Felt TTR3 Rims vs alternative

ok that eliminates my advice, but seriously i ride with those wheels and would also be interested in the responses

The question is what are you looking for (Raceday wheelset, trainer, or both)? I have the TTR3 wheelset as well as I can't afford a second set.  Dave from Felt stated that the TTR3's are just as fast as the Zipp 404 non FC.

"We just spent a great deal of time in the wind tunnel testing the TTR wheels against just about every other wheel (and tire combo) we could get our hands on. You assumption was correct, they aren't as fast as a Zipp 808. However, they are faster than every French and Japanese (Malaysian) wheel we brought with us. They are also faster than the alloy clinchers from Zipp.
I'm confident that they are the fastest alloy clinchers currently on the market from anyone" -Dave

If you are happy with the TTR3's as a training wheelset, just add race tires, tubes, and a wheel cover for race day! (This is what I did)  However,  if you want a new wheelset take a look at Flo.  Best bang for the buck.

Dave recommends "Bonty 19mm front, Veloflex 20mm record rear or GP4k RS" for the Felt Wheelset.

I think the TTR4 which is on the 2012 B16 is 10mm less than the TTR3's.  Yes, you can put a wheel cover on the Felt wheelsets.  I just received my cover from Wheelbuilder.com

Weight doesn't matter in triathlons.  Aerodynamics does.  If you are considering buying a more aero set of wheels, then you can play the game of "should you or shouldn't you".  For weight savings...don't even bother wasting your time.

Just look at the pro cyclists.  When time trialing, the opt for deeper and heavier wheels like a 80mm front and a disc rear instead of the wheels they road race on which are likely 700 grams lighter.

When I read the bolded...I think the Felt guy meant that they are faster than the Zipp 101's...which are 30mm deep all alluminum (no carbon fairing) clinchers....not the 404's clinchers, 808 clinchers, or their sub 900 disc clincher.

ETA:  I would agree with his statement though that the TTRs are likely the fastest aluminum (all aluminum...no carbon fairing) clinchers on the market because I don't think any other company designs an aluminum rim deeper than 30mm.

Dave for Felt - "I'm pretty sure I could repeatably get the TTR wheels to test better than a 404 if you allow me to select the conditions".  The OPTIMAL 404 set up was faster than the fastest TTR set up in our tests. Wouldn't it be great if I could honestly report otherwise?

However, Dave later noted that they went back and tested the Felt wheelset with different tire combos.

While this is true, it is all relative to how much heavier or how much more aero.

Felt TTR wheels weigh around 2200g or roughly 5lbs.

You could get a fairly cheap wheelset down to 1400g, which would shave off 2lbs and definitely help climbing. 

It all depends what you're looking for and how much you have to spend. Something like a Mavic Cosmic Carbone would shave off some weight and give you a better aero advantage and not break the bank.

Unless you're talking about carbon tubulars (I assume not because you mentioned fairly cheap), a 1400g clincher set will likely be 21-23 mm deep...which will cost you aerodynamically.  In a triathlon race, that aerodynamic loss will likely trump any savings while climbing with a 2 lb lighter wheelset.  Which goes back to Daniel's original statement.

the TTR3's are pretty dang fast, although not the fastest.

Pretty dang strong ...and pretty dang heavy.

If you want a terrific set of faster, lighter wheels, you couldn't go wrong with the Zipp 404FC's or the Hed Jet-6/9's.  But, you'll be paying a lot of money for a little more performance.  If you're in that position (you have the $ and you need those seconds off your time), then look there.  If you want a compromise- what is it that you want or are willing to give up?  Aero?  Weight?  Cost?  If you want to stick with something bombproof- consider the Hed H3's.  they also look really cool and are very aero.  close to the best, but not quite there.  A couple hundred grams lighter than the TTR3's.

there are more cost effective ways to spend money on speed.  Aero helmet- for instance.

Hmmmm: I do see some other items in your avatar photo that might be opportunities for weight reduction and improved aerodynamics.

Dude you just called me FAT... I want to throw that out there.. You said I was FAT... I am ok with it I have broad shoulders in case you couldn't tell and I can't agree with you more

I think I managed to get the answers I wanted from here. I live in a VERY flat area. Not many hills around here and most of the races I will be doing don't have anything more then a small rolling hill.

I totally agree dropping weight personally will help and I am working on that as much as I can.

I can't wear an aero helmet. When you are this wide they look so dorky. How effective are they if you wear them backwards. Because with my friends someone is going to down too many drinks and that is going to happen.

I appreciate all the input guys. I am sure there are better things I can spend my money on. I just wanted to know if the Aero of these rims out weighed (pun intended) the weight of the wheels. Really noticed it when I had another friends rim in my hands weight wise.

I am on a lonely base model Felt S32 and frankly the engine needs so much work it is the perfect bike for me.

The TTR3's are fine, raceable rims. They aren't the lightest or most aerodynamic, but they serve fine as race wheels until you can (or choose to) purchase nicer ones.

I have TTR2's (slightly lighter) and I use them on my road bike for training and racing crits and road races. I swapped the TTR2's with Jet 9's this past year mostly because my sponsor at the time gave me a great deal and I wanted a PT. I still take the TTR2 front in case I need a better rim for windy conditions or there is an issue with my Jet 9 front.

The latter...

But this is a good link that explains a lot about bike performance in general

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance

Great tips guys. A bit of a Tangent but what would a good 650 tire be to race on? It seems hard to find rubber for a small guy like me. Yes I just said that.

But honestly I find all kinds of data on tires and how they can contribute more. But none of these "faster" tires are out there in 650s.

As a dorky Engineer that is a perfect page for me... THANK-YOU so much.

I was thinking this from the beginning that the co-efficient of friction from the tires would be a lower cost more effective means to reduce resistance and help apply more power to the road. Goodness knows that I have enough wind resistance with my shoulder with and manly girth. I have a 44 inch chest and as big as I am.. that is pretty much all bone around the chest so I can't shrink in size very much there.

I am looking for other ways to be efficient.

Thanks again.

On a purely flat course(or more accurately, when no acceleration is involved), weight cancels out of the equations.  If you are climbing, then you must apply a vertical force to the bike equal to the force exerted by gravity to sustain your climb rate.  On level ground, the reaction force of the surface balances gravity therefore none of the power put into the drivetrain opposes gravity.  You will still have to generate sufficient power to overcome the aerodynamic drag and rolling resistance to maintain forward speed.  Hence, on a flat course during a TT environment, aero trumps weight.  The second you start doing significant climbing or accelerations (road race, criterium, draft legal), weight becomes a more critical factor.

Once you have accelerated to cruise on a TT, so long as you don't slow down or speed up, weight isn't an issue.  Wheels with higher moments of inertia can actually help you here as they will act like flywheels and retain that energy better (albeit at a higher power cost to accelerate).  That's why race wheels often "feel" easy to hold speed than training wheels.  There's a host of other factors like hub friction, but that's why bicycles are pretty complicated engineering problems at the fringe of performance.