Critique my swim pls

Coach

9167

Stairway to Seven

Subject: RE: Critique my swim pls

andreasjs - 2012-01-06 10:18 AM

I am nota fish (I am 95% rock, 5% octupus) so would appreciate any feedback on this one. Before you say get a swim coach; I do have one I am just not a natural fish. Have been swimming for 9 months, about 7000-8000 meters per week. Can do 100 meter repeats at 1:50 or so. Assume my technique has a major flaw but not sure what it is. What I think I need to work on is:

1. Kick more from the hips
2. Avoid bending a bit when I breath to the left
3. A better pull (more vertical forearm and high elbow)

Thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be

Will get an underwater camera at some point.

Thanks

You look pretty good...you are capble of much better than 1:50/100 for certain. You look pretty relaxed and comfortable.

What I notice from the head on over the water view is that your stroke starts when your body is flat with a lot of water being pushed out to the side. You are using your arms to propel instead of your body.

While you do have some nice rotation and a good relaxed recovery, your rotation isn't coordinated with the pull well enough which is causing you to use a lot more energy than you need to.

I would suggest leaving the lead arm out in front longer while you are recovering, and beginning your stroke as the following things occur:
a) the recovering arm is about to enter and
b) the body is rotating from one side to the other side.

You'll get far more distance out of each stroke that way, and lose less energy to moving water off to the sides as you stroke.

The other things you mentioned are going on as well, but I don't feel that they are major flaws...I would work on timing your stroke to make use of your body rotation for free energy to move yo uforwards.

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Expert

834

Medina, MN

Subject: RE: Critique my swim pls

Personally, I'd try to switch to a 2-beat kick, work on gliding more out front and making sure you're finishing all the way down. Do a lot of catch-up drill.

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66	Subject: RE: Critique my swim pls What is a 2 beat kick and what am I doing?

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Subject: RE: Critique my swim pls

AdventureBear - 2012-01-06 12:25 PM

You look pretty good...you are capble of much better than 1:50/100 for certain. You look pretty relaxed and comfortable.

I agree, looks good so far. A couple things I noticed about your pull, and others can correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks a bit abbreviated and asymmetrical.

When your hand enters the water you really want to drive that forward. It looks as if your arm enters the water with your elbow bent and immidately begin your pull, try to reach out more before beginning your pull. This might help to rotate your hips more as well.

Also, try to have your hands enter the water at the same point in relation to your body. It looks as though your right hand enters the water in line with the center of your body while your left arm appears to enter in line with your shoulder. You want your hands to be more in line with center.

Coach

9167

Stairway to Seven

Subject: RE: Critique my swim pls

Think about where you want your energy to go...straight down the lane or across the lane? Entering hands in the center when the shoulders are several inches wider creates a vector tha tgoes across the body. Energy is being sent diagonally with every stroke rather than straight down the lane.

The OP has a very "wide" stroke under the water, and entering midline only accentuates that.

Enter at or just wide of the shoulders, send your energy directly down the lane in the direction of travel, and think about maintaining an anchor there and moving past it as you swim ... not about sweeping water from midline to wide.

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Master

2372

Subject: RE: Critique my swim pls

AdventureBear - 2012-01-06 3:27 PM Think about where you want your energy to go...straight down the lane or across the lane? Entering hands in the center when the shoulders are several inches wider creates a vector tha tgoes across the body. Energy is being sent diagonally with every stroke rather than straight down the lane.

His energy is going straight down - he is pretty clearly dropping the elbow and pulling down (he does also then start to pull outside of his body too far which also needs correcting). Honestly I would not worry about the kicking at the moment, but go straight to getting a proper pull in the water. OP can get a lot faster pretty darn fast with some good adjustments here.

Watch this video - particularly the second half where Dave talks about setting the elbow properly and how to achieve a good pull. This video (also Dave Scott) has a good drill (the middle one) that emphasizes the catch. I do that drill at every swim.

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Coach

9167

Stairway to Seven

Subject: RE: Critique my swim pls

sand101 - 2012-01-06 3:19 PM

AdventureBear - 2012-01-06 3:27 PM Think about where you want your energy to go...straight down the lane or across the lane? Entering hands in the center when the shoulders are several inches wider creates a vector tha tgoes across the body. Energy is being sent diagonally with every stroke rather than straight down the lane.

His energy is going straight down - he is pretty clearly dropping the elbow and pulling down (he does also then start to pull outside of his body too far which also needs correcting). Honestly I would not worry about the kicking at the moment, but go straight to getting a proper pull in the water. OP can get a lot faster pretty darn fast with some good adjustments here.

Watch this video - particularly the second half where Dave talks about setting the elbow properly and how to achieve a good pull. This video (also Dave Scott) has a good drill (the middle one) that emphasizes the catch. I do that drill at every swim.

My reply was mostly in regard to the suggestion of entering at the centerline. agree that stroke needs work, but more focus on streamlining forward and delaying his catch will really boost his forward progress if for no other reason than he gets his core into it.

Getting the timing and the shape of the catch correct could then follow. Working on thise in the wrong order still causes you to rely on arm strenght, rather than core to do the work.

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Subject: RE: Critique my swim pls

AdventureBear - 2012-01-06 4:27 PM Think about where you want your energy to go...straight down the lane or across the lane? Entering hands in the center when the shoulders are several inches wider creates a vector tha tgoes across the body. Energy is being sent diagonally with every stroke rather than straight down the lane. The OP has a very "wide" stroke under the water, and entering midline only accentuates that. Enter at or just wide of the shoulders, send your energy directly down the lane in the direction of travel, and think about maintaining an anchor there and moving past it as you swim ... not about sweeping water from midline to wide.

I really disagree, telling the OP to focus on having his hand enter wide of the shoulder is wrong. My original point was to try to make your stroke symmetrical, which it doesn't appear to be right now. Trying to focus on bring your left hand more towards center, similar to where your right hand is will help with that.

Coach

9167

Stairway to Seven

Subject: RE: Critique my swim pls

cgillin - 2012-01-06 8:37 PM

AdventureBear - 2012-01-06 4:27 PM Think about where you want your energy to go...straight down the lane or across the lane? Entering hands in the center when the shoulders are several inches wider creates a vector tha tgoes across the body. Energy is being sent diagonally with every stroke rather than straight down the lane. The OP has a very "wide" stroke under the water, and entering midline only accentuates that. Enter at or just wide of the shoulders, send your energy directly down the lane in the direction of travel, and think about maintaining an anchor there and moving past it as you swim ... not about sweeping water from midline to wide.

I really disagree, telling the OP to focus on having his hand enter wide of the shoulder is wrong. My original point was to try to make your stroke symmetrical, which it doesn't appear to be right now. Trying to focus on bring your left hand more towards center, similar to where your right hand is will help with that.

In front of or just wide of the shoulder. Center line entry is "crossover" even if you're not crossing over the midline. Having the arm fully ABducted means the hand is directly above (or in front) of the shoulder joint. move it out an inch for a little less pressure on the rotator cuff and an easier, more biomechanically friendly catch. When the arm is recovering out of the water, its in a similar position but fully ADducted. Keep your energy moving straight in line with the desired direction of travel.

Watch this vid @ 1:19. Even sun yang isn't perfectly symmetrical. But look at his right arm entry directly in front of the shoulder, with no wasted sculling movements side to side at full extension. He is perfectly straigth with his arm falling wide of the black line...his energy goes where he wants to go. When the left hand enters it enters slightly narrow then slides out wider before its directly in front of the shoulder at full extension.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvLO0wM7RSE

Width is even more important for tirathletes than pool swimmers as the arm width gives you lateral stability in waves & currents, keeps you stable when someone bumps you, and can even help "create space" for yourself when swimmign in a tight group. I'm not suggesting 6 inches wide, that would be just as bad as centerline. Newer swimmers entering in front of the shoulder seem to always default to sliding back towards the center. Overcompensating just an inch or two is a nice compromise that helps imprint better mechanics and less wasted energy.

Edited by AdventureBear 2012-01-06 10:11 PM

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Pro

6011

Camp Hill, Pennsylvania

Subject: RE: Critique my swim pls

Suzanne is right about erring on the side of a wider entry and stroke. In addition to the reasons she gave, a narrow stroke that "crosses over" needs to be avoided because it's one of the most common causes of shoulder injuries in swimmers. It can cause impingement even at fairly low training volumes.

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Master

1404

Saratoga Springs, Utah

Subject: RE: Critique my swim pls

TriMyBest - 2012-01-07 1:53 AM Suzanne is right about erring on the side of a wider entry and stroke. In addition to the reasons she gave, a narrow stroke that "crosses over" needs to be avoided because it's one of the most common causes of shoulder injuries in swimmers. It can cause impingement even at fairly low training volumes.

Not only this it also causes your body to fishtail or swing from side to side, increasing drag.

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Pro

6011

Camp Hill, Pennsylvania

Subject: RE: Critique my swim pls

gerald12 - 2012-01-07 2:36 PM

TriMyBest - 2012-01-07 1:53 AM Suzanne is right about erring on the side of a wider entry and stroke. In addition to the reasons she gave, a narrow stroke that "crosses over" needs to be avoided because it's one of the most common causes of shoulder injuries in swimmers. It can cause impingement even at fairly low training volumes.

Not only this it also causes your body to fishtail or swing from side to side, increasing drag.

Good point. A wiggle rather than a roll can cost a lot of speed.

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Member

39

Subject: RE: Critique my swim pls

It looks as though my recommendation has been debunked. The way I had been coached through college was to have an entry point at or slightly within shoulder width and pull to form half a key hole or '?' (I know s shaped pull is a big no-no and not really what I'm advocating, just more than a straight north to south pull). Since Bear first chimed in I tried pulling wider than my shoulders which I can't see how that can produce as much power as a pull closer to the body, but that seems to be the overwhelming consensus so go with it.

Critique my swim pls

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