Give me some swim stroke feedback (w/video)

Rotation rotation rotation. You gotta start rotating more!  This is great because it's an easy thing to correct.  Start over exaggerating the rotation.  Right now you are pushing twice the amount of water you need to be pushing through the water.  It is very evident when you watch the video from above the water.  In a perfect world, those elbows should almost point straight at the ceiling.

You are lifting up your head when you breath, sometimes a lot.  Head goes up and hips go down.  Momentary pause, then you have to speed yourself up again after bringing your hips back up.  Breath by rotating your head.  When you look left while standing you don't look up first, right?  Do the same when breathing.  Just rotate the head and breath.  

Kick should be more of a flutter coming from the hips.  Your's is a bit wide.  Keep your core nice and tight and use the glutes to kick.  Your butt should be sore after.

Overall you're doing well, keep up the good work and you'll improve in no-time.

I haven't watched the video yet but just wanted to say this is somewhere to start even without changing your stroke.  You *can* swim that fast so do it more often so that you do have the endurance.   

I'm going to get on the trainer but will watch the video after. 

Also...remember to breath all the way out and get a good solid breath in every time you breathe.  When you run you don't shorten your breath in and out do you?  Don't do it when swimming.  You'll see how much more "endurance" you have when you breathe deeper.

Good point.  There are times where I feel I'm breathing too shallow.  Also thanks for the feedback on the rotation.

Hmm, definitely great feedback.  I'm still trying to picture the timing piece, but I do agree that I always feel like I'm wasting a lot of energy and creating a lot of extra drag with my stroke.  I need to watch some more youtubes of good swimmers.  

elbows should be coming up more.  One of the drills from high school was dragging the back of your hand across your ears then putting them in the water.  Your breathing side looks way better than your non where you arm looks like it isn't coming out of the water very much and looks a bit late/out of synch.  This does have to do with rotation, but the key to rotation is you need to keep your body in a straight line so that you don't start the snaking effect that a lot of people have problems with.

hth.

fisherman76 - 2012-01-28 5:27 PM Ya, oops, you said experts. I'm no expert. I am a solid MOP guy, who can sprint his way to FOP in a short sprint, so my advice should be framed accordingly. Sorry for piping up, just got excited cuz I thought I could help!

All advice is accepted.  

What's funny is I read some swim tutorial about bending my wrist for my catch and I think i've turned it into just using my hand for my catch and almost eliminating the forearm.

So what I'm summarizing from everyone.

1.  Hold the top of my stroke longer. (Should I hold it until my second hand enters the water?)

2. Rotate a little more so my elbows are pointing up higher and don't lift my head out

3. little bit smaller kicks

So, I'm thinking my stroke timing and catch are where the majority of my speed loss/inefficiencies are.

I had this same problem of not extending and a coach had me drill which corrected it, fast. You might already do it but... on the glide phase hold one hand out in full extension, directly in front of your head (exaggerated movement), while the other does the pull, after the same arm is done with the pull it comes back to touch the other hand holding the glide phase, then the other goes. So basically you have one arm out in front at all times. 

Damnit after typing all that I found it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Si6VeAfluQ << Catch-up

I agree with the advice on your catch/pull - lots of slippage going on there.  I took a few screenshots.

Here is the start of your catch - not bad, not perfect but ok.

This is just two frames later.  Your elbow is way ahead of your hand and you can see the palm of  your hand almost pointing face down rather than fingers pointing down.  Losing tons of water there!

One last shot from the above water section.  When you take a breath your left arm crosses way across the mid-line.  I saw this several times in the various angles.

Overall there is nothing really bad about your stroke.  If you can get the catch and pull sorted out I think you'll see some great gains.

I was in your EXACT shoes about a year ago. Stuck at 2:00 for months, with no huge glaring stroke problems.

Got good news and bad news.

GOOD NEWS: Stroke isn't bad at all. Yes there are fixes that could probably yield a few seconds here like the rotation issue and the leg sloppiness, but I seriously doubt you'll be suddenly going 1:40s on the same effort with just form correction.

BAD NEWS: You are at the stage where you defiitely need to swim more, harder. It's a hard transition that I made not too long ago since starting to swim 2.5 yrs ago, and I had the same 'get stuck' at 2:00/100 phase you did.

Your rotation and catch will automatically improve as you improve power - I have seen this for myself firsthand going from 2:00 to 1:40 for T-pace. I seriously doubt you can teach a 1:40 stroke technique to a 2:00max physical ability swimmer - the physical strength and endurance required simply isn't there in that slower swimmer. The stronger you get, the better your form will get for a lot of the stroke.

Yes, you still need technique refinement, so keep watching videos and doing the drills above, but the bulk of your work should now be increasing volume and speed if you want to get down under 2:00. Embrace the pain - it's hard when you're starting out, but necessary. 

In terms of pure technique I think you would benefit from doing no-kick pull sets with a buoy to really isolate and balance the stroke. I suspect you'll be surprised with how challenging they are, and it'll allow you to get the upper body really balanced without a wide kick to stabilize. It'll also help you get the correct rotation going, although I'm pretty sure you'll find that the rotation is a natural outgrowth of the power/endurance building. I seriously doubt you can start 'rotating more' and drop even 1-2sec/100 - the rotation (or lack of) for me is more a sign of your power/endurance than technique especially at 2:00/100 pace. 

Okay, I'm not going to argue with AB here about rotation, but I still think higher elbows trying not to swing the arms would really help.  A little more rotation will also give you a longer reach in the water.

If you pause the video around 3:24 you can see the bending of the body and the lifting of the head I am talking about.  This is what is creating an angled body position where your feet fall slightly.  

Now that I watch the video again, there is a bit of a timing issue, but I think it's because your pull arm is just not getting a hold of that much water.  You sort of lead the pull with your elbow instead of grabbing a column of water with your forearm.  What I mean is that your elbow comes back first, and then your forearm follows.  Does that make sense.  I think agarose touched on that too.  If you pause it at 3:43 when your humerus are perpendicular to your body, you will see how far in front of your elbow your pull hand is.  At the point when your recovery hand is coming up toward your head, this is when you should start your pull and initiate body rotation from the core.  Look up the "catch-up" drill and try swimming with just fists and you'll realize how much you should be using your forearm to pull you through the water.  

Check out the elbows and the long reach and when he initiates the pull HERE.  No I don't think total immersion is the only way to swim, but it's a GREAT place to start.  Don't shoot me.

Oh no, not TI swimming...  ;-)

I do think your right on the elbows and rotation.  I could maybe work on my flexibility to get the elbows up more or rotate more, but they're definitely not symmetrical and should be higher.  I'm really going to study up on the entry timing and catch so I'm very grateful for all the tips you guys have given me.

I also think it's a combination of HTFU and technique.  I could certainly swim 2 hours a day 7 days a week and knock some time off my laps without changing my stroke, but I could fix my stroke and do the same and be that much faster.  So I plan to do a combination of both. 

Although not a bad suggestion, just be careful if you do this.  A beginning swimmer can end up with some seriously sore upper body parts and joints using paddles when they are not used to it.

Sure I agree, but it will only take a few lengths to get the idea, otherwise they will slip.