainer Road.

I have power so would not use the TR estimate, but still think the idea of it is waaaaay cool.

I am trying to turn my coach on to it as well. I think the expectation is that eventually coaches would be able to write their own workouts for this. 

TR has a ton of potential.



Mac version has been about for a little over a month! It's waiting for you!!

If your coach is itching to get some standard workouts in there have him post them here: http://support.trainerroad.com/forums/20356951-suggest-a-workout. That's temporary until we get the creating of workout stuff working.

2011-12-05 11:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer
agarose2000 - 2011-12-04 5:28 PM

speedo on the trainer is essential if you plan on doing regular trainer interval sessions with incremental increases in speed.

Is it because of less drag when wearing one?  I've been using Trainer Road for a few weeks and I like it a lot. I do my trainer workouts while watching a movie or catching up with TV shows. When logging my trainer rides I just put the estimated distance from the Garmin along with notes that the ride was a trainer ride, and which program I used from Trainer Road. I used to put in the FTP, but now I put in the NP as well. I measure my stuff by distance rather than time, but I'm not all that hung up over the numbers. 

2011-12-05 12:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer

I just got the Garmin speed/cadence sensor for my 305 and KK. To put it on TR all you need is the ANT+ stick. works pretty good. Easy.

Distance on a trainer will be accurate. Just like setting up any other computer you just measure the tire and you will be pretty close. It's just that without a head wind the trainer will require much less effort. So if your normal outdoor ride you do a moderate pace and hold 20 mph for an hour and go 20 miles.... well at the same effort on the trainer you can do 25+ mph so you will have an inflated number of miles on the trainer. Still nice to track, just not true miles.

2011-12-05 12:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Tracking Miles on Indoor Trainer

Garmin GSC-10 http://www.buy.com/prod/garmin-010-10644-00-speed-cadence-bike-sensor/201998003.html

$36

Download this... it shows just how close the KK Road Machine is to outside rides...

Speed/Power Curve www.kurtkinetic.com/documents/Power_Curves419.pdf 

 

 

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