TOTW Mdot IM are the only ones that count: T or F? (Page 2)

I need to set something straight:

There isn't a current at IM Louisville.  It's really just a lake swim in a nasty river.  I swam 55 mins at B2B and 1:24 at IM Lou.

Phat or anyone- Do you discount times from Florida and Arizona since they are flat and have very mild weather?

Also, Would folks be OK with a race that had a downhill bike course that shaved 1 hour off your bike time?

I am talking generally not in specific cases/years. the year they ran out of water and it was ridic hot at IMLOU was way harder than the year it was mild and overcast. delete the concept of asterisk, and insert the concept of SCALE OF STREET CRED. Every 140.6 is 140.6 miles. There is no doubt about that. Some are way harder and to me get more points on the scale of street cred.

Where I think we diverge is some here are talking about the original post (mdot vs indie) and some are talking about the rigor of the various 140.6's. Related but not the same concepts.

Don't come to me and tell me my IMAZ in Nov 09 with some cold early and winds midday was equal to the extreme sufferfest those IMLOU dogs had to tolerate.

glad to see this thread turned into M-dot love....the original question: M-Dot or it does not count?  Only one answer...140.6 is 140.6...you are an Ironman.  You can select a 140.6 race for lots of reasons.  M-dot have great marketing and generally put on good races, so they win the majority of the dollars.  it is America and they play the game better than most...for now.  But there is zero argument around M-dot counts more some how....that is just maddening to think that way

I think Phat needs to do Norseman before he can truly consider himself an Ironman. 

Back to the original topic...

Advantages of an M-Dot:

• Vibe- there is definitely a bit more swagger and nervous energy at a M-Dot race.
• One and Doner- If you only get one shot, it makes sense to be sure you do it right.
• BIG Expo with IM gear.
• It says "Ironman" on your shirt.  You just trained HARD for 6 months and suffered all day, so you don't want it to say just "Triathlon".
• Kona slots

Advantages of an independent:

• Cost- The race and hotels tend to be cheaper. 
• Vibe- The M-Dot vibe can be over the top.
• Ability to sign up late- Injuries and life happens.
• Less crowded- It can take forever to sign in, get in the water, etc. at an M-Dot with 2500+ racers.
• Better chance to podium- The fasties are all trying for Kona slots at the M-Dots.

I left off quality because I believe that is race specific.  B2B was very well run when I did it in 2009 and IM Lou was a bit of a mess in 2010 for example.

Did I miss any?

Makes no difference to me either way - every race is different, which makes them all equal in my mind. You show up on a given day, and race the course and conditions as they exist on that day with the group of folks that elected to show up. Trying to figure out which one is more or less "iron" than others seems pointless to some degree. To get a little closer to what (I think) Phat's original intention, I might ask a different question:

If you were to get an Mdot tattoo, would you have to do an WTC 140.6 race, or would you feel equally justified with one of the indie iron-distance races?

Coldfire-

What were the differences between B2B and IM FL?

Guys a food for thought question or statement along the topic of debate.  Would it not also be possible to say that no 140.6 distance really counts unless it is Kona.  If you cut through the debate and the difficulty levels and really look - to me either you say they all count or you can really only count Kona - as it is the top of the pack, the ultimate prize, and with all things considered on a hot day probably the hardest on a body from what I have read (hills, wind, heat, humidity and the fact that I hate salt water swims) .  Just throwing it out there. 

I think they all count but is simply an opinion from a old, slow, sore, and happy triathlete.  I hear great things on other races - b2b and even more so Silverman (if she comes back).  Matter of fact I have always heard silverman was the best as far as swag, volunteers, mood, and difficulty etc.  I must point out that I have done and registered for only wtc 140.6 events.  this is mostly because until this year they were the only ones that you did not have to train for in the summer.

I believe in a strict reading of the history of Ironman. In order to be an Ironman, one must not only complete the Waikiki Roughwater Swim (2.4 mi), the Around-Oahu Bike Race (115 mi) and the Honolulu Marathon (26.219 mi) ... you must finish first. "Whoever finishes first, we'll call him the Iron Man." ;-)

Those mdot races are just cheap imitations too, right?

so i type this long response and hit send, mozilla crashes and i said forget it when it came to retyping.

basically, i asked the TOTW question in a way to get the discussion going, but i really was asking how could i justify doing b2b with the downhill swim. in doing so, i figured out the street cred meter concept that helps me understand what i was concerned about.  of course, there is no way to quantify that street cred, but it offers alot of room for debate and argument which we like to do here in the forum (which is really cool compared to other state forums).

it really wasn't an mdot vs indie, as we all agree that 140.6 is 140.6. i say we move on to the next TOTW.

some street cred meter data:

http://sonic-convergence.com/irondata.html

His data isn't very accurate.

IM Wisconsin's run is way hillier than 400'

The water at Lou is around 84 degrees not low 70's

The water at LP was 80 this year not low 70's.

Those were a couple I noticed right off the bat.

I think you are going to have to come to grips with the fact that all races I do are tough and all races you do are easy.