Boys Attack Cyclist Who Fights Back (Page 7)

I think it is pretty universally understood that youth represents promise and opportunity. Picking a arbitrary age is silly. There is a difference between a 15 year old with no real concept of consequences and adult level decision making, one that is still impressionable to do wrong and to do right as well, and that of an adult that has been going down the wrong path for a while and yet chooses to do nothing to change it. An adult criminal that has been given ample opportunity to correct his behavior. Pick what ever age you feel represents that.

The youth that is in the hospital might very well have been impressed enough to turn a different direction in his life.... or he may go back and brag to his friends and seek revenge... don't really know... but we would have a pretty good idea which one if he was mid twenties or 30s just out of prison for the forth time.

I prefer the correlation between number of pirates and global temperature

I think this is going pretty far afield of the original intent of the thread, but I'll play along and point out that Brown v. Board of Ed. was itself a reconsideration of the established doctrine of "separate but equal", which had been established 60 yeas earlier in Plessy v. Ferguson. And there are other things in the original constitution that we have as a society decided are no longer valid, such as the "right" to own slaves, the excluding of women and non-land holding men to vote. We decided at one point that alcohol should not be available and changed the constitution and then changed it back.

The founders intended the constitution to be living document. They knew that the rules under which they were living had been established in a different place and time, and were now unacceptable. It is inconceivable that they would have expected that the rules they set down would be forever valid - you are talking about educated enlightenment era men who believed that mankind's knowledge and understand of things would continue to move forward, and the governance of men should reflect this, as a system of governance by the consent of the governed.

This is obviously nonsense, and a complete reversal of the actual cause/effect. An increase in global temperatures is not caused by decrease in number of pirates - the number of pirates goes down when the temperatures go up. Because when it gets too hot, pirating is hard work out there on the high seas, and people want to stay inside with air conditioning. Duh.

It is a tragedy that someone died, but that person could have very easily been the cyclist.

There was a very similar incident in my neighborhood a few years ago, and it isn't one of the poorest areas in the country, but one of the richest. A 57 year old man was walking with his wife at 5 AM Sunday morning, and were attacked. He died, she barely lived. The attack was done by a group of 16-20 year olds, who had been on a robbery spree and picked these two as their last victims. They were caught and sentenced to life. It just sounds very similar to this incident, and I am not happy someone died, but can't help but be glad it wasn't the cyclist whose death we are talking about. Life is fragile, and the cyclist had every reason to fear for his life.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Neighborhood-Shaken-by-Bizarre-Murder-Mystery.html

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Alleged-Gang-Members-Arrested-in-Lansdowne-Murder.html

I would hope a 15 year old would have some idea of right and wrong... and can't imagine anyone regardless of age or circumstance thinking punching an old man is OK.

But surely you are not going to lecture me on how well a 15 year old comprehends their place in life and what impact the choices they make today are going to effect them 10-20-30 years from now or even next month. Most 15 year olds I know (including when that was me) think they are invincible, that nothing bad wil ever  happen to them, and can't even fathom what being a legal adult and a life behind bars actually means.

There was an incident here long ago that was very public and drawn out. Big case here. A 19 yo wrestler hot head decided to beat the crap out of an old man over a traffic incident. He was know to be be very volatile. He was from a "good" family and not in trouble with the law, but was known to be very violent.

The old man was also known for his antics. He would drive around carrying and instigating traffic problems. He would write down plates and call in people doing things he didn't like. He was known to be very confrontational in his little traffic vigilante life.

They pulled over. Young guy beat him up in his car. Left, turned around, and came back for more. Shot in the chest with a .44. Ruled self defense once the guy came back a second time. It was such a shame because the old guy was not "innocent". He trolled for trouble and he found it. Even though yes I understood the self defense.

But what  I took away from that is how in the world could anyone beat up a elderly person? I mean how in the world does beating the crap out of a frail defenseless person make you anything? People suck.

I have two sons, 15 and 19. Both are bright, well-behaved, and have never been in trouble. But if I had a dollar for every time their mom and I threw out hands up and said "what are you thinking?" we'd be retired

It's the degree to which kids make poor decisions that is directly related to upbringing. Kids do dumb things, it's part of the growing up. But the checks and balances that come from good moral values are definitely learned from their parents. You can argue that divorce creates the situation but I do not believe that. I believe the parents simply don't care or their value system is equally as corrupt. Yes, these kids are responsible for their actions. But an event like this was years in the making.

Agreed Sharyn... does no good for me to speculate the other direction either. We just don't know. People most certainly grow up in different "surrounding" and not everyone has the same boundaries.

I want to believe too... I am already too cynical and jaded in other areas of my life ... I would hope something good can come of this. Does not excuse anything, but I can't help but feel for the Mother that tried to do something that day, but not enough, and now has to be "The Mom" of the kid that beat up an old man and got killed.

I can accept that Brian. I was doing things when I was young, but also had a line I would not cross. My parents had some strikes against them that the statistics say I should have grown up in a much worse life than I had. But my parents had this weird moral road block in them too and did much better than was done to them. Sometimes parents do the best they can with what they have. Sometimes it's good, sometimes not. Ya, when your PO comes and puts a bracelet on you and you say screw it any way... lot's of things wrong there.

This whole thing is weird for me. My wife has a son that was 12 when we got together. He was off the hook. We had a lot of tools at our disposal. We did everything we could, even putting him in the system... he still did what ever he wanted which led to some very severe consequences.  It was tough. Sometimes you just can't make people act right. Happily he is doing better these days.